Spray finish...so many things to consider!

OK, first off I wish to thank everyone for there help in other threads discussing spray finishes. I have read them all and learnt so much from the info within. The search tool is a wonderful thing. Especially thanks to Richard Woodhead for his comments and PM.

Anyway, armed with my new found knowledge I decided to give it a go this weekend and apply a two pack lacquer to this wonderful table I had just built. The end result was a little mixed and I have learned...the theoretical concept and the actual physical act are very different.

The base looks great and is complete with two coats of lacquer. The top however has been hidden in the shed and will be sanded back tomorrow night after work. Bloody hell the first coat was brilliant and I thought to my self I am a luck bugger that the result looks so good on my first attempt. The second coat however brought me back to reality. Looks like a piece of poo. Splatter marks, a surface like orange peel and some sections feel like sand paper. Yuck.

So I went back and reread the previous posts and realised there is so much to consider. Anyway, my father in law is a painter, retired now, but came over last night and went through everything again with me. Richard as you say there is no better way to learn then being with some one and having them show you. Anyway I have convinced my father in law to come over next weekend and he will give me some guidence.

He also believes from looking at the result I did not have enough product coming out. Seems right to me also but I think there is more going on. I did not thin it as the thinners I got was not compatible and couldn't get any on the Sunday when I needed it.

So I thought I would share this experience with the group and if someone learns a little quicker then me I will be happy. The main point for me is never be afraid to try new things, it is the only way to learn. I am very happy with the base so I know it can be achieved. When I get there and the finish is brilliant all of this will be worth it. Hell I am enjoying myself at the moment anyway so it is alrady worth it and a little sanding never hurt anyone.

Cheers,

Buz.

The lack of thinners was the problem

No thinners, not enough air, not enough product..... any / all these will cause your problems. But for sure the no thinners!!!!!

Richard

Hi Bob and Richard,

Thanks fellas this is the next step in my move towards a great spary on 2 pac finish. I have ordered the thinners and it should arrive today or tmorrow at the latest. Will let you know how the results are when I try again.

This might sound silly but how do you decant the thinners from the 4 litre tin without making a bloody mess every where?

Cheers,

Buz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buzsaw

Hi Bob and Richard,

Thanks fellas this is the next step in my move towards a great spary on 2 pac finish. I have ordered the thinners and it should arrive today or tmorrow at the latest. Will let you know how the results are when I try again.

This might sound silly but how do you decant the thinners from the 4 litre tin without making a bloody mess every where?

Cheers,

Buz.

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This might sound daft, but I use an aero modellers electric fuel pump (impervious to most thinners, but check first!) and just pump it into whatever smaller container is required. BTW, a manual one would do just as well.

So care is needed, however, when switching from, say, Meths, to Turps, or whatever, so I flush the gizmo with a little pure alcohol and make sure it's dry before then next use.

Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Buzz

This might sound silly but how do you decant the thinners from the 4 litre tin without making a bloody mess every where?

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When you tip over the thinners can have the can outlet/screw top thread at the top(12 O'clock!)and the receiving container tilted with its top lip at the base of the cans thread... like pouring a beer sorta.
Its best to do it over the edge of a table, this way as the thinners can emptys the further it can be tilted without the receiving container hitting the table... 1st couple of times it may pay to lay down some news paper on the floor until you get used to doing it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ippingacan.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buzsaw

Hi Bob and Richard,

Thanks fellas this is the next step in my move towards a great spary on 2 pac finish. I have ordered the thinners and it should arrive today or tmorrow at the latest. Will let you know how the results are when I try again.

This might sound silly but how do you decant the thinners from the 4 litre tin without making a bloody mess every where?

Cheers,

Buz.

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Get a clean, wide mouthed glass jar. Take lid off thinner tin. Place jar under lip of lid across the widest part of the tin, i.e. over the handle. Lift tin slowly and pour. Do not upend tin, you have to let air in so that it poors evenly, not in "glugs". HTH and that you understand what I am saying.

Bugger, slow typer. Good onya Harry. Great minds think alike.

Harry/,

Thanks for the info, I understand what you are suggesting and will give that ago.

Steve, thanks also for sharing your method. If I was decanting lots of product I would invest in the little pump, clever.

I just finished sanding back the table top tonight. Didn't take too long at just over 45 minutes and only three pads to get back to bare wood. Can't wait to have another go at spraying it. Possibly Thursday and with all suggestions taken on bard.

Thanks again.

Buz.

Buz, a few more thoughts on working with thinners, lacquer...

If you're going to be using a fair amount of thinners, consider buying a 25 litre drum from 22 services. It's cheaper and you get a screw-in tap device for the base of the container. So when you want thinners you just open the tap and it's easy to get the amount you need. (Sit the drum on top of another empty drum to get if off the ground and hence make the tap usable).

I use a stainless steel metal rule "standing" in my pot to measure component parts (lacquer / hardener / thinners). For example, with the Becker Acroma DM 307, I pour in 10 parts lacquer, 1 part hardener then 4-5 parts thinners. Then clean off the rule by wiping with a thinners soaked paper towel.

I also keep a 5 litre tin labelled "dirty thinners", into which I pour thinners I've used to clean out my pot / gun. If you do a fair amount of spraying you could end up wasting a lot of thinners by throwing away the thinners you've used to "wash" out your pot and spray thinners through the gun as a clean out. I was told by the guru at 22 services that this "dirty thinners" (the low toxic stuff sold by 22 services) can then be used as thinners in a subsequent batch of lacquer mix. I've been doing this for a year and have had no problems. Certainly helps saves on thinners, as before I had been throwing the pot cleaning stuff away.

Also, I used to find lacquer mixing incredibly messy. Getting the DM 307 lacquer out of the 20 litre drum was not easy (And it needs stirring before extracting if it's a 30 or 40 gloss lacquer, as you have to re-mix the matting agent, which settles out as a white cloud in the bottom of the tin - full gloss has no matting agent so doesn't need mixing / stirring as much). Anyway, 22 services also sell empty 20 litre drums with a lacquer tap at the base. (Sure beats dipping in cups which get coated in sticky lacquer and are basically useless after one use.) So you can pour your lacquer into this drum and use it to cleanly extract lacquer. (I also went "one better", and collected 10 2 litre glass bottles (ex grapefruit juice containers) and after mixing up 20 litres of lacquer in the drum with tap, I fill up the 10 bottles and store in a box away from light. That makes it really easy to pour in precise amounts of lacquer. And I rinse the bottle with thinners when it's empty (and save the "dirty thinners.... etc)

Just a few operational thoughts. Working with lacquer, thinners, etc can be challenging.

Richard

G'day.

Another 'gotchya' that got me is the air hole in the top of the pot on my set up got some material in it & blocked up.
The result was the air/material ratio went out the window & I ended up applying a very thin, almost completely dry coat.

Richard, Thanks for that...some excellent ideas there which I will adopt. My shed is looking cleaner already :).

Cliff, Yep got caught with that too. Had to crack the lid a little to let the air in :(

Thanks all for your help.

Buz.

Best bet is to put a few sanding/sealer coats on first, sand back with the finest wet & dry, then go for your top coat/s.
And don't try if it's too cold or humid.

Normell

Hi all, Thanks again for your feed back and assistance, the advice was very welcome. I sanded the table back during the week and picked up the thinners on Friday afternoon. With some trepadation I applied a coat of sealer, resanded and then a coat of finish today. Bloody ripper. I am happy with the result and have now converted to spraying. I am still very much a novice here bit can only improve.

Thought I would attach a couple of photos but they don't do the surface justice really. Anyway, thanks again for the help.

Cheers,

Buz.

Good one Buzz, looks very nice! Well done. Once you conquer the "tricky" parts of lacquer spraying, you can achieve beautiful, very durable finishes, in a fraction of the time it takes using other techniques.

What sanding sealer did you use? How did you apply it? I've never used a sanding sealer so would appreciate your comments. Jarrah is fairly open grained, so even after 2 or 3 heavy coats of lacquer, you can still have a "textured" look & feel to the finish. Which I like. How many coats of lacquer did you apply over the sanding sealer? What was the lacquer? Looks like 40% gloss?

Richard