Animal cruelty …. Time for legal action.

I feel that I need to get something off my chest …. Over the past few months there have been horrific stories of animal cruelty from a small sector of sickos in our society.

I don’t really want to go into detail, first of all I don’t know all of the details, and second of all I don’t think it should be encouraged.

The first story that I heard was the torturing of a kitten by army personnel in Queensland. The people involved were identified.

Then there was another kitten tortured at a train station in Sydney by a number of kid, it was caught on tape and shown at length on the news. Again I think the kids were caught.

There were a number of copycat (no pun intended) attacks in and around Sydney following the above case.

Last night I heard about a kitten being decapitated in Tasmania.

Another story about a man that beat his German Sheppard puppy to death with his bear hands because it ate his cigarettes. He was charged.

And finally if that isn’t enough some old fart who beat his neighbours cat to death with his walking stick. The cat was owned by a young child, and again he was charged.

Now a majority, if not all of the perpetrators of these acts have been identified and some have been bought before the courts.

The man who beat his puppy to death with his hands – 6 weeks in jail, suspended for a year.
The army personnel – community work with the RSPCA – they didn’t want them.
The kids at the train station?
I think the old fart got off.

Now why isn’t there public outrage over the leniency of these sentences? The cases get media coverage as a shock story when it comes out, this in my opinion should be stopped as it does encourage other sickos to follow. They get bought before the courts and very little coverage or comment is made over the leniency of the sentence.

It is about time that the legal system made a stand and laid down a sentence that will strongly discourage this behaviour. The legal system needs to get its finger out of its bum and make a strong stand. All it would need is one of the perpetrators in one of the above cases to be given a lengthy (2+ years) jail sentence to set a precedent for this type of crime. If the lawyers for the accused start to cry that it is all due to the bad childhood and mental issues, then lock them up in a mental hospital for 3+ years.

Torturing a defenceless animal in any way should be treated with the same distain as a child beater. I would like to see how funny or how tough these people feel when they are being give a whipping by a guy called Bubba in a 6x4 cell, perhaps this would make others think twice before they do the same.

Now before you tossers get on and post the redneck comments that the only good cat is a dead cat, don’t bother. If an animal is causing a problem then dealing with it humanly is one thing, but bashing a puppy to death with your hands is sick. My soapbox is about animal cruelty, not ethical animal control.

yep agree 100%, people torturing or harming animals should be locked up for a long time.
If anyone feels the need to harm a defenseless animal it probably means they have some serious mental problems anyway so lock'em up or flogg'em

Only problem will be trying to get our hopeless politicians (any party) to do anything about it

nic

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Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot

Now before you tossers get on and post the redneck comments that the only good cat is a dead cat, don’t bother. If an animal is causing a problem then dealing with it humanly is one thing, but bashing a puppy to death with your hands is sick. My soapbox is about animal cruelty, not ethical animal control.

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Sir Stink, I'd hate to be confused with THEM so will remind THEM that fear in animals adversely impacts on the quality of the meat...

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Decreased meat quality due to transportation and stress is well documented in other animals: swine - PSE (Pale Soft Exsudative); beef - DFD (Dark Firm Dry) and is of a major concern in these industries. Much concern has been devoted to find the critical stressful points in these industries and new laws and codes of practice have been introduced to decrease the incidence of meat loss due to stress.

Stress prior to slaughter results in depletion of muscle glycogen which is one reason for abnormal carcass and meat characteristics (15,16). In a normally rested animal, there is sufficient tissue glycogen to cause adequate post-mortal glycolysis, which lowers the pH just after slaughtering (17). The glycolysis increases the muscle acidity, resulting in a low meat pH. The pH of stressed animal meat falls below of that usually found in the meat of healthy non-stressed animals. In stressed animals, glycogen can completely disappear and the meat begins to decompose (14).**

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If it makes you feel any better, the army guys were dishonourably discharged, and no it's not excusable.

On the other hand, the rapid despatch of any non-indigenous species by any method is preferable to allowing them to inflict a similar sort of suffering on indigenous species.

Cats, canetoads, foxes, wild dogs, rabbits, wild pigs are all guilty of inflicting the same sort of cruelty on our native species!

I always reckon the punishment should fit the crime.... but then who's going to be the hangman?

Cheers?
P (Cane toad Tosser) ;)

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Sir Stink, I'd hate to be confused with THEM so will remind THEM that fear in animals adversely impacts on the quality of the meat...


If it makes you feel any better, the army guys were dishonourably discharged, and no it's not excusable.

On the other hand, the rapid despatch of any non-indigenous species by any method is preferable to allowing them to inflict a similar sort of suffering on indigenous species.

Cats, canetoads, foxes, wild dogs, rabbits, wild pigs are all guilty of inflicting the same sort of cruelty on our native species!

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You'd better stop eating beef then, that's a non native species that is known to destroy native vegetation.

Unfortunately animals react based on their instincts and even if cats do kill native birds they can't be blamed it's life. We humans are supposed to be a bit more civilised.

nic

I'll make an observation; the Army personnel would have also lost their jobs if they were convicted, so it is a little more than 'community service'. Another view may be 'double jeopardy'.

Asking the legal "system" to take a stand will merely invite one side to give harsher penalties and the other side to further ignore the intent of the law and become more active in further screwing it up.

It's an imperfect system, they all are. But if you want action, go and meet your local member, face-to-face, and get angry. We, as Australians, get the laws and politicians we deserve - because we are too complacent (in general).

Edit: I've added this as the tone of the above paragraphs is not right. If it seems I am in some way disagreeing with your sentiments, I'm not. My comments contain some frustration at Aussies in general who are apathetic about the political process and don't get involved, therefore the situation doesn't improve and their complaints become self-fulfilling prophesy.

When opinion is strong enough and forced on the pollies they do listen (whatever their motivation may be).

I'm with Stinky. I own six cats and two dogs and they are all part of my family. My cats are always locked away during the night.

I once got a guy who killed his land lords German Shepherd in front of the kids. We got him and took him straight to court. He plead guilty and got the maximum penalty of two years imprisonment. It's one of the few times I've been impressed with a sentence and believed that it fit the crime. The magistrate told the crook that if the max had been five years, he would have given him that.

Dan

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Originally Posted by nic

You'd better stop eating beef then, that's a non native species that is known to destroy native vegetation.

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How did you know I wasn't a vegan?? :D

Sorry, didn't mention cows as another feral, which along with the rest (except the toads) I am happy to eat when killed humanely. :D

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Unfortunately animals react based on their instincts and even if cats do kill native birds they can't be blamed it's life. We humans are supposed to be a bit more civilised.

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I'm not in any way defending human cruelty to animals, and yes we are supposed to more civilised, so why do "we" get so upset when criticised for leaving our killing machine animals out where they can not be controlled.

It's not OK for a human to inflict pain on a fluffy animal, so if a human chooses to keep a pet which will do the same, why is it OK to allow that to happen??
:confused: :confused: :confused:

And a big green smooch for DanP and other responsible pet owners!!
(Sorry Dan, I tried!)
Cheers,

P (Just warming up!)

I am watching with interest where this thread goes.

Today at lunch a guy made a 'joking' comment to another about 'kicking his cat up the ring' if it came in his yard again. What followed amazed me, the second guy made an immediate comment about animal abusers being likely to be paedophiles - which was followed by an expectant silence as the table drew breath, waiting for the first punch.

Fortunately the first guy just gaped in disbelief and refused to talk to him again.

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

I'm not in any way defending human cruelty to animals, and yes we are supposed to more civilised, so why do "we" get so upset when criticised for leaving our killing machine animals out where they can not be controlled.

It's not OK for a human to inflict pain on a fluffy animal, so if a human chooses to keep a pet which will do the same, why is it OK to allow that to happen??
:confused: :confused: :confused:

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I didn't want this to become a debate over cats killing our native wildlife, it was not my intension. Knowbody wants to see our wildlife destroyed. I am more than happy to have feral, or problematic animals destroyed in an ethical manner. Kicking a cat or dog to death is not ethical, its barbaric. Our cat has been kept in the house from day one, never allowed outside, they adjust and enjoy it. It also means reduced vet bill as there are no fights with neighbouring animals.

My concern is directed towards the members in our society who seem to take some perverse pleasure in inflicting cruelty on animals. These animals can be anything, cats, dogs, wombats, kangaroos etc, it has just come to my mind after hearing so many stories of late, focusing on dogs and cats.

"I'll make an observation; the Army personnel would have also lost their jobs if they were convicted, so it is a little more than 'community service'. Another view may be 'double jeopardy'."

Lost their job??? they still got off lightly in my opinion. Do we really want these type of people defending our country? Even if they were on a bender and had a few drinks under their belts its is still something inside that makes them think it would be fun. I had a feeling that they had lost their jobs but I couldn't recall all of the details (as I said in my first post). I do remember that they were asked to due community service with the RSPCA to help them learn respect for animals, but the RSPCA said that they didn't want these types of people around the place.

Lost their job??? they still got off lightly in my opinion. Do we really want these type of people defending our country?

Errr, no. That's why they were sacked. The Army won't keep people like that.

Since the topic is raised though, why is it the Army guys' occupations are mentioned?

Where did the puppy beater work?
What school did the kids go to?
Where did the old fart work?

I wish the media wouldn't mention the employer as if it is their fault. As far as I can tell, the Army should be praised as the only other group in the country to actually DO something.

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Originally Posted by Groggy

Today at lunch a guy made a 'joking' comment to another about 'kicking his cat up the ring' if it came in his yard again. What followed amazed me, the second guy made an immediate comment about animal abusers being likely to be paedophiles - which was followed by an expectant silence as the table drew breath, waiting for the first punch.

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Although the reaction of the second bloke is somewhat strange, and perhaps over the top .... why would the first bloke think it "funny" to make a statement like that?
If I was sitting at the table I would quite quickly loose any respect for the fellow. He seems like one of those died in the wool Aussies who seem to have to continually define their masculinity ..... was he going to kick the cat after he had drunk the two slabs of VB and slept with a hooker on the way back from the footy?

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Originally Posted by Groggy

Since the topic is raised though, why is it the Army guys' occupations are mentioned?

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I only mentioned the employer as it was a high profile case and it was reported as such .... it made it easier to recall the incident rather than a few blokes in Queensland.

I would think that the media mentioned the occupations of this particular group because they are seen as a position of public power and respect. Much the same way as if a police person had done the same action. I think that being in this occupation they were seen as abusing the public trust in the position.

Army should be praised as the only other group in the country to actually DO something.

I would agree and they did all that they could do within their power on this issue, they cannot be faulted. I don't think for one moment people would think that the army had anything to do with how the individuals behaved.

I said "joking" not "funny". It was obvious to the rest of us at the time he was not serious by the manner it was said. Still, it was taken literally by the other guy.

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Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot

I would agree and they did all that they could do within their power on this issue, they cannot be faulted. I don't think for one moment people would think that the army had anything to do with how the individuals behaved.

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I disagree. The army are able to apply their own discipline and should have done more in this case than just sack the one's involved. I don't know if they did or not but the could and should have.

If I did what they did three things would happen to me.

1. I would be charged criminally and sent to court.
2. I would be charged internally within the police force and face dismissal
and very heavy fines.
3. I would be sacked.

The Army guys should have faced and received exactly that. That is the way it goes. They should know better.

Dan

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Originally Posted by DanP

I disagree. The army are able to apply their own discipline and should have done more in this case than just sack the one's involved. I don't know if they did or not but the could and should have.

If I did what they did three things would happen to me.

1. I would be charged criminally and sent to court.
2. I would be charged internally within the police force and face dismissal
and very heavy fines.
3. I would be sacked.

The Army guys should have faced and received exactly that. That is the way it goes. They should know better.

Dan

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Dan,

1. The Army cannot bring criminal charges, only the police. The Army cannot take precedence over civil action (though between the police and the Army they may agree who will take action). The police always have precedence. In this case the police apparently did bring criminal charges, hence their appearance before a judge.

2. The Army can fine their members but it is unknown if this occurred (though likely).

3. The Army did sack them.

I think they did what they could, but wanted to do more.

Those who inflict unnecessary pain on animals are likely to do the same to people when it amuses them

Blimey, some of you cat lovers are a bit over the top aren't you?

Now, I admit here and now that I dislike cats. I would not have one as a pet and neither would my wife. We're what you call 'dog people'. That does not mean that I would ever actually wish harm to anyone else's moggy. I did have a cat as a kid and it was a pretty cool pet. His name was Tiddles and he could jump 5 feet in the air from a standing start. He went a bit wild in the end and it took about 10 ticks to kill him.

I am not responding to the cruelty bit. I don't think there's any place for that and I agree with you. I'm responding to the 'redneck' 'masculinity' remarks. I will defend to the death my right to make jokes about cats here or anywhere else. I make these jokes because they amuse me, not because I wish to manifest any of them in reality. I am fairly proud of my ability to tell the difference between a joke and real life.

There have been a number of threads that have gone down this path and to most of us, they are a bit of fun. Some people get upset - what you have to realise is that a) they are jokes and b) the more you protest and get upset, the more fun it is.

Now if the administrators want to add cat jokes to the taboo subject list, fine. Until they do, just take them as intended.

BTW I think the second guy in the lunch room conversation sounds more like the one to watch. There is something a bit concerning about someone who responds like that.

maybe he had a poker face

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Originally Posted by silentC

Blimey, some of you cat lovers are a bit over the top aren't you?

Now, I admit here and now that I dislike cats. I would not have one as a pet and neither would my wife. We're what you call 'dog people'. That does not mean that I would ever actually wish harm to anyone else's moggy. I did have a cat as a kid and it was a pretty cool pet. His name was Tiddles and he could jump 5 feet in the air from a standing start. He went a bit wild in the end and it took about 10 ticks to kill him.

I am not responding to the cruelty bit. I don't think there's any place for that and I agree with you. I'm responding to the 'redneck' 'masculinity' remarks. I will defend to the death my right to make jokes about cats here or anywhere else. I make these jokes because they amuse me, not because I wish to manifest any of them in reality. I am fairly proud of my ability to tell the difference between a joke and real life.

There have been a number of threads that have gone down this path and to most of us, they are a bit of fun. Some people get upset - what you have to realise is that a) they are jokes and b) the more you protest and get upset, the more fun it is.

Now if the administrators want to add cat jokes to the taboo subject list, fine. Until they do, just take them as intended.

BTW I think the second guy in the lunch room conversation sounds more like the one to watch. There is something a bit concerning about someone who responds like that.

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I fully agree with you on all points except that I would add dogs with the cats as animals that I personally don't like.

Peter.

Right! That's it! I will not stand for anyone saying anything horrible about dogs. How could you not love that furry little face looking up at you all expectantly?

:p

What was that Gary Larson cartoon?

What we say: "Good boy, Ralph, good boy. Fetch the ball, Ralph."
What dogs hear: "Blah blah, Ralph, blah blah. Blah blah blah, Ralph."

See, I made a joke about a dog. And I love dogs!!

People who intentionally inflict pain on any animal have a different view on life to me.

I like all animals however when some of them are in the wrong environment or in plague proportions there is a strong case for humanely killing them.

This should be the last option though and more preferrable options might be:

Not to introduce them to that environment in the first place or don't change the natural environment to one that attracts potential problem species. (cutting down large areas of natural forests, cutting down hollowed gum trees and then introducing fruit trees and then complaining about plague proportions of possums living in your roof!!!)

Place controls on people who care for these animals to minimise the Christmas puppy or kitten problem. (Simply by introducing a sufficient delay between showing interest and delivery would slow down or discourage the impulsive type idiot)

Put the environment miles before greed and ignorance. (Cane toads, rabbits, foxes, sparrows, carp, foreign starfish .....)

"At a fundamental level, as human beings, you present for us the awful, threatening and unanswerable question: How did you come to be as you are?" -

quote from the closing remarks of Justice Frank Vincent in the trial of a Victorian serial sex offender and murderer who recieved a second life sentence and was recommended "never to be released".

Much can be said of the links between these comments and the actions of depraved individuals who actively and knowingly commit heinous crimes against animals - not to mention the obvious progression path some may choose to take.

Bugger the cats and dogs someone should let us have a cull on some of the feral bastards who live in town (our town, one was clocked past our place in excess of 200kph, police couldn't catch him, the ones who get p*ssed and break up the shopfronts, the cretins who let their kids chuck rocks at a disabled couple, good fun).
Thankfully we live out of town and are too far away to be targets, if we were they may just find themselves on the wrong end of a bloody big stick.

I think you lot are funny.

We train people to kill people ( the Army dude/s )
And when he/they killed a kitten you all get upset. :confused:

Al :confused:

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not to mention the obvious progression path some may choose to take

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I dunno, I think this is verging a bit on the old 'smoke dope, end up a heroin adict' argument. I'm sure that it's true for some. I guess some people are just bad. They probably start out kicking cats and end up you know where. That doesn't mean that all 'cat kickers' are going to become rock spiders or rapists though.

I think in a lot of cases all that is missing is respect. It's a major leap from hurting an animal to doing the same to a human, no matter how much animal cruelty sickens you. Plenty of people hunt with a gun. They enjoy that as a pastime but how many of them do you think would also enjoy shooting a human? They might fantasize about doing it but I think it takes a different type to actually do it.

I'm not comparing hunters to cat kickers, just saying there's a bit of a quantum leap from animals to humans. The ones who go on to inflict their perversions on people were probably going to do it anyway.

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to cruelty to animals. Cruelty towards animals that look nice or are frequently kept as pets seems to be regarded as far more heinous than cruelty towards animals that are generally regarded as pests, such as cane toads. Personally, I don't like killing cane toads. It is not their fault that they were imported into Australia. But many people who would never consider cruelty to a kitten have no compunction in taking a golf club to a cane toad. My cruelty threshold reaches a little lower down the evolutionary scale - I have no compuntion about killing insects or bacteria that can pose a health hazard, but I am happy enough to let the native fauna compete with feral imports. If they cannot withstand the competition, so be it - let evolution take its course.

Rocker

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Originally Posted by silentC

His name was Tiddles and he could jump 5 feet in the air from a standing start.

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'specially with a burning bum.

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Originally Posted by silentC

He went a bit wild in the end and it took about 10 ticks to kill him.

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Yeah, tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick...tick.........BOOM

:eek:

:D

Dan

Silent,

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Originally Posted by Eastie

...path some may choose.....

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:p

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Originally Posted by Eastie

Silent,
:p

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You could probably use it as an indicator of future 'problems'. It wouldn't hurt to have these things on record and keep an eye on them because it probably does indicate someone with the potential to do worse things. You just have to be careful that the ones who are doing it because their parents didn't teach them any better aren't caught up in it.

How many supreme court judges pulled the wings off flies when they were young?

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

I think you lot are funny.

We train people to kill people ( the Army dude/s )
And when he/they killed a kitten you all get upset. :confused:

Al :confused:

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I didn't think they were trained to kill until they were all set to go to a theatre of war.
Pointing a gun at a target hardly constitutes training to kill.
We weren't taught anything until we went to that wonderful Qld resort, Kunungra, oh joy oh joy, balmy weather, beautiful flora, abundant wildlife and pleasant Seargants requesting we work a little better :p :rolleyes:
And I was in the RAAF.

What really happened to the cat, Silent?

What are you on about Eastie? :p

Dan, I'm shocked that would think me capable of such a thing. :D

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

I think you lot are funny.

We train people to kill people ( the Army dude/s )
And when he/they killed a kitten you all get upset. :confused:

Al :confused:

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Al,

I thought they trained these military people to keep world peace and so we can be proud of our flag!

That's what I was told at school and anyone who suggested anything about killing was called a radical and received the strap. That made us respect their views and see sense.

Are you a long haired pot smoking disrepectful radical Al?

Iain,

You are right, the most destructive and cruel animal is in plague proportions.

Should it be culled?

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

Are you a long haired pot smoking disrepectful radical Al?

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Used to have long hair, never smoked pot, the rest is true.

Al :p

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never smoked pot

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Yeah right. And I didn't inhale...

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Originally Posted by Rocker

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to cruelty to animals. Cruelty towards animals that look nice or are frequently kept as pets seems to be regarded as far more heinous than cruelty towards animals that are generally regarded as pests, such as cane toads.

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I agree wholeheartedly, but keep making the distinction between merely killing them quickly and quietly, and torture!

In that respect isn't Ozwinner correct? No fuss is made over troops actually killing Iraqi soldiers, just when they are captured and humiliated. Given the choice between the two, I know which one I'd pick.

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Personally, I don't like killing cane toads. It is not their fault that they were imported into Australia. But many people who would never consider cruelty to a kitten have no compunction in taking a golf club to a cane toad.

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I don't like it either, but I do. We don't get many, but the little buggers could give rabbits a lesson in the rooting stakes, and make one heck of a mess of my fish pond population. Since the inhabitants are considered pets, I do what I can to preserve them.

I don't use golf clubs which mostly just stun the poor things, a heavy blow with the flat of a shovel is quick and effective. I understand that some do take advantage of the cold-blooded nature of the animal and freeze them, which is apparently very humane, but I've been accidentally locked in a freezer with no lights and wouldn't wish that on a toad!

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My cruelty threshold reaches a little lower down the evolutionary scale - I have no compuntion about killing insects or bacteria that can pose a health hazard, but I am happy enough to let the native fauna compete with feral imports. If they cannot withstand the competition, so be it - let evolution take its course.

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Butterflys don't count surely? OR BITING MIDGES:eek: :eek: :eek:

Ironically gold fish (carp) are one of the few species which can develop a resistance to the toad toxins.... if evolution takes it's course unassisted we could end up living in a very nasty world although at the rate our native plants and animals take control in other environments, Florida or NZ will look like home before we know it!

Cheers,

P (Foundation member of the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Insects.) :D :D :D

yeah - just sat downwind of those who were on pot.

On my uncles property in northern NSW I went roo shooting with my 'cousins' (there really is only two big families in town :rolleyes: ).
I didn't mind shooting the roos as it had to be done, but at one point when the first bullet didn't kill it they would refuse to waste another bullet and kick it to death.
With rabbits they didn't waste the first bullet but would spotlight it and catch it live, then let the dogs play with it.
I was nearly physically ill, I never went again.

Shooting bunnies on the local golf course back in Melbourne was okay as any that were winged immediatly had their neck snapped.

Incidently it is a lot easier to shoot something than it is to kill it with your hands, the gun seems to remove you from the reality of what you are doing.

So how come if someone was to put a plastic bag over a kitten's head and leave it in the sun to suffocate, they would be cruel, but if they were to take a fish out of water and do the same, it's ok??

Fish don't have eyebrows.

So because they can't wince does that make it perfectly acceptable behaviour?

If one was to put a kitten on a string and pull it anywhere against it's wishes (but let's say for the purpose of this example into a creek) then one would be rightly accused of cruelty, yet one can do that to a fish, using attachements that penetrate it's flesh and be considered a "sportsman".

P (gone fishing to think this through!)

:eek: :eek: :cool:

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

If one was to put a kitten on a string and pull it anywhere against it's wishes (but let's say for the purpose of this example into a creek) then one would be rightly accused of cruelty, yet one can do that to a fish, using attachements that penetrate it's flesh and be considered a "sportsman".

P (gone fishing to think this through!)

:eek: :eek: :cool:

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I have nothing aginast killing animals to feed yourself hey that's life !
Killing / tortutre for pleasure or sport only is definetely not OK in my books
At least when you fish you give the fish a chance nothing is forcing him to take the bait Killing a Deer from 500m with rifle & sight is slaughter killing it with a bow & arrow now that's sportsmanship (considering you eat it after too) !
And I see myself as strong animal rights believer.

nic