The carbon tax is wonderful

I was wrong about the carbon tax. It's a great idea. New Zealand have had theirs only 18 months and look what it's already done...

Snow falls in Auckland for first time in decades - National - NZ Herald News

clearly they have that nasty global warming, oops I mean climate CHANGE, oops I mean "clean energy future" on the run.

On a more serious note this paper soon to be published here

APJAS :: Asia-Pacific Journal of Atmospheric Sciences

might shake a few trees.

http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lind...-Choi-2011.pdf

Damian, better prepare yorself for some negative feed back in your reputation:doh:

The last time I put up a (light hearted) thread like that (https://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/ju...4/#post1325550) I got a "reddy" from one of our members (devoid of a sense of humour), that said, and I quote, "Learn the difference between weather and climate", so there.

It appears that climate change is not to be the subject of humour, bit like religion really:rolleyes:

Got my coffee , might get a pizza in and watch the fun

I hope the carbon tax will encourage (or force) people to consume less energy. The way we live is not sustainable and it has to change.

Ashore, get me a BBQ supreme:2tsup:

Meat lovers please.

Wongo can I have all your power tools especially the :secret:
when you start using less power. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wongo

The way we live is not sustainable and it has to change.

---

...meh...my grandkids will sort out the mess...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Wongo can I have all your power tools especially the :secret:
when you start using less power. :D

---

I said use less not don't use any at all. Now stop using those childish arguments.


No you can't have my Domino. :U

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Damian, better prepare yorself for some negative feed back in your reputation:doh:

It appears that climate change is not to be the subject of humour, bit like religion really:rolleyes:

---

I doubt very much there are any "true believers" left on the forum who are not yet aware of my position on climate change. If there are do me a favour and read over the many previous threads on the matter before trying to preach to me again.

Wongo:

I agree we live an unsustainable lifestyle and I agree it would be good if we could reduce pollution and consumption of resources.

The carbon tax will greatly reduce carbon emissions from Australia.

Yes - The companies involved will move to none carbon tax countries and continue on.

Just in case you get a reddie I'll give you a greenie to preempt it. :D And Big Shed you get one too. :D


Peter.

I've said it before - climate debate aside it is well past time that we stopped trashing our home!! :C

I actually agree with a carbon tax.

There are other questions that we need to look at.

Can we afford it? Maybe not.

Should we be paying for it? Yes.

Can it be avoided? Not sure.

Is there something else? That I leave open for discussion.

I see the biggest problem with the 'carbon tax' is simply a matter of semantics....
Call it a 'pollution tax' and explain to the panicking public that all it means is that the biggest polluters pay to help cleanup the mess they make...
just like many other countries do.......simple really

Well said Undie :2tsup: You can have a greenie for that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Shed

It appears that climate change is not to be the subject of humour, bit like religion really:rolleyes:

---

Nothing wrong with religion that a few miracles wouldn't cure:D
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Just in case you get a reddie I'll give you a greenie to preempt it. :D And Big Shed you get one too. :D


Peter.

---

Thank you Peter, very magnanimous of you:2tsup:

Absolutely amazing how fanatical, petty and narrow minded some people can be:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Absolutely amazing how fanatical, petty and narrow minded some people can be:(

---

agreed....
now back to the topic....
what is the problem with polluting industries covering the cost of cleaning up after themselves :?
..is it because the cost may be passed down the line to us?....well duh.

As far as I can see there is no problem with getting polluting companies to clean up after themselves, in fact I'd go a step further and I would like to see ALL polluters clean up after themselves, not just a few carefully targeted companies.

It is how we achieve this that is important and I am not at all convinced that putting a tax on a relatively small number of companies is going to achieve anything, other than to export our emissions and jobs to China.

I also have a real problem with a Prime Minister making these decisons purely to stay in power, under pressure from a (very) minor party, particularly after stating categorically duing her election campaign that "there will be no carbon tax".

By all means do something about carbon emissions, but in a democracry we are entitled to vote based on true information, not blatant untruths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Shed

...

By all means do something about carbon emissions, but in a democracry we are entitled to vote based on true information, not blatant untruths.

---

What a novel idea - as we live in a democracy - we could have a referendem or better still - Let's have an election on this issue and let the people speak. :doh:

Don't really understand why the pollies haven't thought of this :roll:

Yeah,
I know there will be a few issues with rising sea levels, but I still can't wait to see the Gold Coast go under.
Greg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg Ward

Yeah,
I know there will be a few issues with rising sea levels, but I still can't wait to see the Gold Coast go under.
Greg

---

Why, so the criminals can go elsewhere?

And the Sydney harbourside mansions

Greg

That's OK Mosman can go down as long as it doesn't overflow the river across the road from my house. :U

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wongo

That's OK Mosman can go down as long as it doesn't overflow the river across the road from my house. :U

---

You should be used to boating though Wongo :boat:

Wongo has enough tas blackwood timber to build an ark, and I can get someone to do one in the red cedar at Cremorne.
Just as the beautiful Julia says: 'Bring it on..... Bring it on......'
Greg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg Ward

Wongo has enough tas blackwood timber to build an ark, and I can get someone to do one in the red cedar at Cremorne.
Just as the beautiful Julia says: 'Bring it on..... Bring it on......'
Greg

---

If the sea level reaches that high Greg you'll have your own anchorage, fishing deck. Gone will be Manly to Palm Beach, Parrarmatta low lying areas of Banskstown, Punchbowl will at last look like one.

More seas mean more fishing.
More water means more rain
We may at last get that inland sea the early explorers were seeking.
It all sounds pretty good to me.
Especially the bit about the Gold Coast .........
And Wongo's ark.... he already made a few small boats, now he gets to make the real thing and imagine the beautiful joints.
Greg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Shed

By all means do something about carbon emissions, but in a democracry we are entitled to vote based on true information, not blatant untruths.

---

Huh?

In a democracy we are entitled to vote based on our opinions/beliefs.

We also have the right to ask for facts. But beyond that? :no:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Huh?

In a democracy we are entitled to vote based on our opinions/beliefs.

We also have the right to ask for facts. But beyond that? :no:

---

Nope, not "entitled" to vote, it is compulsory.

We may have the right to ask for facts, we don't seem to have the right to receive honest answers:no:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by damian

I agree we live an unsustainable lifestyle and I agree it would be good if we could reduce pollution and consumption of resources.

---

Isn't that what the carbon tax is supposed to do?

Weird how we survived a 10% GST but the carbon tax will kill us all. How about we have the carbon tax and scrap GST? Everyone happy then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dropcat

Isn't that what the carbon tax is supposed to do?

Weird how we survived a 10% GST but the carbon tax will kill us all. How about we have the carbon tax and scrap GST? Everyone happy then?

---

Just a couple of questions Dropcat , were any taxes removed when the GST came in
Is the money collected by the GST spent in Australia,
And didn't Howard go to an election with the intention of introducing the GST anounced before that election :?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashore

Just a couple of questions Dropcat , were any taxes removed when the GST came in
Is the money collected by the GST spent in Australia,
And didn't Howard go to an election with the intention of introducing the GST anounced before that election :?

---

Sure, sales tax (most) vanished. Prices still went up though...

Not sure that the point of the other two bits is. GST stays in Aust as does the carbon tax, (but GST isn't applied to exports but CT is), and who cares who introduced GST?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dropcat

GST stays in Aust as does the carbon tax, (but GST isn't applied to exports but CT is), and who cares who introduced GST?

---

Um not all the carbon tax will not stay in Australia it is proposed to purchase offsets overseas.
I'd perhaps suggest do some research into the subject.
The point was Howard went to an election to allow the public to decide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Um not all the carbon tax will not stay in Australia it is proposed to purchase offsets overseas.
I'd perhaps suggest do some research into the subject.
The point was Howard went to an election to allow the public to decide.

---

Fair enough on the offsets, but the point was cost of exported goods.

And I don't recall a referendum being held on whether to introduce a GST. I must have been asleep that day.

No-one voted for a GST, they votes for a party that had introduction of a GST as one of their policies (which also included keeping those brown people where they belong).

OK so how is increasing the cost of exports a good thing.

No you were not asleep.

Yes that's correct the party that went to an election with the GST as a policy won it. What were Julia's words again "there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" therein lies the problem Bob Brown actually leads the government.

And no I won't enter a race debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

OK so how is increasing the cost of exports a good thing.
Yes that's correct the party that went to an election with the GST as a policy won it. What were Julia's words again "there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead" therein lies the problem Bob Brown actually leads the government.
And no I won't enter a race debate.

---

Yeah, prices going up is a bad thing. Exports prices have gone up recently anyway, let's regulate the dollar again.

You can't single out GST as a vote winner, after all who in their right mind would vote for a tax? The election was won for other reasons.

And never mind about politicians changing their minds, that's what they do. Dunno why people are so surprised. As you pointed out the Howard wasn't going to have a GST either, just in his case an election came before its introduction date. (Still it did take him a while to change his mind).

I'm more bemused than anything by this whole 'debate', why anyone actually gives a rats left testicle is beyond me.

Say the carbon tax increases your power bill. Ignoring tax cuts & other bribes, how much would be too much before you march on Parliament and burn it to the ground? 5%? 10%? 20%? 50%?

People seem not to have noticed that power bills have increased by over 100% (ie double!) in the past few years. What's the current increase, 20%?

Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets? Why no passionate 'debate' about the increases?

Weird.

Think I'll go play with lathe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dropcat

Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets? Why no passionate 'debate' about the increases?

---

No rioting but there is a fair bit of heated debate/protest especially from normally quiet middle aust (OK perhaps more the blue rinse set):rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Think I'll go play with lathe.

---

Yep this subject gets boring quickly might as well wait till the next election, now that will be interesting to see how the libs handle the CT. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m2c1Iw

Yep this subject gets boring quickly might as well wait till the next election, now that will be interesting to see how the libs handle the CT.

---

Probably double the rate & build more coal powered stations.

It's amusing to see the arguments & positions follow exactly the same path that the 'hole in the ozone layer' went along.

Australia need less 'debate' and more 'pulling finger out of rear ends'.

We could have nuclear power here in 5 years, that's how long it takes to build a plant. They come in kit form these days, hopefully with a manual. It's not like we're short of the 'glow in the dark' stuff.

We gave solar cell production to the Chinese, nice going there.

How about funding geothermal?

Or research in commercialising aerogel, with that as insulation you wouldn't have much of a power bill.

"Why no complaining? Why no rioting in the streets?"

Haven't you noticed all the convoys of no confidence heading for this little rural NSW town at the moment? Some twit is sure to do something stupid and you could have your riot. Anyway they have the powers that be so worried that we have been told to keep of the roads during peak times tomorrow.

Regards