My first hearing aids.

I've had hearing problems since I was about 16.
Yesterday afternoon I finally found an audiologist who I can trust.
When I mean trust,after becoming an adult I was no longer eligible for free hearing tests.
I also moved out of home fairly early on and was more interested in seeing Punk bands and spending what little money I had on stupid car ideas and booze than my health.
I was grunge kid of the 90,s think Nirvana teen sprit.
If you didn't come home drunk and ears ringing it was a bad night.
I then moved my stupid car ideas up a beat
And become a panel beater after four years.
In hindsight I was doing the dumbest possible thing possible to my ears.
Hammers on metal 9/5 with grinders for 15 odd years.
Sticks on drums with heavy base guitars nearly every weekend.
Ear plugs were not a common thing back then and I was to full of myself to care about hearing protection.
Move on to now ,46 and still liking punk music mixed in with a dash of classical.
A smothering of other stuff lol sorry still no country music lol.

I now have tinnitus in both ears most days and its worst in the evenings .
Which is generally the way it goes for most suffers .
Your tired after working if you still working that is.
The days finished your winding down and it's mostly more quite.

So yesterday I was finally given a decent audiologist consultation.

Firstly I always assumed my hearing deafness was industrial noise.
Even tho the family history has had hearing loss
My father was quite deaf died early on ,two of my sisters have hearing aids both under 60.
I just assumed because I had been stupid in my youth I had caused the damage.
I was wrong completely WRONG tho my past life has possibly caused my tinnitus tho that actually can't be confirmed .
Buts it's highly likely.

My deafness is without a doubt pre wired into my DNA thanks mum and dad lol.
Anyway after having over an hour consultation with the audiologist who only works and derives is income from being an audiologist not a bloody hearing aid salesman.
Why do I say that because , I've seen enough that when they refuse to amid that wax build up is not a problem(yes it is)
They give you a five min audio test .
Then expect that you will choose your new hearing aids ,then and there and fork out about the $5000/10,000 on the spot like your buying a coffee.

So after my long winded post and please don't take this as being self pity or anything I actually think I've had a great life so far.
I mean I've gone from punk music to collecting vintage saws(I can't figure that out)
What's not to admire there.

So what was other people's experience going from being deaf to back to the world of living hearing.
Yes with regarding hearing aids ,I'm looking around the 5K mark
(Well that's this years 1/4 toy tool budget gone, I which lol.)
Possibly a Phonek Audeo B-50 ,so would be interested in hearing(pun) your experience if you don't mind sharing them with regard to getting choosing your hearing aids.

Cheers Matt

Hi Matt,
I too have hearing aids, I think my problems started 50 years ago, when I started work, PPE was not available then, or even heard of.
Using air operated jack hammers, then working in a steel fab business, grinders, hammering steel, all added up to tinnitus.
I got hearing aids about 6 years ago, being on a pension, helps afford them, free.
I found that in a room where there is a lot of conversation, that the person that is talking at a table I'm on, I have a job to hear what is being said.
Using machinery, saws, routers etc I switch them off, or stick them in a pocket.
My tinnitus sounds like thousands of crickets, particularly when it's quiet, the aids do help quieten them down a bit though.
Hope this helps.
Kryn

Never worked with loud machinery without hearing protection, but can admit to being a bit of a punk fan I have never spent an excessive amount of time at loud concerts. For some reason I have been usually fairly careful with loud noise. However, like Kryn I have (and always have had) issues with hearing when there is backround noise. I have no tinnutus. What surprises me, is that as a private pilot I have learned to separate the noise from what is important to me, but that is using headphones and a radio that has amplification that I can set at the volume I desire.

My father also has hearing problems and has hearing aids, but refuses to wear them most times.

Anyway, I reckon I am a candidate for hearing aids at some point in the future, maybe sooner than I expect. I would be interested in trialling a set now to see what sort of difference it makes.

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

I now have tinnitus in both ears most days and its worst in the evenings .
Which is generally the way it goes for most suffers .
Your tired after working if you still working that is.
The days finished your winding down and it's mostly more quite.

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I find the tinnitus "loudness" varies with how fatigued I am. The apparent "volume" also seems to increase if the background noise levels are high.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

I mean I've gone from punk music to collecting vintage saws(I can't figure that out)
What's not to admire there.

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just don't go painting or playing any of those saws.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simplicity

So what was other people's experience going from being deaf to back to the world of living hearing.
Yes with regarding hearing aids ,I'm looking around the 5K mark
(Well that's this years 1/4 toy tool budget gone, I which lol.)
Possibly a Phonek Audeo B-50 ,so would be interested in hearing(pun) your experience if you don't mind sharing them with regard to getting choosing your hearing aids.

---

Hi Matt, I have a Phonak Audéo V-312 (I think) in one ear only (my hearing loss is asymmetrical the result of a diving incident). Cost was around $4,000 and my aid is set to primarily deal with the tinnitus. My unit has 4 separate programs -- 3 three of which are customised to enhance speech in noisy back grounds. I've had the unit for around 4 years.
One of the first things I noticed when I started using the aid was I was hearing sounds in my ear that I didn't know even existed. Little things like key clicks on a computer keyboard. The other immediate benefit was that prior to getting the aid I used to avoid venues (pubs, cafes and restaurants) with lots of ambient noise as I found the level of concentration needed to have a conversation just too great. So it's been a big positive in that respect. (the down side is that I can no longer plead deafness for not hearing SWMBO.)

Negatives.
I've been doing a lot more walking lately and have noticed that when the wind is strong, the aid amplifies wind noise -- think wind blowing across a microphone -- I can almost certainly get one of the 4 programs adjusted to deal with this next time I'm back in AUS.

Caution
Is your audiologist an independent or part of a larger corporate? If the later the corporate almost certainly has a preference towards one particular brand of aid which may or may not be the best fit for you. An audiologist friend -- the person who fitted my aid -- has recently left a corporate and started his own business after becoming frustrated at not being able to fit the best device (best in terms of cost and performance) to a patient. Perhaps ask your audiologist for alternatives to the recommended aid.

I've been wearing hearing aids for close to 20 years. My loss stemmed from working in far too many computer rooms. The fan noise is a real hearing killer.

Several problems with hearing aids.

IMHO they are designed by people without hearing loss. Not a really big deal, but,,,,,,

The audiologist tends to believe the HA company's marketing hype.

Although the modern HA is similar to a 'Graphic Equalizer' of a stereo system, you ain't going to achieve pristine hearing. This brings up a few interesting points for conversation.

I think that I have Phonak HA under the Costco brand. They are the top of the line and cost about $1700US for the pair. I think that you have Costco in Oz. I would investigate at least on the web and then possibly a phone call.

My HA have something like 32 channels. My hearing loss starts at about 1800 Hz to the end of audible sounds. The real problem is that the loss is about -65 db and it is a cliff from 1800 to 2200. Most consonant sounds are in my hearing loss range. I still need to have these HA tuned a bit more but they are about a zillion times better than the other four brands that I have used.

The key is the number of channels. The more channels, the better the HA can be tuned to compensate for your loss.

There are 4 basic HA styles in common use today, ITC, ITC w/enclosed battery, ITE and BTE.
ITC - In the canal and is not good for high db loss. It is also a vanity HA. (Almost invisible)
ITE - In the ear and offers the choice of the largest capacity batteries.
BTE - Behind the ear and is absolutely annoying with ear muff ear protection or slightly annoying with glasses.

The ITC with the enclosed battery is a real boondoggle. The battery can't be changed. When the battery expires in 3 or so months you go in and they give you a new HA. Normally it is sold on a subscription basis. (About $3000US)

To answer the unasked question, "Yes, you really do sound like that when talking." In other words, you will have to get used to the sounds.

There is one other thing that you may want to look for, "companding". Basically it moves the higher frequencies down into the lower frequency channels. Here the telephone network has been doing that for over 50 years and makes long distance phone calls sound so much better.

So, Phonak, 32 channels and companding.

If you can get it, I recommend an ITE style, especially if you want to wear ear muffs in the shop.

You're right about most of the 'hearing' industry when you indicated that it's all about sales Matt! My daughter is an audiologist, she works for Australian Hearing (still government owned). All her clients are children or complex adults. If the stories she tells are correct your chances of getting some honest medical specialist treatment from a lot of the providers is virtually nil, it's all about targets and sales. Something that a lot of people don't take in to account is that there is a HUGE difference between an audiometrist and an audiologist, I'd compare it to the difference between having a Cert. II from Tafe and a university degree.

My daughter travels a considerable distance to work where she does. At times she has considered getting a job with a private provider closer to home, but she couldn't bring herself to do it. Where she is she is able to provide a quality of care without compromise - yes Australian Hearing do have sales targets, but because of her level of expertise with the more challenging clients she finds she can effectively ignore them. However, she does worry about the direction the sector has gone.

Glad you found a good one Matt, they're pretty hard to come by. :2tsup:

I have been on a Disability Pension for about 12 years. 10 Years ago I got a voucher in the mail to have a free hearing test. After the test the bloke rattled on about different levels and how my right ear was worse than the left and I have Tinnitus. When I came out of the appointment I reckoned that any body they saw would be given Hearing Aids. Well a year later another free test was offered, so I went and was told my ears were still about the same level and so I wouldn't need to renew the Aids. So every year I have been going back to the same crowd but the operators keep changing. One woman I saw told me that had I gone in to see her for the first time that day she would not have prescribed Aids for me because my hearing, although damaged, did not need Aids.....go figure. I reckon that because they are Government funded the Aids are given out freely regardless of the real need.
OK I did wear the bloody things daily for some years but was told not to get them wet (from sweat) so in hot weather if I was outside doing anything strenuous I would leave them inside. Wearing them in shopping Malls is down right AWFUL. They suck in ALL the noise so much so I can't think. (These may be el'cheapos too I think). I haven't worn them for more than a year but I do have a voucher on my desk to see them for an appointment. Yes they do bring in little noises that I haven't heard due to the damage that I have. If I watch TV on my own I just adjust the sound to suit my daughters level, (not mine) and if she and her mother are in the room I wear head phones connected to the TV because they insist on conversations that don't include me.
Last summer we got Evap Cooling put through the house, so with higher humidity the damn Aids corroded, so I will have to get a new set. I do think that my ears are losing their effectiveness. Its a bugger getting old....can't hear, can't see, hard to move around....whinge whinge whinge

Its does strike me as odd that the basics of functioning aren't covered by medicare.... ears, eyes, teeth, knees. Without these things getting and keeping a job is a challenge.

While I agree with the argument of "should have....blah blah blah", but the fact remains that accidents occur. Its impossible to determine if a thing like hearing loss is due to enthusiastic Nirvana (Simplicity, agreed!) or simply misfortune. It seems sensible to pay for these things to retain continuity of tax revenues and keep people off pensions (for those who wish to work).

My left knee is troublesome due to two separate accidents. It grinds, pops and lets go all the time. I have to bang on regardless of the trouble. When I'm 65 I get a new one/operation for free. That's 20 years away. Where is the logic in that? Keep me working now and pay taxes to 65, whereupon I hope to be dead (for there will be no pension).

Hearing is an interesting one. We took my MIL to the audio two months ago (turn down the TV nan!!!!!) and she had two free ones installed. It has changed everything (what?, what?, what?)

rrich is dead right. Why aren't these things almost an off-the-shelf commodity by some smart IT dotCom? Sold at Costco with an iphone ap or in-house setup? Seems like an industry ready for total destruction!! $5000 per hearing aid is absolutely obscene.

The tech in them is trivial. We can pretend its some sort of Sennheiser-level mega-tech, but Id wager it isnt. Id equally wager it costs about $30 to make them and it's 99.97% profit.

I did not think my hearing was too bad until I read this.
I had a test from Australian Hearing (Free gov org) and my hearing crashes at 2 khz and goes down 70b.
I have trouble hearing people in noisy rooms or when I can not see them. Audiologist said I was partially lip reading people.

Tinnitus is constant.
Thanks for the Cosco hint. I will check them out next visit.

My hearing loss is largely due to a 600mm square head panel planer beside a 100mm four header. All working inside an igloo for a workshop. It all sounded like a Boeing 747 running up it's engines. PPE was unheard of in those days. I use a pair of Siemens appliances, and have done for about 4 years now. It all became obvious when I mentioned to my wife that the crickets were particularly loud. She looked at me strangely as the windows on the car were up, then the penny dropped. The tinnitus is constant but does vary dependant on my degree of tiredness. I do not wear aids in the workshop or when mowing.
The upside is that I now hear things I am not supposed to hear :), but it is still difficult in social situations where there is numerous conversations going on at once. The down side is that squealing kids is bloody murder. My audiologist has his own private clinique and is also a wood worker, so I do trust him.

Jim

As I get older, I'm full of AIDS, hearing, looking, eating, walking.:D
Kryn

Here is a different perspective.

My tinnitus started up about 6 years ago (or so). It probably was faint in the background for a few years, then jumped up and could not be ignored. It was distressing, to say the least. I am not surprised that there are a high number of suicides as a result of tinnitus.

I went along to an audiologist (uni trained) who worked for a known and reputable organisation. After tests, my hearing loss was notable in the high frequencies (I think it topped out at about 5-6000Hz). Difficulty with background noise and some sounds in speech were my main issues. My consulting room is quiet, so no problem, but restaurants are another matter. After all was said and done, I signed up for in-ear hearing aids for both ears ($6000) and sound therapy treatment for the tinnitus (another $6000).

The sound therapy was a complete waste of money. After a year of listening to the same bloody music on the (rather) expensive music player, nothing had changed at all. The only positive I can say is that it saved my life (I guess that means something) because it gave me hope. But, in the end, it was a total waste of money. I also hated the hearing aids. They were in-ear and not easily seen (vanity .. vanity), but I hated the feel. Did they help with hearing? Yes. Did they help with tinnitus? Possibly ... a little.

I decided that I was a psychologist and should treat myself. Basically, what I planned to do was induce dissociation (detachment) from the emotions associated with tinnitus. Tinnitus is distressing partly because it is intrusive, and partly because we cannot rid ourselves of this (= loss of control). What I did was throw away the sound machine and stop using my hearing aids. I decided to face the "noise" head on, and damn the torpedoes.

About a week after I started this process, I was at Carbatec and talking with a couple of sales staff. They were wearing their new hearing aids and telling me how wonderful they were to block out their tinnitus. I did not have the heart to say that I have thrown mine away - I do not want anyone reading this to take from what I am saying that hearing aids do not work. They do. But I did not want to be captive to them.

So I endured the noise, which ranged from soft to LOUD. I recognised a pattern by now, that is, I could have a few days with it being soft, and then a few days of LOUD. After a couple of months I realised that my emotional reaction to noise had changed. The tinnitus was still there, but mostly I ignored its presence. There were days when it got louder - not as frequent as in the past - and it was hard to ignore, but again the emotional knee-jerk stress reaction was absent. It has been a couple of years now. The tinnitus is still there, but it is times like this that I am a made aware of it, or the roughly monthly few days when it gets loud-ish. It has become an appendage, but does not intrude much. Some days/weeks I forget about it completely.

I read somewhere that roughly 20% of all people acquire tinnitus over time, as hearing frequencies drop off due to age. It is comforting to know that one is not alone in living with this. Let it slide into the background by ignoring it. Don't let it dominate by concentrating your time and effort to diminish it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

Hearing is an interesting one.

rrich is dead right. Why aren't these things almost an off-the-shelf commodity by some smart IT dotCom? Sold at Costco with an iphone ap or in-house setup? Seems like an industry ready for total destruction!! $5000 per hearing aid is absolutely obscene.

The tech in them is trivial. We can pretend its some sort of Sennheiser-level mega-tech, but Id wager it isnt. Id equally wager it costs about $30 to make them and it's 99.97% profit.

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hearing aids are almost an off the shelf commodity.

my audiologist friend delights in replacing off the shelf units with "functioning" devices. The tale as he tells it is: patient balks at cost of a custom solution and goes for the discount option at "wonder hearing". Six or so months later patient is back complaining that the new hearing aids "don't work". At which point my friend has an easy sale of the original recommendation.
As I understand the technology, a hearing aid is basicaly a microphone, amplifier and speaker. The differences lie in how small the device is, where the microphone is located -- in the ear canal, behind your ear, around your neck, etc -- how the different parts of the unit are connected -- wire or wireless -- and how separate frequencies are amplified. Better hearing aids will apply different amounts of amplification to different frequencies, add in white noise to mask tinnitus, and frequency shift to enhance speech. The audiologist's skill is in matching a device to a patient's hearing loss and in programming the aid to perform for the patient. Plus checking for wax in the ears, and that the hearing aid dome is the right size and porosity.

Cost wise is a little murkier.
Sometimes the upfront cost includes annual servicing and hearing review (including re-programming) for the life of the unit. Other times the cost is "walk away" with additional fees applying for check-ups and re-programming. And depending on where the hearing clinic is located and who it is affiliated with, both levels of after sales service may have the same upfront cost.
The up-front hearing aid also cost includes the audiologist's business costs and salary -- and, as with most professions, these are not inconsequential.
The up-front cost will also include development R&D and sales incentives. But so do pharmaceuticals and new cars, so nothing much unusual there -- though the unit volumes are significantly lower, meaning that the R&D recovery and incentives are a higher proportion of the final cost.

But, Woodpixel is right. The industry is ripe for disruption.
With a sufficiently large data set, you could walk into a booth, sit down, take a hearing test, swipe your credit card and walk out with one or two programmed devices that you would need to fit to your ears.

Like Aldav, my daughter is an audiologist with over 25 years experience both here and overseas and she will not work in the private sector for the same reasons.
Earlier this year I was offered a hearing check up by my private health insurance which I took up. Her words to me were along the lines of "see how long it takes for them to try and sell you a hearing aid". My hearing was OK and they did not try a sell. I asked for a copy of my results and when I showed it to her, she said it was not a full test, only a screen.
One problem is that audiologists are not required to be registered unlike other health professionals. Some of their so called professional development questions are a joke - eg; Which capital city would you find pea floaters? after having held a conference in Adelaide

I'm fortunate in that I've worn hearing protection all my working life, and while I have a little hearing loss in the high frequencies, it's nothing that causes any problems.
However, if you are considering buying hearing protection, you might consider buying earmuffs used by shooters, rather than those sold by hardware stores. Earlier this year, I was taken to a shooting gallery in the USA. I was so impressed by the earmuffs I was issued there, that I bought a pair there & then. They are so much better than those sold by hardware stores. I assume the same quality is available here.

Derek, interesting to read your account of dealing with tinnitus. My wife adopted a similar approach, successfully.