Stain and varnish in one!!!

Hi guys
I've just completed a bed and cabinet (Bob the Builder theme) for my grandson (3yrs). Having sanded to 400 grit on the pine I used Wattyl Sanding sealer (brushed on) I then had to go back to 180 grit and work back to 400.

As a finish I decided to use Wattyl Stain and Vanish (all in one). Usually I use traditional stain and then varnish. I'm not really happy with the finish using this technique.

Firstly I tried application by cloth and wiping - bad move!! In the tropical heat of FNQ it tacks too quickly. I had to sand back slightly again! Second application was using foam brush. Great - no brush strokes. However, the stain/varnish just does not seem to penetrate like the classic stain. The finish doesn't have the same depth - it looks like 'a clear paint'. I used New Golden Oak - lovely colour but not quite the finish I wanted.

I won't be using this technique again. A mate at work used a similar Sikkens product and was equally disapointed.

Anyone out there with any comment or experience with the all in one stain/varnish.

What ya reckon guys?


Wallace

Yes, agreed,

I used it once on a top for my aquarium. It was passable but only just. I agree that the depth of finish is lacking. :(

I probably won't use it again

I just used to make my own. Nth Qld at the time and never had a problem. When used in the right application is don't look half bad and safes a lot of time and will achieve a much more even colour coverage....Secret is spray application and very light coats.

I used this type of product once on a bookshelf, and was pretty unhappy with the blotchy results. I really agree with Shane in that spraying is probably a must. Also, if you thin it down a fair bit you might find it easier to work with, and you could probably build up the colour in several coats rather than one or two.


Cheers,


Justin.

If you want a stain to penetrate then why the hell would you use a sanding Sealer and deny it the chance? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I've used 50ml Walnut stain (Feast and Watson) mixed into 500ml of their polyurethane. 2 coats of this produces a result I quite like: it seems easier to get a consistent colour compared to applying the stain directly. I use it over radiata pine.
For some pictures, see my kitchen cabinet, clothes horse and bed here...
http://westnet.com.au/tonyhalse/publ...cts/index.html

Sanding sealer is to seal the timber once you are happy with the colour either by staining it or leaving it natural. If you want to use the all in one stain and clear you just apply it to the bear timber sanding in between coats with 400 grit and if you are happy with the colour after two coats you apply the third coat with just clear of the same brand and product eg. water based or oil based.....If you seal the timber first all your doing is painting the sealer with your all in one varnish stain...

I used a Cabots Varnish Stain in a baltic pine colour over radiata. Brushed on 2 coats, sanding in between, then did a third coat using their Crystal Clear water based varnish to finish as I'd already got the colour I was after.

Pretty happy with the result, just need to be careful to apply evenly.

I used that method on 2 bedside tables and a tallboy dresser when we got married 10 years ago, the bride recently hit them with the sander and did a whitewash effect "shabby chic" effect over them :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: My handiwork all gone.

Cheers..........Sean

Wallace, I have used the Wattyl Stain an Varnish in "New Baltic Pine" I think. Loved the stain colour but the finish is really dodgey, very poor, not good, less than...need some words that wont bring the axe down on me (I think he's had a bad day;) ).

The finish on hardwood was fair (in all fairness) but on pine if was terrible:( . Even thinning slightly and waiting 48 hours between coats it still reactivated (because of the poly) the previous coat and thus dragged the stain with it. I tried two separate projects with it and read and re-read the instructions but it wasn't worth the money. One thing I can say is that the stain seems to settle out fairly easily so it needs to be well mixed prior to application.

Just my experience, Cheers

Thanks Guys
All your hints and suggestions are very much appreciated - will be getting a dedicated spray gun for varnish and finishes only - no etch primers and other crap to be pushed through this one.

I think I shall try Shane's suggestion of light coats and use my previous staining system.

This is one great little forum


All the best


Wallace

Made the same mistake myself once on some shonky advice irecieved at a WWW show.
Had to strip the sanding sealer, and as for the all in one Stain and sealer I wont be using that again either.
David

Wallace - Remember that Shane is a professional finisher. If you are using this stuff then it is pretty obvious that you aren't, so don't expect to get professional finish first up with the spray gun. It will take a lot of practice to get it right.

What you were using is basically PAINT the only difference is the amount of stain that is in the mix. This stuff is made for mugs.

Be very wary of advice from a paint or varnish seller (especially at a WWW Show) they are paint sellers not finishers. The closest most of them have ever come to finishing is slapping a couple of coats of ceiling white onto a kitchen wall.

I used the same stuff as Scooter recently (Cabots Varnish Stain in a baltic pine colour) cost an arm and a leg as I used 3 coats but it looks great with no patches.

Having said that, I am never comoftable using any kind of stain here in the Brisbane summer as it dries so fast and the sweat dripping off my forehead doesn't enhanse the finish much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

Be very wary of advice from a paint or varnish seller (especially at a WWW Show) they are paint sellers not finishers. The closest most of them have ever come to finishing is slapping a couple of coats of ceiling white onto a kitchen wall.

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U, I am so glad that you are a "FINISHER" and not a "PAINTER", ceiling white is meant to go on the ceiling not the walls!

Brudda - I was trying to make a point about the finishing knowlege (or lack of it) of paint sales people. Not what a dope I am.

Anyone with half a brain knows you don't put ceiling white on kitchen walls.



You get the painters in to do it for you. Doh http://www.ubeaut.com.au/homer1.gif