The bitter disappointment of Australian online businesses

Oh, Aussie businesses, let me count the ways.

When the inevitable downturn occurs, your doom is not only inevitable, but of your own self making. There was once a Seinfeld episode where he booked a car after a flight. He arrived at the counter to get said booked car, but it wasn't there. So sorry they say. Its a classic, for he said "you can TAKE the reservation, but you cant HOLD the reservation".... https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=4T2GmGSNvaM

This is the modus operandi of Australian business and especially those online. They can say "here is the thing for sale", they just cant SHIP the thing for sale.

Now, before I get shot down and people say, "but, there are plenty of good examples"... let me demonstrate EVERY purchase I've made this week online (it is 11.30am Thursday):

* AUS BUS: Paslode Air nailer. Ordered Tuesday morning. Still not shipped. Email apologising and still farting around... no idea WHEN though.
* AUS BUS (another): Nails for Paslode gun: So sorry out of stock, will take FIVE days minimum before we can ship
* TUES: inquired about 32mm MDF from local supplier via email. No response
* MON: inquired about specialty pinboard material. No response.
* MON: inquired about Hoop Pine from another local company. No response.
* FRI, MON and TUES: A paint supplier. Local. Email, forms. NO response to any of the three inquiries.

On the converse, my international experience:
* HK BIZ: Ordered printer cartridge Monday night. Arrived Wednesday arvo.
* HK BIZ: Ordered printer drum Monday night. Arrived Wed Morning
* Amazon: Ordered "certain tool" consumables Monday. Arrived this morning. FROM THE US! (un-be-lievalbe!!!!)
* HK Biz: Ordered 6 gas struts on eBay. Shipped Monday, arrived this morning. Same model here: $33.40....EBay, $2.97 (yes, identical model!)
* US based Big Wood co: Ordered router bits Tuesday, shipped SAME DAY (but not yet received, but they were shipped)

I've ordered a lot over the last week online as I cant get out. A big operation has knocked me low for a bit. My take on Aussie businesses online? THEY ARE RUBBISH. They can provide forms and emails and ordering systems, but they cant be F*$%%N BOTHERED even responding - OR SHIPPING.

I am not talking of the guys who advertise here. They are exceptional and truly seem to be the exception. SMALL biz is definitely worth patronizing. However, for the others, I would love to NAME NAMES but it goes against the boards policy, but these are very real.

What an utterly infuriating process dealing with these AUSSIE BUSINESSES.

The whinging and whining and complaints to government for protectionism and bailouts will soon start in earnest when consumers get totally sick of this unrelenting apathy.

It's not just online.

I tried to purchase a BS blade on line from a well known WW store - payment failed at CC entry - "sorry the number of your credit cards starts with XXXX which means it is not one of our required cards please use another card".
The card was a VISA which is one of their accepted cards.
OK ring Perth store, they say I have to ring Brisbane to sort the CC problem.
Meanwhile I ask them if they have the blade in the store, they have none in stock but can get them in within 2 days - will call you when they arrive - so I ask them to do so and will come in to pick up.

I also send an email via the website to flag the CC problem - less than an hour later I get a call and they apologise - glitch on the website but can they take my order over the phone, I said thanks but have already placed an order with the Perth store
5 days later still no call so I call the Perth store but they don't know about any order - will have to order again.
15 minutes I get a call back saying it will take a week to get them in.

Overall my experience with them has been mixed but I have to say that lately it has been all poor.

Neighbour and I drove the half hour, Saturday before last, to sight a new wood heater for the refurb of an old cottage I'm doing/organising for her...
just needed to get a idea of it's visual "weight" and get comfortable that it will fit into the existing fireplace and look right.

Once there we established that it did have a rear flue ability as well, even better for us...the only unknown was how far forward the rear exit into an elbow would throw the unit...(we're running the flue up an existing brick chimney), so whilst there I emailed to the fellow a photo of the hearth, with my mobile number and he wrote my number on the book with a promise to call back on the Monday.
We agreed the cost at $1800.00 so all I needed with the depth of the elbow...To date NO phone call...
A guaranteed sale, right in front of them, gone begging... If they had the size of the flue to hand we would have given them a cheque right then...

I've had two online dealings recently. One with Timberbits that was absolutely perfect and the other with a telco.
The latter had the excuse of the month. I'd been emailing them daily for about ten days with no real response. then they rang up to ask how things were going. i mentioned the email correspondence and was told that they had been getting a lot of it and were trying to catch up on the backlog.:C

Cant speak on behalf of other Aussie businesses as i usually by from overseas but as far as CWS and Timberbits go. amazing! fantastic bunch of guys running these businesses.

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Originally Posted by delbs

Cant speak on behalf of other Aussie businesses as i usually by from overseas but as far as CWS and Timberbits go. amazing! fantastic bunch of guys running these businesses.

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Couldn't agree more.

On the 12th Jan ordered and paid for an item for my daughter from an Aussie online store.

Item not delivered after two weeks. Rang the customer support number. Got a lovely girl there and she said the online purchasing supervisor would ring me back.

No phone call. Rang again a few days later......same story and ......hello....same result.

Since then I have rung the on 2 futher occasions and .....hello...same result.

Now in a big bum fight with them over $95......pick on me is not a very good way of doing business....

The item was paid for by a company credit card.... now you can see where this is going.....got the directors names of this online company and they are about to get a bad credit rating.

Its the same with these companies that set up their website with the only means of getting in touch with then is via an online enquiry form to which their response can take lots of days or you don't hear from them at all.

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Originally Posted by rod1949

Its the same with these companies that set up their website with the only means of getting in touch with then is via an online enquiry form to which their response can take lots of days or you don't hear from them at all.

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A shame!!!! I say it's a bloody disgrace!!!

I ordered a camera on Dec 14th from a certain Australian electronics and furniture store that is always complaining that people buy from over seas. Nermerous phone calls and emails later (during which you are made to feel like you are a harassing customer) They had lost my original order. (Required many phone calls cos all the outlets are franchises so don't know what anyone esle is doing.) They are now out of stock of what I ordered. Decide to give me another more expensive version. Terrific. Now already more than a month since I ordered it. Someone puts the wrong address on the new order. Package goes around and around. More phone calls and emails. I finally got it yesterday. More than 3 months later. Still feel like they blame me for all the problems. :C I'll not be trying that again soon.

Meanwhile got about 6 other packages of various things from OS that I could not even get in Australia any way.

First time I've dealt with this company, but very happy their service, ordered on their eBay site very late Tuesday nite or early hours Wednesday and received the item lunchtime today.

http://www.gotstock.com.au

I sent an enquiry about a Harvey Table Saw and I'm sill waiting for a reply. I'm glade there are two distributors of this saw so guess who is not getting my business.:D:D

SB

Don't do much online shopping, mainly for the reasons given above. However, I regularly buy online from the Sandpaper Man and Boxmakers Brass, and have had good service from both.

I observe that the large part of your general difficulties stems from your less that critical mass
for online economics. All your wannabe businesses have no opportunity for the quantities of hits
that grease the wheels. Consequently they stumble.
In part, because they don't know how to behave on line.
In part, because they have so little mainstream internet experience.
In part, because you are stuck with a marginal traffic flow.

In their heart of hearts, they are absolutely aware of the fact that they have you by the
"short and curlies". I see that you have little choice in the marketplace.

I lived in Melbourne for 4 years.
That was long enough to gain a sense of the economics
that businesses enjoyed crippling for the consumers.

timberbits what very good service, i orderd 50 pen fancy pen mechanisms on monday at 330pm they arrived on my door step in deloraine tas at 10am tuesday, morning the 24th:2tsup::2tsup:, try dealing with telstra NBN it is unbeliveable never had so much trouble,Trying to change a plan so far it has taken 26 days and counting so far,:no::no:

There should be a law in this country that prohibits an item being put up for sale on a website that is not available for immediate shipment (read, in stock) unless otherwise stated. It is 2014 and a simple computer system can tell these things. Even some of our larger companies are simply a little backward when it comes to these matters. Online shopping has been around for 20 + years now. So they are simply stupid or unethical.
My tuppence worth.
Les

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Originally Posted by lesmeyer

There should be a law in this country that prohibits an item being put up for sale on a website that is not available for immediate shipment (read, in stock) unless otherwise stated. It is 2014 and a simple computer system can tell these things. Even some of our larger companies are simply a little backward when it comes to these matters. Online shopping has been around for 20 + years now. So they are simply stupid or unethical.
My tuppence worth.
Les

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My partner has found some companies on E-bay like this; they list a particular item but then tell you it's "out of stock and won't be in for 3 weeks, would you like a refund?" Then they re-list it.... at a higher price. We report these companies to E-bay and always check the negative feedback for signs that this has happened before.

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Originally Posted by lesmeyer

There should be a law in this country that prohibits an item being put up for sale on a website that is not available for immediate shipment (read, in stock) unless otherwise stated. It is 2014 and a simple computer system can tell these things. Even some of our larger companies are simply a little backward when it comes to these matters. Online shopping has been around for 20 + years now. So they are simply stupid or unethical.
My tuppence worth.
Les

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I believe state consumer protection law already does this. Difficulty is that a customer in Vic buying from Qld has to complain to Qld Consumer protection Dept and guess what, why should they do much, their Minister only cares about Qld voters.

Because of my remote location I buy a huge amount of stuff online and have done so for a good many years, mostly with Australian suppliers.
My experience has been positive with excellent delivery times and service, and the few times it has gone wrong it has been sorted out quicklly with followup phone calls and emails to keep me in the loop. Overall I have no complaints with the Australian online sellers I have dealt with.

Where I have the most trouble and frustration is dealing with Telco's and Government Departments. Now these guys really know how to make you want to bang your head against the wall.

I posted a form to my local council last Tuesday, I received by post the letter telling me the action taken, on Thursday. If local government can do it...

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Originally Posted by tea lady

I ordered a camera on Dec 14th from a certain Australian electronics and furniture store that is always complaining that people buy from over seas. Nermerous phone calls and emails later (during which you are made to feel like you are a harassing customer) They had lost my original order. (Required many phone calls cos ..........

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Careful, Anne-Maria, you're not allowed to mention the whingeing billionaire's name.




Fair Winds

Graeme

Not woodworking related, but I had that with L####r where the item was listed as available and they didn't tell me it wasn't until they had taken my money. The technology is available. If you can't hook your inventory management into your e-commerce site then have processes in place for putting up "Low stock" warnings on the site at the very least.

And don't get me started on telcos … had a horrible experience with ███ last year; 25 emails back and forth not including with the TIO and more than eight phone conversations lasting a total of several hours not to mention the distraction of having to deal with it daily for over a month before they finally relented and refunded my money (without an apology or acknowledgement of being at fault).

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Originally Posted by BRADFORD

Where I have the most trouble and frustration is dealing with […] Government Departments. Now these guys really know how to make you want to bang your head against the wall.

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Please rest assured there are plenty of people on the inside trying to make things better!

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Originally Posted by Heavansabove

I posted a form to my local council last Tuesday, I received by post the letter telling me the action taken, on Thursday. If local government can do it...

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I doubt anyone on my local council elected representatives can read much less care about rate payers.

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Originally Posted by NathanaelBC

Please rest assured there are plenty of people on the inside trying to make things better!

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Ronald Reagan: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

I'm sure you are a nice chap, but the idea that the government, or it's employees, can offer to make things "better" is simply wrong. The government cannot help, it can only take resources, taxes and time off people and businesses by force.

The government can only "help" by spending or squandering these extracted resources in an entirely uncompetitive manner.

I have no love for businesses that waste my time or their own resources, but that is entirely to their detriment. But for a government to do so, is criminal.

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Originally Posted by BRADFORD

Where I have the most trouble and frustration is dealing with [.......] Government Departments. Now these guys really know how to make you want to bang your head against the wall.

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in reply:

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Originally Posted by NathanaelBC

Please rest assured there are plenty of people on the inside trying to make things better!

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and your rant:

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Originally Posted by Evanism

Ronald Reagan: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

I'm sure you are a nice chap, but the idea that the government, or it's employees, can offer to make things "better" is simply wrong. The government cannot help, it can only take resources, taxes and time off people and businesses by force.

The government can only "help" by spending or squandering these extracted resources in an entirely uncompetitive manner.

I have no love for businesses that waste my time or their own resources, but that is entirely to their detriment. But for a government to do so, is criminal.

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Lovely rant that you do again, but I think you miss the mark with this one and is rather condescending to Nathanael.

Nathanael is assuring us that their are plenty of people within the government trying to correct the behaviour of its own employees, something that we all want and has nothing to do with your rant.

Peter.

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Nathanael is assuring us that their are plenty of people within the government trying to correct the behaviour of its own employees, something that we all want and has nothing to do with your rant.

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Nah it's ok; State and Federal Government bureaucracy is a pain in the for sure and there are plenty of public servants who just don't care. It's just a job and they have no interest in making an effort to improve the system or to even empathise with the people who suffer from having to wrestle with the giant red tape machine.

But there are definitely agitators both in Australia and embedded in Western democracy generally who are pushing for a cultural change, recognising that governments need to do a better job and that citizens deserve better. People like Cass R. Sunstein who was the Administrator of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama administration (and read his book Simpler: The Future of Government if you want some glimmer of hope) plus various initiatives locally sometimes launched under the banner of Open Government or Government 2.0 in an effort to close the gap, to make government transparent and accessible and develop empathy and understanding of the citizens that government serves rather than treating everyone like homogeneous numbers.

Some people who want to see change do so from the outside, while others recognise that the best way they can contribute is to join the public service and do what they can from inside. It's a thankless, difficult job pushing against the norm and such people frequently cop flak for not keeping their head down and just doing business as usual … but they want to make the world a better place, they want to change government and arrest it's move towards command and control back to serving and supporting.

What has any of this got to do with woodwork?

As a recent arrival to these shores I am staggered at the level of customer service offered locally.

I recently bought wine on line from an Adelaide wine company for delivery to Adelaide (15kms) to be precise. Two weeks......

Ordering Stanley sweetheart chisels from Nsw dealer, three weeks plus $25 delivery. Amazon 72hrs, free delivery and35% saving. I'm guessing that's where the dealer was going to go.

There are good stories though, our dog food supplier, email over the weekend, buckets arrive by 10am Tuesday without fail.

Small businesses have clicked on what they have to do and are more than capable of responding and week succeed. It's the mid level companies that seem fixed in their gouging mentality of screw you and pay more. Oh and the answer is to lobby government to make importing more expensive in order to compete, not get more competitive...

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

While I hate to say it, I am having problems with an on line order.
:ranton: I placed an order with an Australian company web site at the end of February, and normally, as per their web site, they deliver in a few days. This time however after three weeks, not only am I still waiting, the web site shows I have made the order, but no progress is noted in status.
I tried sending a message to the owner via a WWF private message - no response. I sent a message via the website help desk - no response. I have tried ringing - we are unable to take your call due to relocation, but are still excepting orders. Finally I sent an email saying if I did not receive a response in three hours I would assume the company no longer existed. At last a reply. They are having communication issues. Since then I have exchanged a few emails but my last one, "When can I expect delivery?" has gone unanswered.
In the past I have praised this company's service, now I doubt if I would be returning. A pity really.
:rantoff:
One of the good things about the internet is it sometimes lets you compare prices. I have found a different local supplier with lower prices, I can shop in person, and they can also deliver if I am unable to get to the shop.

Sometimes things are diamonds and roses, at other times they are ...

I've bought lots of things online. I will usually support a local business if I can, even when buying online, unless the difference in price is so large that I feel that the local business is just trying to rip me off (and I know about the costs of importing etc because my wife runs her own business doing just that). I have usually had good experience both locally and internationally when buying online. There are 2 exceptions that come to mind. One was with an Australian online-only retailer for 2 tablets that I purchased recently. It turns out that they have an established reputation for poor customer service. I normally check such things on another forum website (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post the name of it - it is a very well known Australian website that has a vast amount of information on technology subjects and the internet. The name of it is the same as an Australian brand of whitegoods...), but on this occasion I didn't think to do that. My experience with the retailer was terrible, as lots of other people had reported. I will of course never shop with them again, and I wish I could mention the company here to warn other forumites, but of course I will respect the rules. The other experience was in buying some USB flash drives from HK a few years ago. They arrived and seemed to be what was ordered, but upon using them they were not the size ordered and within days were not usable at all. Many emails later I came to the opinion that the seller was basically a crook. I referred the matter to eBay but of course it is easy for an online seller to register again with another business name, so I doubt it cost the seller any lost business, apart from mine... I agree that customer service generally in this country is poor, but I also agree that there are exceptions - and when you find one isn't it a pleasant surprise? I'm a repeat customer with businesses that treat me well, and I never go back to the others unless I have no choice - like Telstra in some circumstances... :(

Without naming names, in my decade as a corporate web developer of online stores for major brands and household names (Australian and international), I've been absolutely shocked at how the wetware systems (humans) behind the technology have operated. I've developed, quite frankly, freakin' amazing front end systems that allowed for the easy display of all products for sale, stock counts, simple contact systems, automated stage-by-stage emails and all the lovely stuff that I customer likes to see and use...but after their order was placed electronically it came down to the lowest paid guy in the warehouse to do his job properly in following through with the process to get the product shipped out.

It was incredibly frustrating to be contacted by the business complaining about customers complaining about orders when it was their own internal staff screwing up an otherwise totally streamlined process that took months to develop.

Cripes...once it took over a week of convincing one massive company to put their URL on their catalogs and TV ads. They had absolutely no idea of the power (and requirements) of an online presence.

TLDR: Companies get web sites made just to get more orders in, then fail to develop the important internal processes, and connection with the customer to make it a worthwhile venture...and it blows.

I buy OS regularly but this past week I have emailed two US companies for info and neither have replied. I usually just use the phone but they are difficult time zones for me so I guess the phone calls will have to be made.

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Originally Posted by RedShirtGuy

Without naming names, in my decade as a corporate web developer of online stores for major brands and household names (Australian and international), I've been absolutely shocked at how the wetware systems (humans) behind the technology have operated. I've developed, quite frankly, freakin' amazing front end systems that allowed for the easy display of all products for sale, stock counts, simple contact systems, automated stage-by-stage emails and all the lovely stuff that I customer likes to see and use...but after their order was placed electronically it came down to the lowest paid guy in the warehouse to do his job properly in following through with the process to get the product shipped out.

It was incredibly frustrating to be contacted by the business complaining about customers complaining about orders when it was their own internal staff screwing up an otherwise totally streamlined process that took months to develop.

Cripes...once it took over a week of convincing one massive company to put their URL on their catalogs and TV ads. They had absolutely no idea of the power (and requirements) of an online presence.

TLDR: Companies get web sites made just to get more orders in, then fail to develop the important internal processes, and connection with the customer to make it a worthwhile venture...and it blows.

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Or they had good internal processes and decided they were too expensive to continue to run on shore so off shored them into another time zone :(

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Originally Posted by lesmeyer

There should be a law in this country that prohibits an item being put up for sale on a website that is not available for immediate shipment (read, in stock) unless otherwise stated. It is 2014 and a simple computer system can tell these things. Even some of our larger companies are simply a little backward when it comes to these matters. Online shopping has been around for 20 + years now. So they are simply stupid or unethical.
My tuppence worth.
Les

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There is its called Australian Consumer Law http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/conten...oc=the_acl.htm

The sorts of practices described fall into the false, misleading & deceptive conduct and some may also be considered to be scams (relist on Ebay). We all need to report this sort of behaviour to the Office of Fair Trading in QLD etc http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/conten...sumers_ACL.htm so a profile of their conduct can be built to launch a sucessful prossecution.

If consumers stay silent and don't exercise their rights then nothing changes. Off shore based businesses are a little harder to deal with but it can be done.