Australian flag fail ...

I've been participating in a thread on another site which has unfortunately been closed. I was wondering what the good folks here thought. (Southern Cross reversed on flag! - IceInSpace)

In summary:

• Recent ceremony in Fromelles, France for fallen WWI soldiers
• Aussie flag flown at half mast is clearly wrong
• Southern Cross on the flag has been reversed (5th star is on the left, not right where it should be)
• Pedantic issue, yes I agree. Is it still important to get an official answer for though?

Here's my own blog post showing the problem.

Here's a YouTube vid of the "oversight"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Ow-a-xc-E"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]


Cheers,
Af.

This I saw some time ago elsewhere

As one person commented what is it like looking at it from the otherside??

Does that mean if the flag is viewed from the opposite side the Union Jack is to the outer edge??

It's not a mirror image. If it were (or if they mirrored the video shot for "composition") then it would still be incorrect.

You see, the 5th star should be closer to the outside edge of the flag. The flag they were flying at Fromelles is wrong. The 5th star is on the inside closer to the Union Jack.

It's as if they cut the flag in half and flipped over the southern cross portion then stitched it back together.

Probably outsourced its manufacture to China.:rolleyes:

Its not the first time, I recall when at primary school the Government had handed out new school flags only to find that the Union Jack had been sewn together wrong spacing of the crosses (can't recall which way). Then another time a Flag flown in public view only had 5 not 6 points or was it 7 instead of 6 these were made here in OZ.

Should it have happened... no, that said mistakes happen. Making a big deal of it just cheapens the occasion by overshadowing the reason for the ceremony. My name bar at work only has 4 stars on the southern cross, its only ever been noticed by one person and I have been wearing it for over 15 years:wink:

I agree that it should have been right, but overall the position of epsilon doesn't make that much difference to the ceremony about people who displayed amazing courage and lost their lives for others...

I suspect that a correct flag would have been quietly substituted as soon as it was drawn to their attention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozkaban

I agree that it should have been right, but overall the position of epsilon doesn't make that much difference to the ceremony about people who displayed amazing courage and lost their lives for others...

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I agree with these sentiments completely. It's not my aim to diminish their sacrifice nor the ceremony.

I am just very confused how such an error could have been made. Aren't flags like this made/authorised in some way? Perhaps there's another plausible explanation but everyone I've spoken to has declined to comment or just says "they're looking into it."

Cheers,
Af.

It's only "recently" that the stars of the cross, except Epsilon, were changed from six points to seven. The seven pointed Federation Star represents the six States and the Territories.

soth

The mystery has been solved!

Here's what I wrote on my blog regarding a phone call I received this morning ...

Today I finally managed to get through to someone who could give me answers to the mysterious flag issue I wrote about earlier. The Honorable Allan Griffin current Minster for Veterans’ Affairs called me after I sent an email to his office this morning. Yes, he himself actually called! Unfortunately I didn’t get to the phone so could only listen to his message. I contacted his office back and spoke to one of his staff who was extremely helpful.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission ordered the flag from their usually reputable supplier in France (whose name I didn’t get). For some reason the flag which was delivered was not to Australian standards. The Southern Cross was reversed, the Union Jack was upside down and the entire flag didn’t conform to normal Australian standard sizes (instead it was the usual European size).

The person I spoke to informed me that a replacement was ordered on Wednesday 3rd February and the correct flag has now been flying at the site. The process for ordering these flags has apparently also been tightened and the Honorable Greg Combett Minster for Defence and his office are also on top of it.

Obviously none of this should take away from the ceremony itself nor the lives these brave people laid down for our freedom.

Case closed.

Cheers,
Af.

Now that is interesting.

As you said, case closed :2tsup:

EDIT: good on you for digging into it.

The French acutally take a lot of care of our Diggers remains over there. I have visited a WWII burial ground to see the resting place of one of my great (great) uncles. The place was clean and beautifully manicured, with a couple of grounds keepers on site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparhawk

The French acutally take a lot of care of our Diggers remains over there. I have visited a WWII burial ground to see the resting place of one of my great (great) uncles. The place was clean and beautifully manicured, with a couple of grounds keepers on site.

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Sounds great. I've heard similar reports. My wife really wants to go and visit all these places so one day I hope to visit them as well with her.

I'm just glad that they have the correct flag flying now.

The ABC have put an article online regarding this: Wrong flag used in Fromelles burials - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I also understand there is an article in the Sydney Morning Herald today. Any good folks up north care to scan in a copy for me?

Thanks,
Af.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sparhawk

The French acutally take a lot of care of our Diggers remains over there. I have visited a WWII burial ground to see the resting place of one of my great (great) uncles. The place was clean and beautifully manicured, with a couple of grounds keepers on site.

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First time in France many moons ago a bunch of us hop off the tour bus and start walking around this little village when a guy in his 60's stops and ask if we're Aussies - not Australians mind you! We answer "Yes" that four of us are and the next thing we know it's party time in France! Turns out the diggers liberated the countryside around this place in WW1 and the locals never forgot our boys. There were at least a dozen Aussie flags in windows and on walls of houses just on the main street that I hadn't noticed until then. I was told the kids are told stories about the heroic Aussies in school and every year they raise an Australian and French flag on Bastille and Armistice Days! You can keep the majority of the frogs from the big cities and don't get me started about the bloody Queeebeccccers but the French country people are salt of the earth!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corbs

My name bar at work only has 4 stars on the southern cross, its only ever been noticed by one person and I have been wearing it for over 15 years:wink:

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never knew you were a Kiwi Corbs

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Originally Posted by ian

never knew you were a Kiwi Corbs

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I'm no Kiwi bro:wink:... I don't do no fush und chups un sux shups cuz:D

Just got a dodgy name bar:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corbs

I'm no Kiwi bro:wink:... I don't do no fush und chups un sux shups cuz:D

Just got a dodgy name bar:rolleyes:

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sounds like someone's had a lend of you -- you know the Kiwi flag only has 4 stars in the "cross"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ian

sounds like someone's had a lend of you -- you know the Kiwi flag only has 4 stars in the "cross"

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Yeah but my stars are blue on a White Ensign, the Kiwi's have red stars:wink:

I would post a pic but my name bars @ work.

glad this is put to rest.

if you are interested, find out about the penny scheme in victorian public schools just after WWII and then the response by the French schools to the Kinglake fires.

I will not hear a bad word about the French public when it comes to the respect that they pay to the WWI and WWII Aussie diggers; they pay their respects in a way that should shame other countries.
As for minor stuff ups by flag suppliers, I am sure the French public raised objections as well.

I respect the care shown by Afro boy... well done... but stuff ups happen... but the French are amazing in how they express their respect for those that died defending their rights to self determination. This should be recognised.

I have been wanting to go to Villiers Bretaneaus for as long as I can remember. I have met some people who have been there and they are always greeted as brothers by the Frenc

The same happens in Turkey. Even thought we fought against them the Turks, thanks to Attaturk, have immense respect for Australians and Kiwis. To go to Gallipoli and see how well the place is kept is humbling. The Turkish guide we had on our tour had an amazing knowledge of the history of the whole campaign and took obvious pride in showing us around and answering questions.

The Australian flag flies proudly in many parts of the world. I Don't like stuff-ups but at least the effort was made and for the right reasons. I think we can forgive this one.

The respect and attitude of the French in the Somme area towards those who fought on their behalf is certainly a lesson that all could learn from. Doing our own thing and staying in B&B's rather than large town hotels was certainly an eye-opener. I also met "Shrapnel Charlie" [Ivan Sinnaeve] who made a model of an Australian soldier out of lead shrapnel and gave it to me on the proviso that I send him an email postcard when I got home telling him that another had been returned home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

I have been wanting to go to Villiers Bretaneaus for as long as I can remember. I have met some people who have been there and they are always greeted as brothers by the French.

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don't put it off. I stayed in Arras and visited the Australian memorial in 1997 and will return for longer visit when my son is a little older.
It's something all SAussies who can should do.