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I have a budget of around the $500 mark to purchase a compressor and spray gun.
I would like to be able to spray finish coats on projects I have made. Can I get a suitable unit for this type of money or should I spend the money on just the compressor now and wait until later to buy the gun?
What do you all suggest?
Thanks in advance
Ash
Ash,
depends on the size of your projects. If you're just spraying turned pens and small bowls then no problems, but if you want to spray a boardroom table then you'll need more than $500 worth of compressor and spray gun.
Mick
Hi Mick
The projects I usually do are furniture type e.g. coffee table, tv unit etc. although I may have the need to spray a paling fence in the future.
Ash
Ash,
I don't think that $500 will be enough in that case. A compressor large enough for that type of work will start at around $500, then you'll need a decent filter/drier/regulator (about $100), hoses and fittings (about $50) and then your spray gun ($100 ++++).
Mick
Thanks again Mick
Any recommendations on compressor make & model ??
I am happy to go with the compressor first and save the hard earned for the gun next.
Cheers
Ash
I'd go for a belt rather than direct drive, as far as specific brands go, perhaps someone who has more recently bought a compressor would have recomendations (I bought my Ingersoll Rand more than 15 years ago).
Mick
As far as spray guns you would have to go a long way to get better value for a first gun past the "STAR S770" for arround the $100 may bee less.
However carbatec brisbane have the HVLP porter cable on special (brisbane only) for $125 down from $200 if there are any left. I now have two of these One Ive had for a while & I like it a lot.
On the compressor you are limited by how much power you have available.
A 15cfm would be a good choice BUT you will need a 15 amp power point.
13cfm would be reasonable. If you have any long term view definitely belt drive.
Check out hare & forbes ( just to check out at first ) their pilot range are a reasonable indicator of reasonable. Other vendors will offer this brand.
If you are serious think about getting a second reciever (tank) wich will give you more stored air but more importantly it will allow much better moisture extraction.
The WTD 12 cfm belt drive 2 hp is selling in Perth at $395-00. It is black, quiet and very efficient, the rating is correct, not a thumb suck figure. There was a post on here abt 6 to 10 weeks a go when someone eventually bought on from Perth and had it sent to the east coast. Search will find it.
Ashley,
You can get by with a 40 litre 2.5 hp compressor to do the jobs that you want done. Your budget is within limits to get yourself a good set up. Ive got a gravity HVLP spray gun that is magnificent to use as are the other guns that I use. I find the touch up gun pure "magic" and it performs well way behond what many believe it can do. Its all in the hands of the operator if you botch a spray job! These gun are "clones" of expensive brands without the hole in the pocket syndrome. :rolleyes:
I have a drier filter that extracts any dust, water and "oil" if present. This fits to the end of the gun and can be interchanged from gun to gun. Its great to use. ;)
The finish I get is good as any pro can do and preparation takes more time than the paint job itself. I just love the touch up gun , gravity gun and the larger volume capacity gun. :p These all run fantastically using a direct drive compressor that is a real charm. All i can say- this is hard to beat and falls well within your budget for a professional set-up without the placebo effect of spending ridiculous amounts of money on achieving professional results.
here are some photos of the guns:- :) :) :) :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ho/kithvlp.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...randfilter.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...o/complete.jpg
:p :p :p
ViolinCrafter,
Do you have any idea what the cubic capacity of your compressor is?
I have a 2HP/ 30L tank (direct drive) which from my sums pumps out about 4cfm (.11 m3/min).
I can happily drive my Star S770 (the gun doesn't get ahead of the compressor, but thought one would need at least 12-16 cfm to power a HVLP gun.
Regards,
P
Thanks Ash for starting this thread because I need help on this subject also.
I recently picked up a 2HP 24litre direct drive compressor at a garage sale. The unit is in VG condition and I bought it with the intention of utilizing it for blowing dust out of power tools etc. I have yet to buy accessories but in looking around realized that I may also be able to use it for spraying.
As has been identified there are many different types of compressors and spray equipment and so I wondered whether those of you who know about these things would share the low down and application on such things as compressor capacity, gravity feed versus suction feed spray guns, high pressure spray guns, touch up spray guns, high pressure low volume spray guns etc. There also seems to be an assortment of fittings, is there no standard?
Thanks for any replies that help a novice with this subject.
Regards from Adelaide
Trevor
I'm no expert but will just throw in a few tidbits of useful information I have found...
The S-770 Spray gun mentioned above can be had at TradeTools (QLD) for $49. I bought a "TradeAir" badged S-770 at bunies for $54.
Spare pots are going for $19.99 at Supercheap Auto. I haven't bought one yet but I'd assume they would fit the S-770.
The small touch up guns in the cheap range all look exactly the same, from the same factory no doubt. You can pay up to $50 for these but the best price I have seen, and paid is $32 for "Scorpion" badged touch up gun from the local Repco store.
I have a 2HP 24L compressor I bought about 4-5 years back now - paid $220 back then (which was cheap at the time). Powers all the above fairly well. Suitable for the occassional spray finish but would cycle a fair bit if I tried to paint a fence no doubt :)
No problerms with all the nail guns either. I use quick connector fittings with the nail guns but these seem to cause some grief trying to get a regulated pressure when used with the spray guns or my little airbrush for model painting (not sure why - no expert).
Hi Folks, :D
If you set the gun up correctly and you dont intend on painting the "Opera House" and concentrate on coffee table sized items there is no problems with spray painting such items. The HVLP gun for me works fine and I adjust the air to about 43 - 50 psi and fine tune the adjuster at the bottom of its handle which allows for VOLUME of air capacity. ;)
Also its essential to get the balance between AIR flow and PAINT adjustment at the nozzle for required atomization. Anyway TO MUCH PAINT OR AIR FLOW WILL RUIN THE FINISH. To much air flow or HIGH VOLUME WILL GIVE ORANGE PEEL,,, to much paint and dreaded RUNS! The HIGH volume does not nesessarily mean ALL OUT EXHAUSTION of your compressor but a keen adjustment at the gun and or other gauges to achieve a level flow. :mad: :mad:
As with anything, the smaller the project the less demanding compressor is needed the larger the project such as a "JUMBO JET" you need serious cfm to handle this unless of course its done in sections as most things at that scale would be! lol Imagine if you had to paint a "jumbo" in one go!
This would require a compressor the size of who knows what! (only a joke) :cool:
To use a HVLP spray gun a 14 cfm would require you to move very quicly so as to prevent runs all over the place. Mines fine tuned to suit the compressor at a workable and detailed method as in fine adjustments :D !
Dean you are correct about generic brands that come out of one factory with different stickers to it. I find that the Gravity feed is a copy of a much more expensive unit for less than a fourth of its price. It comes with good accessories unlike its brother clone or visa versa. The case also is nice for shelving it when not in use! It once retailed for $299.00 but can be bought for $100-$150 on a midnight special! :o :o :o
Violincrafter,
Where did you source your kit?
Thanks to all
Violincrafter - I am a little confused as to which gun would suit my purpose. I don't understand the different uses for the different guns etc.
Could you perhaps enlighten me a little more? Also, what brand/model of gun and compressor would you suggest as the best for for my application(s).
Thanks in advance
Ash
The guns for arround $50 to60 are unlikely to be "STAR". I know the cheaper units and they are different.
The star units are going for just under the $100.
The star guns are coppies of the "Iwata" to my understanding.
Most of the cheaper ones are coppies of an early Arnold.
They are ok (i use one for glue) but the star is more refined.
I seem to remember trade tools had a coppy ( coppy of the coppy) of the star with their badge on it but they still sell the star.
I'll be in there some time so Ill check it out.
cheers
I cannot help with guns, but two names stand out amongst the crowd when it comes to compressors. Mind you the price will be over $500, they are belt drive, cast iron construction and fairly heavy. These names are Clisby and Mc Millian.
Just a few months ago I was speaking to compressor serviceman and he said, as a general rule these days, if you pay under $1000 its a throw away item when it breaks down. This of course does not apply to the above names which have been around for years and have remained unchanged for that time.
Daniel
Ashley,
For general purpose spraying I think the Star 77o is a good ALL purpose gun to use. The gravity feed is more for a person wanting less overspray and less pollution to the environment. The paint is 65 % efficiently distributed to the work.
The mystery of conventional and suction feed is the method of how the paint is delivered to the nozzle. Because gravity is used to supply paint from above the nozzle it takes less effort for it to reach the nozzle. Hence I believe the HIGH VOLUME acronym of HVLP actualy refers to HIGH VOLUME OF MATERIAL transfer. I have to control very delicately the adjuster for the needle with a 1.4 bore nozzle ever so slightly because it delivers paint at a HIGH VOLUME at 45 psi. Its like having a bucket full of paint above being fed directly to the nozzle via gravity filling a reservoir before the needle and the trigger adjustment controls the amount (with very little effort) except for the assistance of compressed air and vacuum at the nozzle.
The suction feed gun is as if paint is placed in a bucket and a length of tube is placed into it and a flow of air passes over the end of the tube creating a vacuum which has to siphon the paint from the pot or "bucket" to distribute the paint. This requires more effort and hence more overspray and waste as a result.
I guess its a matter of choice of what type best suits the application and the tradition of what a painter feels comfortable with. BOTH provide good results and the suction gun is traditional and gravity is modern. :D
The compressor issue of cost and maintenance is yet for me to comment (when it breaks down then I can comment), but from the schematic diagram of its parts it looks good to me with a cast iron head with a traditional piston set up. Gaskets are easily fabricated in any workshop with a keen eye to detail and a set of GOOD hole punches. :) I feel confident in pulling any motor apart to ascertain the repair needed. Its quite simple! It may be throw away but I believe I can fix it if required. If not well BIG loss aint it. :cool: For a 1000 dollars I can buy almost SIX of these compressors with each having either 1 year or 2 year has factory warranties as with the 1000 dollar unit. (replacement fully) What more can you want? :p :confused: There is a belt drive model I've seen for a mere $399.00 and it looks as good as any to me.
Anyway thats my "train" of thought and each to their own. I can buy the expensive models but what for? The gravity feed gun can be purchased at the Supercheap auto chain and I picked it up for $99.00 and its not that expensive. I remember it being once upon a time $299.00. WOW what a saving! ;) ;)
Ps, For fence painting I think I would opt for the "whiskers on a stick" method (brush) to slap on the fence paint. Preferably a 100mm - 125 mm width type. I think a compressor and spray gun is a bit "Queen Victorian" method of indulgence! On the other hand if you have lots of pickets, trellis and "tedious" Creations then get out that spray gun LOL. :eek: :eek:
I must admit, I have a cheapy as well and its still going some 8 years on, it does not get a lot of use. And when it comes to getting another one it would be another cheapy because it won't be used a lot.
Probably the $1000 plus units were for commercial applications where you can run the compressor day in day out without rest or for people that wanted a compressor to last a long time.
Daniel
I had 2 tradeair touch up guns which look like copies of the star. Both of them stuffed up. I bought the Star for around $100 and have had no dramas. I doubt that they come from the same factory. I now have 3 Star guns and must say they are of a better quality than the even cheaper guns.
Personally I don't think $100 for a gun is too much more than the $50 gun given what you get. Sometimes it pays to spend just that little bit extra.
I have a direct drive Colt (2.5hp 40 lt receiver) compressor that I've had for years. When I spray the compressor doesn't get much rest. I dont think they really are suitable for spraying regularly but will do the job.
I also find the belt drive models to be quieter than the direct drive versions. I've even heard some that are really quiet.
mmm,
I see! The touch ups come from the same factory I think? After comparing the guns of various brands together there are NO differences. Pull them apart and have a geezer! :eek: Anyway Boban what stuffed up on them? This is interesting research to say the least! :mad:
The unit comprises of basic components and I cant see where a touch up gun could stuff up. :confused: Trigger seems well made one piece, Needle is stainless steel with brass ferrule slide. one piece nozzle die cast, forged one piece alloy body cant see where it can stuff up! Threads are nicely done and fitted. Please post a picture of the offending piece! :eek: It would be interesting to view the offending components so that others can appreciate what can go wrong with a spray gun. ( A good stand is a must so it doesnt get dropped). :)
Remember the Guy who started this thread :confused: wants to paint a coffee table, maybe a fence and some other small items. ;) Anyone can understand this is not rocket science + heavy industry with mass produced IKEA scandinavian wood finishing exports! Oh well back to the JUMBO! :rolleyes:
Both the guns went back to Bunnings for an exchange then refund. They stuffed up within a matter of a couple of weeks. About 3 seperate jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by violincrafter
I don't know the terminology to describe the offending parts but suffice to say that it not in an area that could be easily gotten to as I strip my guns to clean them. Every time without fail. Both guns would not let sufficient air through them. It was probably the same part on both the guns. Suffice to say that I have had no problems with the Star gun.
Dont get me wrong, I have a cheap gun that I spray glue with. No probs. My only bad experience was with this particular brand and type of gun.
It might be just me, but the Star gun looks to be finished better than the Tradeair. But this might just be my imagination.
As promised I checked out trade tools (baught goodies while there of course) they have star s770's on the shelf at $120 with a 1L pot. they have some generic trade tools branded guns for less that look ok.
If its a genuine star it will have star cast into the body.
As for the touch up guns, I baught a cheap touch up gun many years ago & thaugt it was great a couple of bits broke Which i replace by devious ingenuity.
I more recentlt baught a star touch up gun & the difference is plainly obvious but the star stuff is still "cheap as" but thay have the quality point right.
As far as spraying small items even these cheap "toy" compressors will handle that. Just be prepared to throw it away when it no longer meets your needs.
cheers
I have a very cheap compressor setup. Compressor is 2.5hP, 40L, 10cfm. It's a noisy, cheap model from SuperCheap Auto. The compressor runs almost continuously when spraying, but that's not a problem. Most of my jobs are furniture sized, And I spray before final assembly, so I'm stopping and starting after each piece anyway, so the compressor easily keeps up.
I had to replace some of the compressor fittings, because although the compressor was rated at 10cfm, the output guage and valves were very small diameter, and it couldn't keep the pressure up when spraying. After months of frustration trying to find the problem, I upgraded the regulator and valves, and it's much better now. Quick release fittings also made it much more useful, a pressure guage attached to the base of the spray gun is an absolute necessity, and a water trap is important for many finishes (although I managed a few successful nitrocellulose jobs before I added my water-trap).
Rough prices...
Compressor $150 (rough memory)
Fittings (upgrades and extras) $150
Hoses $100
HP Spray gun $30
The $30 (on sale) spray gun is also a supercheap auto job. It gives a decent finish with nitro-cellulose lacquer (my main reason for buying a compressor). Certainly for paint or PU varnish, it's great. As someone else mentioned, this gun was indistinguishable from a much more expensive gun.
If I were to buy again, I'd probalby spend a little more on the compressor and hopefully less on upgrading the fittings, but this one does the job.
One thing I didn't realise before buying a compressor is how useful compressed air is in a workshop. Even just for blowing things. :)
One last comment - if you are going to spray fence palings, do it before you put them on the fence, otherwise you will end up with zebra-grass (and waste half your paint). :)