Finishing my mandolins

Hi all

I'm currently finishing my solidbody mandolins with Cabothane Gelclear, complete with brushmarks and lots of hair and rough bits on the endgrain. While I was at the Adelaide WWW show I bought some Ubeaut sanding sealer, but I'm also thinking maybe their traditional wax could be a good finish.

A question or several:

Does the sanding sealer go over the stain (Wattyl Wood Gel) or can it go over after some light sanding?

Does traditional wax give a water and spilt alcohol-proof coating?

How hard is the finish, and how thick? Can you keep applying more wax to build up a thicker coat?

Any and all input gratefully accepted!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JupiterCreek

Hi all

I'm currently finishing my solidbody mandolins!!

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Solid body mandolins???

Im very interested...tell me more about these babies.

Martin

Hi kiwigeo

It all started with the Less Paul Very Junior, now it's grown into a small venture making solidbody mandos and octave guitars, and I'm working on solidbody ukes and guitars too!

It's all good clean fun, except for the sawdust and swarf and ruined paintbrushes and necks that go wrong and bodies that don't quite work out and cold wet nights in the shed and my poor neglected fiance who used to quite like the fact that I played a bit of guitar! :-)

G'day.
I play a guitar & do woodwork BUT don't think for one minute that I have any
idea what I'm talking about when it comes to finishes on musical instruments....
However... I think that most modern solid body instruments are finished with
sprayed Nitrocellulose Lacquer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JupiterCreek

Hi kiwigeo

It all started with the Less Paul Very Junior, now it's grown into a small venture making solidbody mandos and octave guitars, and I'm working on solidbody ukes and guitars too!

It's all good clean fun, except for the sawdust and swarf and ruined paintbrushes and necks that go wrong and bodies that don't quite work out and cold wet nights in the shed and my poor neglected fiance who used to quite like the fact that I played a bit of guitar! :-)

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Very interesting stuff....the solidbody ukes are very unusual.....and (dare I say it) downright "cute".

My wife and your fiancee could probably spend hours sharing thoughts on their partners obsession with luthiery. Mine is actually very understanding.......she'd rather have me busy out in the workshop making sawdust than hanging around the house driving her nuts.

Youve probably seen the discussion I started on humidity and luthiery but I guess if soild bodies are your game its probably less of an issue.

Cheers Martin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JupiterCreek

Hi all

I'm currently finishing my solidbody mandolins with Cabothane Gelclear, complete with brushmarks and lots of hair and rough bits on the endgrain. While I was at the Adelaide WWW show I bought some Ubeaut sanding sealer, but I'm also thinking maybe their traditional wax could be a good finish.

A question or several:

Does the sanding sealer go over the stain (Wattyl Wood Gel) or can it go over after some light sanding?

Does traditional wax give a water and spilt alcohol-proof coating?

How hard is the finish, and how thick? Can you keep applying more wax to build up a thicker coat?

Any and all input gratefully accepted!!

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Jupiter

Have you checked out the Luthier's Merchantile Int and Stewmac sites? I think one or both sites have on line info on alot of stuff. If you order the LMI catalogue they throw in a really valuable folder chock full of information on just about every aspect of luthiery.

If you dont want to go to the bother of getting the above then email me your postal address and Ill send you a photocopy of relevant sections of the catalogue that deal with solid body finishing....Im offshore working right now but should be able to action a request in 2-3 weeks time when I get home.

Martin

Hi Cliff

Yep. Fender uses polyester, Gibson uses nitrocellulose, all sprayed, polished and buffed. Reranch sell a range of aerosol nitrocelluslose lacquers in the USA but they can't/won't ship them overseas. I realise I can send my bodies and necks out to someone to spray and polish them, but I want to see what finishes are possible without either sending them out or buying spray gear and learning how to use it myself. For example I've seen some great finshes with a wiped on finish of Birchwood-Casey's Tru-Oil. The finish quality I was seeing in the demos at the Ubeaut stand at the Adelaide WWW show blew me away, so I was wondering how their products would maybe suit my purposes.

Jupiter,

I guess you with the short necks on your instruments you wouldnt need a truss rod....have you had any issues with warp on the necks?

Have just noticed your location.....and your age. A 46 year old luthier living in Adelaide......youre not in the hills too are you? Whats the bet youre living a couple of houses down the street????

Martin

Hi Martin

Give us a scream when you return! We're in the same city after all!

Neither Stewmac nor LMII can ship aerosols overseas apparently. I haven't seen the LMI catalog, although I visit their and Stewmac's website frequently (and Stairway to Kevin's website so I can tell Craig at Guitarworks the part numbers of the bits I need!).

No trussrod, just a 6mm steel rod for reinforcing set in epoxy.

I'm in the western suburbs. Cowandilla.

Catch you when you get back!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JupiterCreek

Hi Martin

Give us a scream when you return! We're in the same city after all!

Neither Stewmac nor LMII can ship aerosols overseas apparently. I haven't seen the LMI catalog, although I visit their and Stewmac's website frequently (and Stairway to Kevin's website so I can tell Craig at Guitarworks the part numbers of the bits I need!).

Catch you when you get back!

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Oh yeah thats right..I recall a spiel in their catalogues about shipping dangerous goods.

Roger on the catch up when I get back

Cheers

Martin

Jupiter,

I am not so sure that you'll get away with wax....I have thought about it, but it'll go all gooey on the heavily used bits.

Danish Oil will probably work pretty well though, with a zillion coats buffed in between and left for a week or two to harden (sorry...polymerise) properly.

That's where my thought processes have got ot any way, but lacquer is probably used by the big boys for a reason....like it's easy to keep looking the way it was meant to be.

I am sure you'll find that with a small Supercheap or GMC compressor and a touch-up gun, or even a cheap airbrush for the scale you are working at, you will easily get a better job than a spray can, and will be miles ahead of brushing.

Trouble is, you'll want to start spraying everything!

Cheers,

P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

......Trouble is, you'll want to start spraying everything!

Cheers,

P

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And the trouble with that is....?

Mick (who can't remeber the last time he needed to clean a paintbrush ;) )

I'm with you Mick!

If it don't come out of a gun,
it don't get done!

Hmmm maybe I should spray that on the wall. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

And the trouble with that is....?

Mick (who can't remeber the last time he needed to clean a paintbrush ;) )

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Trouble is that you don't ever get time to do anything else....the car needs doing now, then the fridge, oh doesn't the washing machine look shabby...you reckon the cupboard doors would look good in avocado?

Oh these black shoes could be brown in a second....

and on and on and on and on it goes....

That's what I meant by EVERYTHING!!!!

:D :D :D
P

There used to be a bloke on the Gold Coast that used a spray outfit
to apply SunScreen to semi naked bodies... :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

There used to be a bloke on the Gold Coast that used a spray outfit
to apply SunScreen to semi naked bodies... :D

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Of course there are some finishes that should be applied by hand and then rubbed back. :D

Mick

Thanks for the info.

So those $99 GMC compressors are worth buying? I'd read some less than flattering reviews on cheap compressors on a few forums, the but they look like value for money, and I'm not exactly spraying houses or shipping comtainers!

Are they easy enough to use? I guess I could always learn by spraying instant tan onto my long suffering fiance. She'll go from looking like Courtney Love to looking like Marcia Hines in a weekend!

A compressor, a touch-up gun... what else is needed? Water trap, anything else? Once again all suggestions gratefully accepted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JupiterCreek

I guess I could always learn by spraying instant tan onto my long suffering fiance. She'll go from looking like Courtney Love to looking like Marcia Hines in a weekend!

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Just be sure to put the pics up on your website :)

Rob

The nitrocellulose lacquer for guitars is available from PPG which is a brand of products used in the automotive industry. Contact your local panelbeater spraypainter and I am sure you will be able to obtain these products. If you start to spray your wares (only way to go) you need a small touch up gun,
filters for the inlet tube, or a good airbrush system, a small compressor, water filter, pressure regulator. The lacquer and dyes are usually sprayed at low pressure ie 20 to 30 psi. Airbush is almost mandatory for doing sunburst on anything.

A box style booth with a fireproof fan system fitted into the booth (can be rear or bottom mounted) to take away overspray in a gentle fashion is a good few hours spent, and a good quality mask for yourself.

You can use alcohol based dyes, or you can use printers inks to make up a wood dyes, inks soluble with alcohol or thinners require experimenting with to see if they are going to bleed or leech into areas where they are not wanted. Feast Watson make a range of alcohol soluble dyes. You can get quite a few water based dyes which are less prone to change in colour over a period of time. Some of the results from alcohol dyes over a period of time are incredible.

There are two videos available from Stewmacs in the states on finishing Guitars and Mandolins. Dan Erlywhine covers the subject very well and have put into practice what he has covered with good results. You can email me if you need more help of some nature.

Kind Regards
Mike :)