Sparkie materials prices

Here is one outside our normal themes. I would appreciate some thoughts on the matter...
I have had some electrical work done recently and have no qualms about the $80 per hour labour charge. However I have taken exception to the prices I am being charged on materials.
I think I am being charged about 3 times what you can source the materials for without much effort. Here are some examples of the materials charges:

1. Standard double GPO $24 (which can be bought for less than $10)
2. 2.5mm T&E $5 per metre (you buy a 100m reel for $100)
3. 16A Residual Circuit Breaker $80 (you can buy them for $25)

So my bill for materials is $1,600 (this was for re-doing a kitchen, with no changes to lighting but effectively re-doing all the power). The labour bill is about $3k.
Because I figure he should have only charged me something like $600 for materials (based on the pricing sample above), I paid all his labour plus the $600 for materials and am in discussion about the additional $1k for materials.
He has sent me scans of the trade price lists to justify his prices.
But this guy has no interest in buying well for me because the higher the price he pays for his materials the better off he is.
I would be interested in anyone's thoughts.

Regards

Gordon

About 10 years ago I did a software installation for an electrical supplies wholesaler. They also did some over the counter sales to the public. To accommodate the two different markets, they had a "list price" which the public paid. Trade customers (sparkies) were given a percentage discount off list. The example which sticks in my mind is conduit. Trade price was 80% off list.

So don't take much notice of the list prices, he's likely paying much MUCH less.

Before getting too worked up over prices make sure you're comparing apples for apples. Don't think you'll get Clipsal quality for an Arlec price, also any material sold/charged by the metre is going to be dearer than the roll price. As far as the discounts are concerned, these help offset the costs of carrying around thousands of dollars worth of cable, switches, conduit and all the other bits and pieces a sparkie needs to do his job.

This issue raises it's head from time to time,if tradies are doing their costings correctly their pricing to you should be based on "absorbed costings" ie. the total cost of time spent getting,holding,transport,etc and all the overheads any business has (you pay this cost no matter where or what you buy) It is often the reason that small businesses go under as they don't cover all their costs often they last a while then go broke.
Ask your tradie if you can buy materials for your job,I have owner built a couple of houses and found that most guys will work with you often saying go get your prices then i'll see what I can do.

Did you get a quote for the required work? Did you agree to pay the quoted price?
Now that the work is finished you have decided it is too expensive and are not going to pay.
If you didn't bother to get a quote then you should pay whatever the sparkie wants. If he refused to give you a quote then you should have sent him on his way and employed someone who will.

Check against the prices here - Electrical Supplies, Online Electrical Wholesaler, Electrical Accessories, Electrical Wholesaler Brisbane, Electrical Wholesaler Sydney, Electrical Wholesaler Melbourne,

Slightly off topic, I know, but if we are not legally allowed to do electrical work, why can we buy the fittings, cable, etc from any hardware store or in this case online.

My understanding is that while a registered electrician is required for all new wiring installations, anyone can do a like for like replacement. If a light switch fails you can replace it with a similar switch, but cannot change it over for, say, a dimmer switch. Of course I could be 100% wrong about this. The rules are probably different from state to state just to complicate things further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chesand

Slightly off topic, I know, but if we are not legally allowed to do electrical work, why can we buy the fittings, cable, etc from any hardware store or in this case online.

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There is of course nothing to stop one buying the necessary materials and getting an electrician to do the installation.
I did exactly that when I built our house, he wasn't happy about it, so I gave him a list of the prices that I could buy the major items for and he agreed to match them.

He probably still bought much better than I could have but at least I had some control over what I was being charged, he probably still made some money, so we were both happy.

He also agreed to me working with him and doing the "donkey" work rather than bring an apprentice along.

Had the same arrangement with my roofer and plumber, worked out very well, I learned a fair bit and saved some money.

I know somebody who saved a lot of money by wiring up a granny flat himself. What he told me is that it was entirely legal for him to do all the wiring, just not legal to connect any of that wiring into the switchboard. What he did then was do the wiring, and then paid a sparky to make the switchboard connection. The sparky of course checked all the wiring out before making the connection in the switchboard, but that was a lot cheaper than getting the sparky to actually do the wiring. For this to be cheaper though you would need to know what you were doing - or you would be paying for the sparky to redo all the mistakes.

I did the same thing with my shed in Bris. Peter.
Passed with flying colours and saved a packet.

I find wiring of light and power circuits to be fairly simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grumpy John

My understanding is that while a registered electrician is required for all new wiring installations, anyone can do a like for like replacement. If a light switch fails you can replace it with a similar switch, but cannot change it over for, say, a dimmer switch. Of course I could be 100% wrong about this. The rules are probably different from state to state just to complicate things further.

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Without getting me banned again for telling it how it is
Might I suggest contacting the regulatory Authority in you state to Verify what you can on can't do

Think you will be surprised as to how little one can do unlicensed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NCArcher

Did you get a quote for the required work? Did you agree to pay the quoted price?
Now that the work is finished you have decided it is too expensive and are not going to pay.
If you didn't bother to get a quote then you should pay whatever the sparkie wants. If he refused to give you a quote then you should have sent him on his way and employed someone who will.

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I think we are starting to stray a little from the original question (which is our right of course :wink:) but I think NC has pretty much sumarised it above.

With the widsom of hindsight I expect Gordon would approach his next job differently.

Just on the subject of what we can and can't do there is some confusion caused by whether you are connected to the grid (for electricity) and a town system (for plumbing). Also the restrictions seem to be becoming tighter and tighter.

When we built our house over twenty years ago we had to get permission to live in the shed while we built. A neighbour down the road a few years earlier was told by the council in response to his question,

"We don't care if you live in a chook shed."

This was in a rural environment. Needless to say it is no longer the case.

Regards
Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grumpy John

My understanding is that while a registered electrician is required for all new wiring installations, anyone can do a like for like replacement. If a light switch fails you can replace it with a similar switch, but cannot change it over for, say, a dimmer switch. Of course I could be 100% wrong about this. The rules are probably different from state to state just to complicate things further.

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The list of activities you are legally allowed to undertake in relation to mains wiring as a non-electrician, across all states and territories of Australia, follows:

#List starts#

Replace a blown light bulb
Put a new length of fuse wire in an old style pull out ceramic fuse block

#List ends#

To do any more than that (ie replace like for like) you need at the minimum a connect/disconnect license; typically these are only available to a select few related trades (plumbing, gasfitting, refrigeration mechanic) where you may need to replace a hot water system or similar hardwired device.

That said, here's a link to the NZ government's "How to do your own house wiring to AS/NZS standard" DIY guide -http://goo.gl/9d33T (PDF file).

NZ - despite sharing exactly the same set of rules and standards on electrical wiring as us - has allowed DIY electrical work since the late 90's, leaving Australia pretty much all by itself in the list of first world 'thou shalt not do thou own wiring' countries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master Splinter

The list of activities you are legally allowed to undertake in relation to mains wiring as a non-electrician, across all states and territories of Australia, follows:

#List starts#

Replace a blown light bulb
Put a new length of fuse wire in an old style pull out ceramic fuse block

#List ends#

To do any more than that (ie replace like for like) you need at the minimum a connect/disconnect license; typically these are only available to a select few related trades (plumbing, gasfitting, refrigeration mechanic) where you may need to replace a hot water system or similar hardwired device.

That said, here's a link to the NZ government's "How to do your own house wiring to AS/NZS standard" DIY guide -http://goo.gl/9d33T (PDF file).

NZ - despite sharing exactly the same set of rules and standards on electrical wiring as us - has allowed DIY electrical work since the late 90's, leaving Australia pretty much all by itself in the list of first world 'thou shalt not do thou own wiring' countries.

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And many would have us in the 3rd world every one do your own thing situation.