Are there any noxious fumes from epoxy glue (Araldite)?

Today I spent several hours filling some cracks with a mix of Araldite epoxy (the garden variety I think - 2x 100ml tubes, blue and white) and saw dust. Not particularly demanding work, certainly compared to some work I've been doing lately, but I was bent over the cracks to get a good view, and therefore in close proximity of the glue for quite some time.

This afternoon I was far more tired than I was on other days doing heavier and more demanding work, so I just wonder if there are any fumes to watch out for? I couldn't smell anything, but that may not there are no fumes (and my sense of smell is pretty good - actually very good for a smoker - I can smell better than a lot of non-smokers).

The ventilation was excellent - I was right next to a roller door that opens to outside.

Would not surprise me at all.
If you can smell it, something is coming off and it is not air.

I worked with Araldite for 3+ years, every week, it seemed (PhD/Botany/LaTrobe/'72)
I am still carrying a contact dermatitis such that I can't use expoxies at all.
I get a horrible hand rash which takes 2+ weeks to settle down.
Every year I try again and it hasn't gone away!

An interesting side note to this is that fair-skinned people are the most sensitive.
East Indians and African Americans are apparently immune to the stuff.

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

I couldn't smell anything

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Have you checked the MSDS sheet Brett, the shop must provide it if you ask for it and mandatory if you are a business....

https://go.lupinsys.com/duluxgroup/h...2%9C%93&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c31587fea&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c3152f910&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c3154f673&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c31506c1c&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c3155cf80&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c31542601&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c31572259&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c31540212&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c3152d737&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c3155c06a&groups[]=ed7a9be7c05577a9db6d288c315635e9&

I don't know about Araldite, but the MSDS for most epoxies tell you to use in a well-ventilated area. I was taught that the fumes can be harmful, and that you can get contact dermatitis, as per RV's comment.

I note your comment about not being able to smell anything, but that doesn't mean fumes aren't there. You can't see radiation either.

Edit: Just checked the Araldite MSDS. It warns you to use in a well-ventilated area, and gives instructions for treatment after exposure. It's on the Dulux site, under Selleys MSDS.

A problem with products like araldite is your nose may pick up the odour initially but may rapidly become desensitised to it so you can no longer smell it.
It makes me nauseated and it lasts for 2-3 days after exposure.
At work we had to work with epoxies in a fume hood.

Yeah, well that's very nice for now.
Hindsight is 20/20 and there were no such things at all as MSDS
back in that day and time.
Most MSDS are based on medical descriptions of stuff that went wrong.

Same as in Canada in the licencing applications for pyrotechnics by
Natural Resources Canada/ Explosives Regulatory Division.
I hold pyrotechnician cards both for commercial and for stage/TV/movies.

We got an urgent safety application notice advising us that it was
bad form to tie up Christmas presents with detonation cord.
To this day, I still wonder what brought that on.

"Have a Holly, Jolly Christmas. . . . " WHAM!

The MSDS advises not to ingest it in volume or store it with explosives or radioactive materials.

That could be the problem.

In a word YES. The reaction between two compounds creates heat and thus gas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

..... but I was bent over the cracks to get a good view, and therefore in close proximity of the glue for quite some time......

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:gaah:

Way too close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

..... This afternoon I was far more tired than I was on other days doing heavier and more demanding work.......

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Result of glue sniffing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robson Valley

....

We got an urgent safety application notice advising us that it was
bad form to tie up Christmas presents with detonation cord.
To this day, I still wonder what brought that on.

"Have a Holly, Jolly Christmas. . . . " WHAM!

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Amazing.

If you want noxious fumes, try three week old hide glue....

I remember the last place I worked. Had to make rectangular casings out of kwila to go around poles ( I think that what it was for)

I was told I had to rip the boards up from larger sticks, depite my objections, because thats all there was to use. The objection was that the larger sticks would spring up like bananas straight off the saw. And they did. So ended up have to glue up 'V' like canals out of these boards that where all over the place all by myself. Had to force like 3metre odd long pieces into into position with epoxy (West system I think). I couldn't wear gloves because I had no grip, so for a few days I had epoxy all over me trying to lock these things in position. Would have been cheaper and cleaner to just dress them flat properly in the first place or use a different timber all together. But I guess it wasn't available. Anyway, felt nauseous the whole time. Had to use meth to get it off. Felt not myself for a few days after. Ill. My progress was slow, so when the boss came back to show me how to do it, he showed me how 'it should have been done' …with one of the few pairs of timber that weren't sprung badly. Putting on a show for his apprentices.

Thats one of the reasons I like using Hide glues. The stuff stinks, but probably won't lead to cancer(I'm guessing) like epoxy might.

Just an opinion. Not an expert on epoxy, cancer, bosses, apprentices, springing kwila. 2 cents worth.

Whenever I have had a need for epoxy glue over the last couple of years, I have used Bote-Cote. It is a very slow-acting substance, usually taking around 24 hours to fully harden. I have never had any ill effects from it. Reading the entries in this thread made me surmise that the very slow reaction time might be a safety feature. If you apply your glue, and go do something else for the next 24 hours or so, you are unlikely to receive much in the way of fumes. (Assuming, of course, that the job in question can wait that long for completion).

This was a slow drying version of Araldite Mike - not fully hard for 3 days they say, but able to be sanded after about 16 hours.

Epoxies contain various classes of compounds including organic epoxides, isocyanates, aromatic amines or acrylates and many others. They are allergens and potentiate the activity of other allergens, for instance exposure to epoxy and rosewood dust can make you allergic to rosewood even if you haven't had problems with rosewood before. The amines are also carcinogenic. Some epoxies also contain bisphenol A which is an endocrine (immune system) disruptor. A notorious example is toluene diisocyanate which is well known to be a direct irritant, an allergen and an allergic potentiator. TDI is also encountered in paints, especially those used on automobiles. Here is a study with safety recommendations: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805421/

Thanks Rob, I can believe it.
In the Melbourne lab, the individual components for Adaldite were purchased in 1 liter cans.
Rhere would be a mixing-day and the lot was subdivided and frozen.
Unfortunately, that wasn't even done in a fume hood.
The catalysis rate was set for 60C for 8+ hours in a small low temp heated oven/box.
That gave us all sorts of open working time with specimens.
I don't recall needing more than 50ml per week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mspil

Reading the entries in this thread made me surmise that the very slow reaction time might be a safety feature. If you apply your glue, and go do something else for the next 24 hours or so, you are unlikely to receive much in the way of fumes. (Assuming, of course, that the job in question can wait that long for completion).

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I agree with this. hot weather speeds up reaction time. When I got sick from it, the weather was hot, and there was a lot of epoxy to spread in poor joinery. ie. I was constantly around the glue up for many hours. Couldn't leave to do something else.

It must be understood that ALL epoxies produce toxic fumes of some sort in the curing process.

Some are worse than others...some very much worse.

The real problem is that the results may not be immediate or particularly intense.

All epoxies should be used in very well ventilated areas ( moving air) when used in volume...like a big fan at your back.

If you are mixing a spot of epoxy on the back of a matchbox, its hardly going to be a serious incident.

but if you mixed up half a litre of the same epoxy and spread it about...there will be lots of fumes evolved.


The MSDS will never give you the full picture. and mostly downplay the hazards...yeh I know.

Problems that can come from epoxy include
.
Asthmatic like reactions
skin rashes
twiches....particularly in the face
dull nausia
dull to pronounced headaches
a vague but presistent feeling of being unwell...chronic fatigue.


All the above may not appear straight away..may take hours or days to develop after exposure.
AND they may persist for very long times days, weeks or even months.

then there are the long term effects.

long term sensitisation....and not just to epoxy...exposure to epoxy can make you sensitive to all sort of chemicals...or mess with your immune system and make normal elergic reactions worse or where you did not have them before.

With long term exposure and cetain epoxies promotion of cancer, respiratory and circulatory problems and messing with your DNA.



Many of the modern epoxies are far and away better than those of the past......but they all deserve respect.


If typical normal solvents are equated to a bloke who will walk up to you and smack you straight in the face.

Epoxy is the bloke who will sneak into your room at night while you are asleap and poke you with a rusty pin every night for a year.

cheers

I think that what got to me, using Araldite (apollogy's for the speeling), was the occasional (?) skin contact that was not
cleaned off immediately. I don't think that "fumes" were the issue but they might have been.
The 60C curing oven sat in a fume hood which was never shut off.
But, we mucked with the stuff, daily, on the bench. Beakers of it.

Just assume that all epoxies in all their mixed formula glories are really nasty short.
The silence of manufacturers proves dick-twiddly.
It isn't water or wine or whiskey.

Both fumes and skin contact can cause reactions and toxin transfer.

BTW..and this is standard polocy with epoxy.

if you get it on your skin..it is not recommended to use solvents to get it off.

The recommendation is acid :o......vinegar or citric.

There are several citrus bassed hand cleaners that work pretty damn well on uncured epoxy..and a number of other things BTW.

Setone citri-scrub is what I keep these days.

typical solvents will actually mobilise the toxins and allow them to transfeer across the skin barrier far more easily.

gloves, long sleves, and long trousers are recommended.

A mate went and did some eboxy work on a little stich and glue boat.....I warned him.....told him the brand of epoxy to use..warned him to cover up.....but did he listen.....

Anyway..he worked with tis stuff an hour or so for about 3 days running.....a couple od day later his legs broke out in this rash...that only started to fade after about 2 months.......I told ye...I told ye.

cheers

soundman: reads that safety considerations have made positive progress in the 40+ years since I puddled around with Araldite.
It is the embedding medium of choice for biological specimen sectionsto be examined in an electron microscope.
About all we knew at the time was that very fair-skinned users were far more sensitive than workers with typical dark, African skin colors.