Metho Needed...............hic'

I am having huge troubles tracking down a supply of 100% metho.
I've used all the names, 100%, industrial etc. but no one seems to know or care. I've been to hardware shops, specialist paint shops, even asked a furniture restorer, he just uses off the shelf stuff. :confused: I'm not gonna upset anyone and suggest this is an alternative, I've read the book and seen the show.
I wanna try french polishing, and I reckon I need everything I can going for me.
Any help as to suppliers, brand names etc. will be gratefully received.

Went into Mitre 10 up the road from home and there on the shelf with the rest of the stuff was Industrial metho.

It is called 100% but it isn't pure alcohol as it is illegal to sell it that way, it has to include a denaturant (stops ya from Hic... drinkin it).

Could be a problem with living in the outback, no-one wants to know or even cares. :(

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

.............Could be a problem with living in the outback, no-one wants to know or even cares. :(

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Be careful, I might build a big soap box and let fly on this very topic. I'll keep trying. :)

It will be a soap box with an inferior shellac finish, but a soap box all the same. :p

Dan

PS Same problem in Cobram.

G'day outback, I have asked one of our senior chemists at work about the same problem, wether the shop bought stuff could be distilled and if the pure metho was still available.

His answer : Yes you can still obtain the pure metho. However it is now covered under the "Tobacco & Alchohol" act and by the time you got through all the paper work involved you would be too old to use the stuff, oh and no garrantee of obtaining the required permit anyway.

If your game enough (or silly enough) and can obtain or build a still and distill the commercial metho that way, however it's also illegal to own or operate a still without the proper certification which opens up a whole new can of worms, How safe is the still, is to be used for commercial purposes etc etc.
I made a few tentative enquiries in both directions and at the end of it all I decided, to hell with it and went with the "off the shelf" brand from Woolies.
I reckon it worked fine but a proffessional would probably disagree.
Good luck with it mate and if you happen to find an easy way, I'm sure a few other people would like to know as well.

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Originally Posted by outback

I've been to hardware shops, specialist paint shops, even asked a furniture restorer, he just uses off the shelf stuff. :confused: I'm not gonna upset anyone and suggest this is an alternative, I've read the book and seen the show.

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Outback, the local paint shops around here can get it in from Haymes, maybe you are to far away for that. :D Some brands of metho is better than others, Bunnies brand is the worst as it has more water than most.

In any case you can use the ordinary stuff, like your furniture restorer does, except that it takes longer to do. Whilst applying polish with your rubber you first have to dry of the water content by friction before your finish starts to appear. Just means more polishing for you.


Peter.

I bought mine in a four liter bottle from the local Miter 10. They didn't have it in one liter sizes.

Maybe this will be a spanner in the works. I use methanol as is supplied as a fuel for racing or even some hobby shops as the bulk of the fuel mix for model aircraft engines. Make sure they supply pure methanol and not the ready mixed fuel which will contain 18 to 25% oil and ) to 20% nitromethane.

Methanol and ethanol have almost identical properties as a solvent. Keep it well stoppered as it will absorb huge amounts of moisture from the air.

Disclaimer: You use it at your own risk!

It is legal to have a small still in Queensland for personal use. Frankly though you will not achieve significant drying of metho by a distillation method unless you also employ a fractionating column. You could dry it by storing it over a dessicant such as anhydrous magnesium sulphate or calcium sulphate or calcium oxide and then distil it, you may go from 5% water to 1-2% water, but since alcohol is so hygroscopic (loves water) by the time you've made your shellac, soaked it into a rubber, its probably as wet as when you started.

Cheers
Michael

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

It is called 100% but it isn't pure alcohol as it is illegal to sell it that way, it has to include a denaturant (stops ya from Hic... drinkin it).

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Neil.. from experience (not mine) IF you add a decent amount of SALVITAL and orange juice, it IS drinkable :)

Jeez, Brudda, that's flash. Many years ago, in a place far far away, I was told by an expert that the best recipe is to add a small amount of the boilings off sweet potato, plus some boot polish if you're a red drinker. :D

Do NOT try this at home!

I just went out to see what name was on the lable of the bottle in the shed, and it is Haynes.
Any paint shop that sells Haynes Paint should be able to get 100% metho from Haynes.


Tim.

I have nothing to do with haynes paints apart from using there products.

Always thought the pure stuff was ethyl a., and the toxin added to make it treely rooly bad for you was methyl a.

Any case, major supplier of 'pure' meths here in Melb is Sceneys, 17 Third Av., Sunshine. They may be able to tell you who flogs their product.

BTW Last I looked Mitre 10 in Sydney Rd. Brunswick had it, along with Tung Oil, Terebrine and other interesting bits and pieces. If you drop in on a weekend, ask for Adrian and tell him his ole man sent you and you're a member of the 'family' ;)

Thanks people, I do have a Haymes distributor not too far away, relatively speaking.

I did ask them earlier but got the vague far away look. I may try my unusual smooth, sophisticated sledge hammer approach, this time and see if I get further.:D



I do love DanP's reply, won't let me give ya a greenie for it.

That's cos his history is wrong ... history is the story written by the victors ..

I can't remember the origin of that caustic reading; will have to cede the ground to Dan on knowledge of sources ;)

DON'T, I repeat DON'T use methanol for polishing!!! It is highly toxic.

Jo sepi - this is from my previous post: It is called 100% but it isn't pure alcohol as it is illegal to sell it that way, it has to include a denaturant (stops ya from Hic... drinkin it). - Sorry should have said without having a special liscence you cannot purchase the pure stuff.

Outback - Haymes is definitely the way to go. Just ask them for Industrial Methylated Spirits, leave off the 100%

The three Haymes distributors in Sudney area that I phoned only stock 96% and not the 100%. Bunnings stocks the metho in 96%. (96% works OK if stuck but may make the shellac a little cloudy in appearance but this will settle when dried or spirited off)


Any paint shop that sells Haynes Paint should be able to get 100% metho from Haynes.

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Originally Posted by outback

I am having huge troubles tracking down a supply of 100% metho.
I've used all the names, 100%, industrial etc. but no one seems to know or care. I've been to hardware shops, specialist paint shops, even asked a furniture restorer, he just uses off the shelf stuff.
Any help as to suppliers, brand names etc. will be gratefully received.

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CSR Ethanl division sells 100% Industrial Metho directly. Delivery is inclusive in the price. 20 Ltr is $5.28/ltr +GST. 40Ltr is $4.14/ltr + GST. Delivery is to Metro areas only any country shipments must be arranged by purchaser (dangerous goods).
I'm in Sydney if you want to get a small quantity from me at cost.

Your "Metho" is actually Ethanol, or Ethyl Alcohol.

It was once "Methylated" with methanol to make it undrinkable. (Hence "Metho"). But that failed, as methanol tastes like ethanol, except that it kills you. So now they make it unpalatable with Pyridine.

It is quite difficult to remove that pyridine, so that beats the amateur vodka makers who simply try to distil the ethanol out.

Distillation won't give you 100% ethanol, as ethanol/water distils as an "azeotrope" which is 95/5 ethanol/water. So called "100% industrial metho" is 95% Ethanol, 5% water and a smidgeon of pyridine.

100% ethanol is sold as "Anhydrous Ethanol". It is expensive, and highly controlled for excise tax and health reasons.

If you really want to dry out ordinary Metho you could try a load of silica gel dessicant in the liquid (I'm guessing 5 to 10% of the weight of metho) and leave it fow a few days.

Ed T

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Originally Posted by gatiep

Methanol and ethanol have almost identical properties as a solvent. Keep it well stoppered as it will absorb huge amounts of moisture from the air.

Disclaimer: You use it at your own risk!

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Funny I actually think of them as very different, Tetracycline does not dissolve well in ethanol, but is readily soluble in methanol, there are a number of similar examples. Methanol is also great for removeing air bubble in high pressure tubing whereas ethanol does not do the same thing.

A way of removing water from liquids without distilling (and air distilling only gets you to 70-80% pure) is to dehydrate. Get a pack of epsom salts, spread it out on a baking tray and put it in a 180deg oven for 2hrs. Let is cool in the oven and then put in a bottle and pour the methylated spirits over the top. By heating the epsom salts you remove water from the crystals and they get that water back from the mtho that you add. Very efficient with one caveat, Neil says that metals degrade shellac, the amount of magnesium in the resulting metho would be vanishingly small, but may have an effect. There are other types of drier, silica gel and molecular sieves, but these are not readily available to the average person.

I use this trick to keep long term solutions of water sensitive chemicals.

Hate to say it guys, but I am sitting not fifty meters from a tank of 100% pure ethyl alcohol about twenty thousand litres of the stuff!! Mind you I do work for Pfizer, and taking it off site will get me fired..We use it for making sterile alcohol for hospitals(we cut it with ultra pure water till it is 70%. Sorry I can't help.. but I just thought I would share that with you..:D


Bradders

Thanks for the input. The silica crystals sound interesting, certainly worth more investigating.
Yesterday I went to the almost local Haymes stockist, I got the usual vague looks, checked the shelf, Are you sure this won't do? In the end he rang the HAymes chemist division, all they told him was their metho was 60 - 95 %. Lotsa help.

Off I goes to Mitre 10, usual stuff, he rang his supplier,then the Earth shook, the blokes face glazed over, he thanked whoever on the other end of the phone hung up, and told me No probs, will be here at the end of the week.

I am now one happy french polish potential. :D

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Originally Posted by outback

I am now one happy french polish potential. :D

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Perseverance pays of. Good luck with French polishing.

BTW getting the good stuff saves about 35 % in polishing time. :D


Peter.

We go through a thousand or so litres of the stuff a month, maybe we should start botteling and selling it. Might save a few headaches and free up the finishing forum.

Cheers - Neil :D

PS Bet if we did we wouldn't sell any. It's a bit like that. https://www.ubeaut.biz/ohreally.gif

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

We go through a thousand or so litres of the stuff a month, maybe we should start botteling and selling it. Might save a few headaches and free up the finishing forum.

Cheers - Neil :D

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Yes you should, Yes you should, Yes you should. It'd make my life a lot easier anyway. :cool:

Thank Dog , for the Forum !! Was having the same problem , trying to find IMS , was just about to fire off a question when I found this thread .AND if another 17 yo , jumped up never come down , pimply faced , mobile phone toting , text messaging , hat on backwards wearing , skate board riding , hardware shop assistant person , offers me the benefit of their knowledge and experience , evil things will be visited upon them !!

BTW , in the abscence of IMS ' MENNEN AFTERSHAVE ' strained through stale bread will do the job !!

VEEBULL
PS , tip , don't go asking at the local pharmacy for IMS , sure to set the alarms bells ringing !! Took me 15 minutes to convince them I was not setting up a drug lab !!

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Originally Posted by VEEBULL

PS , tip , don't go asking at the local pharmacy for IMS , sure to set the alarms bells ringing !! Took me 15 minutes to convince them I was not setting up a drug lab !!

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You must've had your baseball cap on backwards VEEBULL ;-}

Dude ( that's how a conversation starts these days )NOBODY COULD MISTAKE ME FOR 17, I got one of them 'TOP BRAZILLIANS ' or as me cobber says a ' long forehead '


VEEBULL

Hey Dude, all the more frightening ... a drug baron whose survived as long as you must be one mean mother.

In Vic you can buy a still legally, our local home brew place sells them but with a rider 'for extracting the natural oils from flowers for exotic oils, must not be used for the distillation of spirits without a licence from customs etc etc'.
And of course all his customers make home made beer and perfume :D :D :D

Yer a funny man Ern , mate , if I was 'BARON' I'd be down the coast " wiv me hoes " instead of being stuck here , grafting .

Mike.