More Sorry Suggestions

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The problem might be that there are obviously many people with this view whether you understand it or not and they will look at the apology in a negative way if it's put forward on behalf of all Australians.

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I agree that many may people think that this apology is negative for Australia HH...and i will argue to the death for this right

Im trying not arguing one way or the other( althought I do have an opinion)I understand that many Australians are opposed to the current government saying sorry....i suppose what im after is a logical reason why ? I may have missed it but so far I have'nt come across an argument that demonstrates conclusively that this apology is going to effect the average Australian in a negative way..,..dont get me wrong I still respect people who have a different opinion... I am just yet to be convinced

A little back ground of where i am coming from... I dont believe or respect anything that appears in the printed/televised media (based on personnel experience)and that may be to my detriment. Though I do regard one on one interviews with the main principal (Kevin Ruddin this case ) as being a reasonable indication of intentions. And from what I can gather after the interview with Laurie Oaks on the Sunday program... Is that KR is trying to resolve the difference between the average Aussie and indegineous Aussie's life span. Which personally I cant see the harm in whether or not an apology is involved.

cheers
BD:)

SilentC,

Oh wait. A politician telling us after the event why they didn't do something, in lightly veiled dig at the new government, who is doing it.

Excuse my cynicism. :)

woodbe

Silentc, the problem with the "reason" given by Tony Abbott, is that the element of society that is angry at aboriginals (for want of a better (read more accurate), word) sided strongly with the govt. So as a result the pragmatists AND the "anti aboriginals", get lumped into the same boat.

The end result of that was the govt was acused quite widely of pandering towards racism by their policy - its a rock and a hard place.

On the positive side, men such as Noel Pearson and Warren Mundine werent voicing these opinions a decade ago, so maybe we are getting somewhere, and it will build, and hence maybe real actual action will be taken in the future......

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Originally Posted by Brown Dog

... Is that KR is trying to resolve the difference between the average Aussie and indegineous Aussie's life span. Which personally I cant see the harm in whether or not an apology is involved

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That's a great intention and apparently was actually achieved by the last government. I'd like to see Kevins plan to continue and improve upon this trend.

HH.

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Originally Posted by woodbe

SilentC,

Oh wait. A politician telling us after the event why they didn't do something, in lightly veiled dig at the new government, who is doing it.

Excuse my cynicism. :)

woodbe

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He actually suggests in the article that they did do something which was to increase the average life expectancy.

Apart from a grandstand apology what has Kevin actually done or does he plan to do? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

HH.

Brown dog: a thing doesn't have to directly affect you in a negative (or positive) way for you to have a strong opinion concerning it.

Woodbe: You can say the same for anything that a politician says or does, so we might as well remove them from the equation if we take that line. I'm not supporting his opinion, I just posted it in response to the question asked. Your guess is as good as mine as to the real reasons.

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That's a great intention and apparently was actually achieved by the last government

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was it ? why is there still an issue then ?

Im not a massive Kevin devote..really I couldnt care less who is in power (their all the same to me).....but.... all we have to go on so far is intentions. And as far as i can remember KR promised he would address this issue as an election promise...just like JH promised there would never be a GST :rolleyes:

SilentC,

Understood.

Thanks for posting it, my politicalBS filter needed a bit of calibration :)

woodbe.

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Brown dog: a thing doesn't have to directly affect you in a negative (or positive) way for you to have a strong opinion concerning it.

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I totally agree SC
Im not arguing anyones right to an opinion ...Im just saying...so far I havent heard an argument that to me.... supports the negative(to my satisfaction)... for me to change my opinion (which is always open to change:rolleyes:)

But I would would really like too... as i said Im undecided on whether or not this apology is a good thing...though I am leaning to one side ...that doesnt mean to say I cant be convinced one way or the other... As i said i dont hold much stead in what the media says....but I am more than willing for some one to convince me that this apology is a negative thing or confirm that my opinion so far is valid

OK, well apart from the knee-jerk reaction, which is to ask "why should I apologise to these people for anything, I didn't do it to them", the main argument against an apology that I guess I favour above any of the others is the promotion of the victim mentality. I reckon it just gives them another reason to say "poor fella me" instead of grabbing themselves by the seat of the pants and doing something about their situation, which is pretty much what would be expected of me if I was wallowing in similar circumstances. That's pretty much it for me. I'm not going to shout for the overthrow of the government, or fire bomb parliament, or start kicking every indigenous person I see as a result of an apology being given. It will just cause me to sigh and roll my eyes. And then we'll have to find something else to talk about :)

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Originally Posted by Brown Dog

was it ? why is there still an issue then ?

Im not a massive Kevin devote..really I couldnt care less who is in power (their all the same to me).....but.... all we have to go on so far is intentions. And as far as i can remember KR promised he would address this issue as an election promise...just like JH promised there would never be a GST :rolleyes:

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This from Reconcile;

8. Why is the word ‘sorry’ important as part of the apology?

The word ‘sorry’ holds special meaning in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture. In many Aboriginal communities, sorry is an adapted English word used to describe the rituals surrounding death (Sorry Business). Sorry, in these contexts, is also often used to express empathy or sympathy rather than responsibility.

During the 2007 election campaign, then Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd also recognised the significance of the word sorry:

“… simply saying that you’re sorry is such a powerful symbol. Powerful not because it represents some expiation of guilt. Powerful not because it represents any form of legal requirement. But powerful simply because it restores respect”

No wonder people like me get confused and dont "get it". Why not use the actual aboriginal word for empathy or sympathy instead of a bastardised englishword.

So here goes, truly from my heart.

"Dazzler wishes to express his Madja for the gaayinmara who were inappropriately taken from thier ngambaa and wish thier gii is thanga."

I can see that my red-neck reference was offensive, but I refuse to apologise, because that was in the past and I've disassociated myself from it on the grounds that I was in a different mood then. My vague and distorted memory of it is that, like Astrid, I was angered by some offensive threads. By red-neck I suppose I simple mean right-wing viewpoints such as those in the offensive threads, but I didn't have anyone in mind in particular.

What we have had in this thread is a whole series of members deciding what the indigenous people should want, how they should behave. This is at the crux of the problem: we've been pushing them around for 200 years. If we really do accept that they are our equals then we have to ask them what we need to do to fully accept them as ... us. They have told us that they have been hurt by some of our actions in the past, and that the first real step, albeit symbolic, is an apology for these actions. It really isn't that big a deal you know, and some of you who have contributed to this thread need to ask yourselves why it inspires such strong emotions in you. What is it saying about you? Is it because you're re ... , ooops, umm, people with a conservative outlook?:)

Ross,

Very ironic first paragraph. Well done.

woodbe.

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Originally Posted by Rossluck

IIt really isn't that big a deal you know, and some of you who have contributed to this thread need to ask yourselves why it inspires such strong emotions in you. What is it saying about you? Is it because you're re ... , ooops, umm, people with a conservative outlook?:)

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No, it says we really don't think it's a big deal, and we're mystified as to why it's being made to be one.

P
:cool:

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Originally Posted by dazzler

"Dazzler wishes to express his Madja for the gaayinmara who were inappropriately taken from thier ngambaa and wish thier gii is thanga."

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Did I see pics of you working in PNG building houses or something a while back?