after reading "understanding wood" i feel even more confused about finding the grain direction. i usually use a combination of the options, but want to know how you like to do it. :confused:
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after reading "understanding wood" i feel even more confused about finding the grain direction. i usually use a combination of the options, but want to know how you like to do it. :confused:
I never understand what the fuss is about, it always runs parallel with the smooth face surfaces.
It's a function of how the fibres are compressed during manufacture.
This is true whether the boards are melamine faced or just plain old MDF.
Cheers,
P
:D :D :D
I usually eyeball it and try and determine the grain direction that way based on growth rings. But if that doesn't work I go for planing and if I get tear out then flip the board.
So a combination of 1 and 4.
I learnt how to pick the grain in a joinery but that was mainly with one or two types of timber. You do get a feel for it after awhile but I still plane things the wrong way regularly. Then there's the curly grain timbers that reverse direction every inch or so.
I run my finger along the edge face.. IF I get a splinter, the grain is running the OTHER way :o
Like Brudda I usually take a good look and then run my hand in the direction I think best.
Every now and then I am wrong and a repeated visual inspection results in a confused "buggered if I know". The direction of planing without tearout has the final say.
Like Silent said, curly grain is always a challenge with the plane having to be twisted and turned along with the grain. That's when a scraper comes into it's own.
I do feel sorry for the power only people who must find it difficult or impossible to work with tricky grained timbers. Maybe they have techniques to overcome these problems such as drum sanders etc
working mainly with burl, I gave up long ago worrying about direction of grain :D
I try looking first, if that's not enough, I wet a bit of the surface & run my finger over it, if I still can't tell, try planing & see which direction rips out least & if all else fails, use a scraper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan
Just on scrapers, I always thought a scraper was a scraper, but I've given the veritas one that came with the burnisher a fair workout on some purpleheart & am convinced that it holds its edge longer.
If I can see triangle-like patterns, I imagine these resulting from a slice through a cone. I then imagine which way the cone must lie in relation to the surface of the wood based on the direction of curvature on the endgrain. That tells me which way the grain is pointing, and which way to plane. (Does this make *any* sense at all?) Can post pic if there's interest.
Then there's all the other techniques. Usually still get it wrong 50% of the time, which is the same success rate as chossing a direction at random (!). It's a bugger of a thing.
I'm in the middle of making a box out of mahogany, which seems to conspire to have the grain running all over the place, even though it looks straight. I might have to break out the scapers.
So you are looking at the figure Zen? in my (admittedly limited) experience the grain runs counter to the figure about 25% of the time in hardwoods. or are you looking at something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by zenwood
It doesn't matter, I everything seems to go against the grain.
Here's the promised pic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanarcher
Also, just found this:
http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...grainindex.htm
which alludes to the same technique (and I'd thought I'd come up with something new). The side has a usefule mnemonic:
on the heart-side, the flames point in the planing direction
on the other side, it's the opposite.:cool::confused::cool:
Thanks Zen! that's a good technique for flatsawn boards. I think that looking at the edge and always planing "uphill" will give the same result most of the time. what if the board is quartersawn? what about edge planing? and quite often the rays and figure don't run in the same direction. :(
When I'm not using MDF, it's mostly been Douglas <STRIKE>Wood</STRIKE>Fir(Oregon) and I think it's fair to say the grain of the hard bits and the soft bits runs in opposite directions!! It may not be true, but it's fair.
I've found the same with lots of softwoods, WRC and Surian Cedar are two that come to mind.
This is different to the gnarly bits in hardwood, and while I don't claim to have much experience in the hand treatment at all, with my new-found plane collection, I have:
Taken a light pass on the jointer and/or thicknesser.... that sorts out direction pretty quickly! After that if feeding it the right way causes more grief, it's through the belt sander @120 grit, followed by a very light hand plane, or even a blast with the ROS.
The MidgenFang gave me no end of grief with the spoke shave on the curvy bit, no matter which direction I came from, but that was easy to fix with the 1" sanding belt, followed by a bit of a scrape with the neck of a broken bottle.
It's an old trick I learnt from my old man, and I'm curious given his lack of patience in the finishing area, as to why he did it, perhaps it was the most expedient way of rounding off edges, but I always keep an odd lot of broken glass around for getting into strange shapes.
Cheers,
P :D
Funny...I keep an odd lot of bottles around for me to get into strange shape.:D esp. on Fridays.Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
Best clues to planing face I think is to sight along the edge and see which way the fibres are angled....usually can pick where its going to tear before trying with most timbers.....either with, against, or don't know(cheeky looking fibres that look parallel to face but who knows).......so sometimes it reverses such that you have to plane in different directions......so, I sight, mark the face where it changes so you can rise out of a pass just before you hit the reverse.....etc..........then hit the reversing parts with scraper of sorts.......scraping plane probably best, though I usually just use a card.........or make it simple and just use the scraping plane from the start.........??????????.....still , unless your timbers obviously of quality, theres a degree of trial and error to it ,, I reakon.
I also look at the end and plane uphill and use a combination of figure/growth rings. As woodborer said every now and then it doesn't work, then you turn in the opposite direction and presto! Who am I to argue with wood? ;)
I found that certain hardwoods are a little schizophrenic in terms of grain and I tend to use the Mujis on these, if still not a getting anywhere and a scraper doesn't help I just give up and put it through the thicknesser and then sand it like theres no tomorrow :o
yehh.....I know what you mean :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by routermaniac
We-e-e-llll. I have a bit of a look at the side of the workpiece. If the grain is running uphill in any obvious direction, that's where I points me plane!
However, since I'm mostly using jarrah and the Spirit of the Jarrah is a wayward and tricky beastie, this doesn't always work. Soooo, as soon as it becomes apparent that a stuff-up has manifested itself, I turn the workpiece around and have a go in the other direction.
When, as often as not, this proves to be equally problematic (ie: Bloody Hell! :mad: ), the scraper comes out and the old barbecued thumb scenario is on the agenda.
Sometime around about now*, my dear wife is inclined to make an appearance and ask: "Why are you using all that bad language?"
Woodworking's good, innit? :D
Col
* By this time, I have customarily tried every single plane I possess and they are arranged in random order all over the bench, shelves, assembly table, Workmate and any other available space.
I've read all these confangled ways to read the grain and it all seems like a hell of a lot of bullsh to me. Feel it - if it's running in a predominant direction you can feel it. It its curly you won't and then use the smoother with the finest sharpest/finest shave you can get and work out from there where you need to go :confused:
Jamie
Like it......don't hold back mate..... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by barnsey
Let's go back to basics: the fibres in wood are formed in concentric cylindrical layers and run parallel to the axes of these layers. In order to avoid tearout, we need to plane in the direction where the wood fibres make an acute angle with the surface that we are planing. In the diagram below, the appearance of the grain on the top surface is virtually identical. But the key to which way to plane is the end-grain. In the board on the right, the growth rings are basin shaped, or, in geological terms, synclinal, on the end grain, so the wood fibres are sloping upwards towards the right-hand end, and the planing direction is from left to right.
In the left-hand board, the growth rings are arched, or anticlinal, on the end grain, so the wood fibres slope upwards towards the left-hand end, and the planing direction is from right to left.
The planing direction on the edge of the board is trickier to determine, but when you see the growth rings forming a triangle on the top surface, edge, and end grain, as they do on the left-hand board, you plane towards the apex of the triangle.
Rocker
I think your right......but how often do you come accross timber like this in practise........rarely for me at least.......unless your willing to pay $10 + per mitre for it.......It comes in so many different ways.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocker
Agree with apricotripper, at least with the crappy wood I come across (read recycled everything :o ), things just aint that simple ;)
When running lots of timber through a thicknesser you often don't have a lot of time to judge the best way for it to go through. I would just have a quick look at the way the fibres were laying on the timber.
It all depends on the type of timber as well. 75% of the time I would get it right with straight grained timber but with curly grained timber then the success rate was very low.
Daniel
Apricotripper,Quote:
Originally Posted by apricotripper
As you say, my description of grain direction was an over-simplification, and is more applicable to straight-grained softwoods; in many Australian hardwoods the wood fibres do not grow straight up the bole of the tree; in many cases they spiral up it, and are sometimes wavy, giving curly texture, or interlocked. In these cases, there is no 'right ' direction for planing, and the only way to attempt to avoid tear-out - if that is possible at all - is to increase the angle between the plane's blade and the wood surface.
Rocker
Rocker my enlightened friend, that was very astute. are you succumbing to the power of the sith?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocker
Read a hint somewhere about wiping a smooth surface with a tissue, apparently small tufts of tissue will catch on grain whiskers when you are wiping against the grain.
Could be worth a try.
Cheers...............Sean, tissue, bless you :)
Makes sense.....I like it.......could be helpful when you just want to make just a couple of final finishing passes on timber and its already too smooth to pick up the direction by touch......that happens to me sometimes after glue up when I notice something that I missed earlier but all the markings I've made have been removed so I've forgotten which way the grains going.......now all I gotta do is remember it .at the right time :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter