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Hi all,
Haven't been around for a while, so I hope everyone is having a good new year.
Not a fine furniture question, but I hope someone can help.
I'm watching a pine desk on ebay and it has a beeswax finish on it.
I want to stain the desk to match one we already have, so I wonder if it is possible to remove the beeswax thoroughly enough for the stain to take.
Thanks,
Molly.:)
Anyone got any idea?:D
Turps or white spirits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollywood
Thankyou sprog.:2tsup:
I've not had much luck with turp dissolving beeswax, I think it takes way too much to get it all. I don't work with mineral spirits often, so I can't speak to that.
I would start with heat and a rag if it is just wax to remove the bulk then move to either solvents or sandpaper.
ron.
G'day Molly - Generous amounts of turpentine, worked well with steel wool (medium to finer grade - not too course) and lots of clean absorbent rag.
Heat will help if the wax is over a finish but if it's on the raw timber it will only drive it deeper into the timber.
Cheers - Neil :U
you should actually be using Pure Gum Turpentine - not Mineral Turpentine.
It is what I have been selling for removal of it for some years now and always works.
It will still require lots of "elbow grease" but it is what it is sold for - liquifying waxes and turning a wax into a polish.
Mineral turpentine will remove the wax at the same rate the pure gum turpentine will.
However..... and this is a big however. Mineral turpentine is much safer health wise to use than gum turps. It is also a lot cheaper and more readily available.
If you use pure gum turpentine don't get any on your skin and do it in a really well ventilated area. Gum turpentine is the reason why many artists of old were more than a bit ratty. It causes brain problems and prolonged exposure can cause kidney failure if absorbed through the pores of the skin .
If you have skin, lung (asthma etc), liver or kidney problems you should avoid using pure gum turpentine.
More than likely the wax was made with mineral turpentine or white spirit as the solvent rather than gum turps, especially if it were home made. This has no bearing what so ever on the removal of the wax just a general comment/observation.
In the removal of wax you need to really pour the turps on, using copious amounts of gum turps isn't really a good idea because of the health hazards attached.
Signs and symptoms of exposure to this material through vapours, breathing, and/or passage of the material through the skin may include:Cheers - Neil :U
eye irritation, conjunctivitis or corneal burns, irritation to (nose, throat, airways), central nervous system, depression (dizziness, drowsiness, weakness, fatigue, nausea, headache, unconsciousness), bladder or kidney damage, and death
Remember this is a board of australian origin and when we say turps we generaly mean mineral turps...what I believe the americans would call mineral spirits.
you may find white spirit marginaly better......it evaporates cleanly and does not have the oily content that mineral turps has.....
Thus it is less likely to contaminate the surface, will evaporate more quickly & cleanly and may have a marginaly better solvent action and ability to hold the wax in solution.
cheers
I guess that perhaps the other thing to clarify is whether or not when you say the surface of the pine desk has been bees waxed polish, is what the actual surface finish is.
For instance, if it is an old piece it may actually have a shellac finish with bees wax coating to provide a lustre. If this were the case, then Mineral Turps in fact would not be of any use and instead Metho and steel wool, or if necessary, even paint stripper to get back to the bare surface would be far more effective.
Well see that also depends on what you want to remove....if you just want to remove the wax turps or white spirit is still the go...because that should leave shelac more or less in tact.
In fact if you want to strip quite a few other thinks you would be best removing the wax with turps or white spirit and then addressing the underlying coating seperately
If you were realy gung ho.....using some sort of hydrocarbon alcahol brew... it laquer thinners would be appropriate......but you are talking different approaches and goals.
cheers
Neil's warning about gum turps should be heeded. Note that other similar solvents can be absorbed through the skin as well as the lungs.
For example this quote:
"White spirit is mainly classed as an irritant.
White spirit has a fairly low acute toxicity by inhalation of the vapour, dermal (touching the skin) and oral routes (ingestion). However, acute exposure can lead to central nervous system depression resulting in lack of coordination and slowed reactions. Exposure to very high concentrations in enclosed spaces can lead to general narcotic effects (drowsiness, dizziness, nausea etc...) and can eventually lead to unconsciousness. Oral ingestion presents a high aspiration hazard. Prolonged or repeated skin exposure over a long period of time can result in severe irritant dermatitis, also called contact dermatitis. It is highly recommended that skin exposure is kept to a minimum by use of gloves and that hands are washed after coming into contact with it. Occasional exposure to skin is highly unlikely to cause any problems.
Exposure to an average white spirit concentration of 240 mg/m3 (40 ppm) for more than 13 years could lead to chronic central nervous system effects. White spirit is implicated in the development of "chronic toxic encephalopathy" among house painters.
Owing to the volatility and low bioavailability of its constituents, white spirit, although it is moderately toxic to aquatic organisms, is unlikely to present significant hazards to the environment. It should not however, be purposely poured down the sink or freshwater drain if avoidable. It should be disposed of correctly wherever possible."
seriously almost all solvents and finish products we use will have similar or related effects to those listed in the post above...when in similar exposures..
Almost all will be absorbed thru the skin.
White spirits and turps ( mineral spirits)......are among the safer and least toxic solvents we use...and very much safer than " natural turps".
cheers
I used Vodka on a polished table top and it seems to have removed all the previous waxes
but I had better check the table again tomorrow when its sober.
les
I hope it wasn't the $40 per bottle stuff
Re the posting from Saskatoon, while I think it is perfectly fine and sensible to provide the warning re the toxicities of such substances, that being the purpose of a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) to provide the user or receiver of chemical substances with such information, in truth no one seriously is likely to ingest such materials, or be exposed to them over a long and consistent time frame.
Therefore in practical terms it is wise to apply a degree of common sense and appropriate precautions with what ever substance one applies to a surface to remove an old finish, be it Vodka :D, Metho :2tsup:, paint stripper or whatever.
It may well be that mineral spirits is less toxic than "natural turps" however I get a headache when a can of mineral spirits is opened but not when gum turps is opened. I have a similar reaction to many petrol based solvents and oils. I'll stick with gum turps and continue using resperator and gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman
ron
yeh well here is the problem.
Many people are sensitive to various chemicals, and experience greater short term effects than others.
There are also people who seem to be resistant or feel little or no short term effects from certain chemicals.
BUT we can not depend on our sense of smell or our reaction to chemicals as an indicator of their toxisity.
There are many chemicals, that may have very little indication by the way of short term effects of their long term toxisity.
The effects of these sneaky chemicals occur regardless of how safe you percieve them.
A great many of our most toxic substances present little or no short term indicators of their long term effects.
There is no point using a more dangerous chemical and then applying personal protective equipment.
If you are relyng on PPE, the protective equipment should be in place prior to opening the container....
This PPE you are relying upon, are you sure it is capable of dealing with the toxins in question, and how do you assess you PPE for continued effectiveness.
many organic solvent cartridges will remove the components that produce the short term effects (simple hydrocarbons), ( masking the danger) but allow the sneaky nasty stuff to pass.
Also if the cartridge is past its effective life, it may be allowing past the chemicals it is designed to stop..and you will have no clue...
As for gloves....even the best nitrile gloves will not hold out solvents indefinitely...or in immersion for for very long at all.
White spirit and turps.......I would call.....honest chemicals......their short term effects reflect their toxisity.
Gum turpentine...is one of those chemicals where the long term dangers......are possibly not reflected in their short term effects.
I will go back to a regular assertion heard here about.....there is no good reason to use gum terpentine, it is documented as having far greater health effect than mineral replacements which work every bit as well...in some cases better.
cheers
Ubeaut and Soundman make perfect sense. My post was meant to suggest that reactions to solvents will vary between people. Years ago (pre-OHSW?) my brother had to give up a good job in screen-printing because he became sensitised to one or more solvents.
Cheers