Finishing to a high gloss ?'s

I just have a few questions for I am learning a lot as I mess up and read others builds.

I have hand stained some hoop pine with a Jarrah dark tint and brushed on the finish. I just have 2 coats of finish and wanted to know how do I get finish around a 1500 or so grit smooth and not have white sanding marks?

I have seen others use soapy water and sand with a light spray and get amazing results but do I have enough coats to start sanding to this git yet?

I have also let the finish cure now for almost 3 days. I figure when I finally start sanding to the nice smooth finish I will wait atleast 4-5 days then sand. Just me .

Here is the products I have used this time:

Feast Watson Prooftint pine sealer
Feast Watson Prooftint Jarrah
Feast Watson glossproof

I would take some pictures but the camera needs to be charged.

Thanks for any guidance.

Not that I have used that product, I do use FW floor seal and buffing oil and shellac and 0000 steel wool rubbed wax, but I have some comments that may help.
You will not restore the same level of gloss after rubbing as straight from the can.
You should let the finish cure as long as possible, Flexner says at least a month for a varnish.
try turps as a lubricant and you might want to start at a lower grit 1000 say maybe even 600 if there are lots of imperfections. You can sand in perpendicular directions through the grits to help see that you've removed all the previous grit scratches. You could finish with 0000 steel wool.

Cheers
Michael

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Originally Posted by chrapladm

I just have a few questions for I am learning a lot as I mess up and read others builds.

I have hand stained some hoop pine with a Jarrah dark tint and brushed on the finish. I just have 2 coats of finish and wanted to know how do I get finish around a 1500 or so grit smooth and not have white sanding marks?

I have seen others use soapy water and sand with a light spray and get amazing results but do I have enough coats to start sanding to this git yet?

I have also let the finish cure now for almost 3 days. I figure when I finally start sanding to the nice smooth finish I will wait atleast 4-5 days then sand. Just me .

Here is the products I have used this time:

Feast Watson Prooftint pine sealer
Feast Watson Prooftint Jarrah
Feast Watson glossproof

I would take some pictures but the camera needs to be charged.

Thanks for any guidance.

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Wait several weeks then buff it using a polishing compound... its tricky to machine buff without burning it.
IMHO poly is not really the gear for a piano quality shine, you can get nicer results by spraying it on thick if the surface is level(table tops). The only time you sand is in between coats, unless you are dulling it back to a flatter sheen.

SO are you saying to go ahead and sand with 600 grit perpendicular to the gran to start?

I was confused by your first comment. After using the pine sealer to start I used a cloth to rub on the stain. I used 2 coats and thats was great for me. Then applied the first coat with a nice brush and noticed some raised pieces of grain or whatever exposed. I didn't put it on very thick at all. My first piece of finish I worked with I put it on very thick and it never really cured correctly.

This is only my second build and I believe I have done alot better with this one but still learning.

When I applied the second coat I sanded the finish alittle with a 600 grit to even it all out. Now the second coat is a lot more uniform but I think I will apply one more coat and then let it cure for about a week or so. These are loudspeakers I am building so I might just apply the last coat and after a day of drying bring them inside. Then when a few weeks or so go by I will try and shine these things up.

BUT like I was saying when I did the 600 grit between coats it left some white scratches so to speak and then went away when applying the next coat. There aren't any scratches in the inside of the finish so it looks great but just not quite to the finish I want..

I would love to take this finish as high as I could but maybe I am limited by the way I have done my finish so far??? Not sure.

I have never worked with steel wool so that will be another learning experience

And when using solvent or turp with sanding do I need to make sure there is a pretty thick layer of finish first?

3 coats but I dont want to ruin anything so thats why the question on the turps and sanding.

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chrapladm

SO are you saying to go ahead and sand with 600 grit perpendicular to the gran to start?
Yes. And no. You are not sanding the timber any longer, you are sanding the finish. If you are sanding the timber then you don't have enough build to start with and you are not up to the process of rubbing the finish. If you don't think you have enough build, I wouldn't sand across the grain.
I was confused by your first comment.
My comment? which comment? OH if you mean about the lower finish gloss, if you leave the last coat unsanded you will have a higher gloss finish than if you rub it with steel wool etc.
After using the pine sealer to start I used a cloth to rub on the stain. I used 2 coats and thats was great for me. Then applied the first coat with a nice brush and noticed some raised pieces of grain or whatever exposed. I didn't put it on very thick at all. My first piece of finish I worked with I put it on very thick and it never really cured correctly.

This is only my second build and I believe I have done alot better with this one but still learning.

When I applied the second coat I sanded the finish alittle with a 600 grit to even it all out. Now the second coat is a lot more uniform but I think I will apply one more coat and then let it cure for about a week or so. These are loudspeakers I am building so I might just apply the last coat and after a day of drying bring them inside. Then when a few weeks or so go by I will try and shine these things up.

BUT like I was saying when I did the 600 grit between coats it left some white scratches so to speak and then went away when applying the next coat. There aren't any scratches in the inside of the finish so it looks great but just not quite to the finish I want..
yes that's normal
I would love to take this finish as high as I could but maybe I am limited by the way I have done my finish so far??? Not sure.

I have never worked with steel wool so that will be another learning experience

And when using solvent or turp with sanding do I need to make sure there is a pretty thick layer of finish first?

3 coats but I dont want to ruin anything so thats why the question on the turps and sanding.
If your build is not enough then lubrication with soapy water is even worse than turps, the water will soak into the bare timber.

you sound a bit confused, have you got a good finishing book?

Thanks.

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Cheers
Michael

I am using this forum as a finishing book. I cant really afford anything more right now so I am just trying to learn and see what I can do.

If I am not to sand after applying the last coat then what do we use for the last "polish?"

I have seen others on you tube go with a pneumatic air sander and they used 1500 grit and then used 2500 and so on.I think they were using abalon discs or whatever they are called.

I only have a cheap Ozito electric sander so I used it for initial sanding up to 400 grit but that all I could find at the local Bunnings. The light sandings between the coats were just by hand with a cork block..

I will add another coat tonight and let it cure for the next weeks. I am sure there is enough finish on there but I would rather just add one more to be safe.

I suggest you buy [ame="http://www.amazon.com/UNDERSTANDING-WOOD-FINISHING-BOB-FLEXNER/dp/B000H6EJ4U"]this[/ame] book, it is excellent.
Cheers
Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chrapladm

I am using this forum as a finishing book. I cant really afford anything more right now so I am just trying to learn and see what I can do.

If I am not to sand after applying the last coat then what do we use for the last "polish?"

I have seen others on you tube go with a pneumatic air sander and they used 1500 grit and then used 2500 and so on.I think they were using abalon discs or whatever they are called.

I only have a cheap Ozito electric sander so I used it for initial sanding up to 400 grit but that all I could find at the local Bunnings. The light sandings between the coats were just by hand with a cork block..

I will add another coat tonight and let it cure for the next weeks. I am sure there is enough finish on there but I would rather just add one more to be safe.

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Thanks for the book reference, Michael. I found it at Dymocks for $50 hard cover edition

I have achieved a reasonably high gloss with poly u. ( Wipe on poly). Firstly all the grain and other variations in the timber need to be filled with the varnish. Ideally the final coat you apply will be flat and mark free apart from dust nibs.

If you can get to that level, a careful "de-nibbing" can be done and the polishing process commenced after the finish has hardened for a few weeks. If you use a mechanical polisher it should be on low RPM as Poly U will heat up, move around and look awful.

In getting to that stage you will realise that the shiner the surface, the more imperfections are noticeable. It is therefore advisable to apply the Poly U until you are happy with the basic structure of the finish, and rely less on final sanding to flatten out imperfections.

Wiping on thinned final coats after sanding flat could be a good way to get to this final stage. With the surface dead level, the thinned coats should flow into the tiny undulations that you would otherwise see once a higher gloss level is achieved. It should dry quicker too with less dust settling. Some people have even put protective hoods over their work to prevent dust attaching to the surface.

Good Luck and report back with your results!

Thanks everyone. I will try and sand flat again because I know there is still some work to do on that after examining it again today. I didn't know you could wipe on the finish. WOW learning something new every day.

I will try and sand flat and apply 2 more coats with the wipe on technique. That will hopefully get me to a more flat(level) finish and then after weeks I can finish to a more high gloss like I am wanting.

What is the cheapest way to buff the finish to a high gloss?

I have my hands and I have a cheap Ozito orbital sander which I wouldn't really want to use on the finish. PLUS I have only 400 grit for that sander. That is as high as I could find at Bunnings. I have been manually using 600 grit in between coats so do I need to manually buff the finish with a 1500 or else?

I am just trying to figure out the last finishing phase.

Once you sand the final finish it will be extremely difficult to get the same level of gloss back. If you are happy with a shiny surface rather than a deeper gloss, sand with wet and dry paper up to 3000. Then as Harry mentioned earlier you can use a rubbing compound - EEE works well and finish off with a wax polish.

What are you making, by the way?

I am building a L/C/R channel loudspeakers. I have the sides and top with the gloss. I am trying to achieve as high of a fine mirror like gloss as I can for future benefit.

I normally in the future would be happy with a 1200 maybe final sanding. BUT I am mainly doing this so when I build a free edge table or such I will have had some experience at this mirror finish. I have alot of builds I want to do in the future but only thing I am doing now is building my speakers out of A/A hoop pine plywood.

PLUS the only thing I feel confident doing is building simple boxes for now.

I normally would go to my dad's house and learn from him but living in OZ I have to rely on forums, friends and my own mistakes.

"What is the cheapest way to buff the finish to a high gloss?"
Car cutting compound, dont touch it with paper unless its 2000g+ and use lubricant(soap water)

If you really want the highest gloss use either 2pack car clear or proper lacquer both sprayed on. These type paints can be buffed to a glass shine(ie piano finish).
2 pack poly like wattyl 7008 can be cut as well single pack poly is just to soft

Well if thats the case I will have to try on another build to get the mirror like finish.

I will try and see how fine of a finish I can get but I will try next time to use a 2 pack wattyl can or such. I have to build a sub woofer still and it will be quite large so I thought of trying to make it black with a piano finish but that build wont start for another week.

I might have to find a friend though to apply the 2 pack if it need to be sprayed. I dont have the money yet for that equipment nor the room. I am stuffed inside a shed right now and I am amazed I can find anything in my mess with all the other stuff smashed in for storage.

If your going for the shiny black box look mdf will be better than hoop pine... probably cheaper too :)