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Ah yes, or perhaps I should say ah so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopha
You have got the point... the twin golden arches (no capitals please) are certainly not the symbol of civilisation.
However I do believe that Gold, and in fact an Arch could be a symbol of very good ruck to a Chinese person, so I would think that inadvertantly the rise of that particular brand was due to a small help from our friends to the north.
Cheers,
P
:D
As others have stated, there's a difference between empire and civilization. How do we define "greatness" in respect to civilizations? If we take it as the greatest contribution to "culture", that is the fields of art, medicine, philosophy, architecture, literature etc etc then it would have to be the Greeks. Yes the Chinese had many advancements in these fields also but due to their closed door policies of many centuries little of their knowledge or culture made it out to influence the rest of the world for a long time. The Greeks have influences that can be readily traced in the fields of architecture, art, medicine, literature and philosophy (and probably some more I can't think of just now :o ). They were a direct influence on the Romans, who basically took most of this knowledge as their own and then disseminated it throughout their empire. Most of the modern science and art disciplines can trace their foundations back to either the Romans or the Greeks. So I'm voting Greek (besides, I really like Ouzo :D )
Mick
Greeks are an evil race, when I was in Vietnam (68-69) I got s*** faced on Ouzo, anything aniseed now and I still feel ill.
I still blame it on the Greeks, but their food is OK :D :D :D
Just like Dutch didn't allow the settlers in South Africa to bastardise the Dutch language into Afrikaans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt
:D
In fact, a large number of the early settlers in America were Dutch - New York was originally named New Amsterdam - but the Dutch-Americans knew which side their bread was buttered, and quickly learned English and became assimilated into the American melting pot.
Rocker
The Dutch lost control of South Africa when it was stolen from them by the British during the Napoleonic wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt
Actually Afrikaans was and still is the dutch spoken during the 17th and 18th century, because of it being cut of it remained unchanged whilst Dutch went through further development. So it was not bastardised more like being in a time warp. :D
Peter.
Rocker, it was a trading outpost. The Dutch never went into full scale settlement but built trading outposts to facilitate trade. The exception was South Africa because of the need for fresh provision on the route to Indonesia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocker
The population of New York at the time of the Napoleonic wars was 80 % English, 10 % german and french and the rest Dutch being mainly the garrison and administrators. When the English fleet arrived to conquer it the dutch relinquished it as it was undefendable.
The English, being such gentleman :D , offered everybody citizenship and those that didn't want it were repatriated back to Europe. Most took up this offer for life under the British in America was better than in Europe under Napoleon.
Peter. ( who still remembers his history lessons. :D )
Rome and China are the only contenders since the others don't have Emperors or Empresses. So, my money goes to China.
If the intent was for civilisations, I'd go for the Mayan.
The Greatest Civalisation? We're living in it !!!! With all it's faults, I wouldn't want to live in any other place or time. :cool:
If somebody has already said this I apologise . I could'nt face trawling through eight pages of c**p,. Oops sorry- erudite and learned statements on the subject. :eek:
The Nox.
J!
Wot!
The British are not a civilisation, nor are the Americans. Western civilisation encompasses these nations. To answer the question at hand, perhaps a definition of greatness is needed.
In the 1970's the Americans finally had sonar/radar powerful enough to detect the coastline of Antarctica under ice sheets that are in many places kilometres deep. Hence an accurate map was able to be created showing the land (coastline) underneath the ice.
There is a map (Piri Reis, in Keene College, New Hampshire) drawn pre Mercator (Dated circa 1500AD). This map is a copy of a map that is pre Ptolemy. It shows Antarctica before the last ice age, ie all the coastlines depicted accurately - allowing for the curviture of the earth - the technique undiscovered again until Mercator. The last time Antarctica is supposed to be free of ice - best guess 13000 years ago, ie Prehistorically precivilisation. To make a map accurately detailing the coastline of a continent you need geometry which is a sign of civilisation. What do the historians say about this? Nadda. Nothing but denial.
My vote is to the civilisation who made this map.
History is not a science, it is a ladder to fame and fortune. Those who climb it are orthodox tossers keen on making a name for themselves on the back of those the establishment see as the sons of god. Being the sons of god, their works are not to be questioned - so falacies, incorrect interpretations and even fraud (Egyptology for example) are treated as dogma. Go against it and you are a heretic.
The foundations of this dogma are the bible. Historians of the Renaissance were still very much afraid of chalking things up to humanity/evolution/nature/science/chaos/whatever that went against the church, and so much of what was the past became acts of god.
Cultural influences, war etc etc all make for decadent, subjective and unfalsafiable past. Take this with a dose of orthodox closed mindedness, internal politcs and inertia, and you have "History" as it is today. Tripe.
And then there are so many civilisations that lie undisturbed. Orthodox history wont touch them because some bright spark decided that civilisation started at some nonsensical date (about 8000 years ago) that doesnt allow for these. Look at the coastline of India for example. There are many structures 20 metres under the water there. Geologically speaking the last time these structures were above water was before the last glacial maximum (ie before the great floods of the last ice age...) Again 10000 years ago. (There are more submerged structures all around the world - Japan, the Mediteranean, South America.) Marine archaeologists have suggested that these structures are harbours, temples and other man made buildings - another sign of civilisation.
Then there are structures dated by orthodox scholars who are basing their dates on the work of older scholars who have made their name from their work. When someone better equiped comes along and makes a more accurate date - ie West and the Sphinx in Egypt - the establishment (made up primarily of others who have made their names from those who have gone by) goes into damage mode and debunks the non-orthodox scholars work. To the detriment of history.
The Nox are a very advanced people from the first season of Stargate. May as well say them than select a grubbers interpretation of historical guesswork based on a book of shi.t
As David Hume once said "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance, let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames, for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."
Or as Hitler said. "Burn the f*cking lot of it."
J!
Actually I thought the Nox where really cool
Anyway Dear Reader, fear not, for thou at enlightenment!. The idea that "civilisation" evolved out of Europe just because Mick somebody or rother ate a few mushrooms and painted the ceiling is enough to make ya chunder...fair dinkum, and those bloody romans have got a lot to answer for, just cause they built stuff outa stone.....but I digress ehhhhmm now where was I, Aaah yes "enlightenment".
As pointed out by my learned colleagues well before the last iceage a great civilisation abounded in the great southern land called Gondbananasland. Gondbanansland became a great civilisation because oneday a Brickie (yes dear reader, he could be your ancient ancestor) said "I'm sick of this messing around with masonary crap" and his mate Darth said "yeah, stones are really really hard to plane" so the great gods overlooked their meagre creations (a stone thing they called the MCG and a few other stone humpys) and decided something must be done.
In their infinite wisdom the gods created trees and as time came to pass everyman became a skilled woodworker. I jest you knot dear reader. Such was the greatest civilisation ever to encompass this world. Everyworkshop had a Sturdee finishing room, everybench a Rocker mortising jig, everybody had a well stocked finishing cupboard filled with Shellawax and stuff called EEE and everybody had sliding panel tablesaw. The shingled roofs of the houses glistened with solar panels and power was abundant. Skills were shared and discussed openly and Nobody, absolutlety nobody, ever complained about workshop noise from neighbours.
This was paradise where nobody did any real work other than woodwork, (or work in the pursuit of making woodworking tools...{that was close}). Due to the fact that there was no real industry and MDF was banned, trees were in abundant supply and everyman could select his fair share of the best timber Gondbananasland had to offer.
Anyway dear reader paradise as it was the Great God Woodman oneday looked down upon Gondbananasland and said "fair suck oh the sav me old china, the place is filling up with dust". So again the gods conferred and in their great wisdom decided 2 hp dust extractors were most inefficient. The solution dear reader was obvious. The gods gave the woodworkers great skills at building the biggest and most complex dust extraction system the civilised world has ever seen (a skill bypassing some of us in the current fold) and has only been rivialed by the time that Cyclone Alby sucked the doors right offa me old land rover...but I digress.
Anyway, a huge ducting was built all over Gondbanansland. Such was the size it could be seen from outer space, (not that any woody had ever been there because the shingles on the space shuttle kept falling off) It passed everydoor and all an honest law abiding woody had to do was run a smoothbore 5" pipe out to the main and it would almost suck the windows into his shed. It was truly awesome. A ducting the bore of larger than the channel tunnel (and it also sucked down a few frogs) the likes this world has never afore, neigh will agin see the like of yeah. An so beget this truly enlightened civilisation (Genesis, chapter 11 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech) .
Until one terrible day dear reader. In a far corner of Gondbananasland, on a tight elbow in the duct, there was a whirpool buildup, swirling dust in a vortex, and suddenly a great static crack and a massive dust explosion ripped through the ducting blowing the entire land off the face of the planet. The mushroom clouded blacked out the sun for 40 days and forty nights...??? and a great iceage beget the world.
It is said of the last true woody on earth, as he watched the firestorm envelop all that he loved, that he turned and prayed to the gods and said "See I told ya we shouldn't have built the bloody thing outa PVC!".
I would have voted for army ants, they seem better organised than most.
Cheers
Squizzy. Ilike it! Where do I vote for it?
Squizzy.
Thanks for the Rewaders Digest Version.
Where do we get the complete noivel.
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