Basic home wiring

You mean chrisp isn't your real name? :cool:

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Originally Posted by adrian

I had a space under my house that had a concrete slab, power point and lights and nothing else. I converted it to a proper room, put up the walls, plaster and cornice, painted it and tiled the slab, then found out too late that the lights and power point were all on the same circuit. Luckily I isolated the power and light circuit at the same time when it came time to poke the wires through the plaster to remount the fittings. That's the sort of thing D.I.Yers can do when they don't know what they are doing and the fool who did that job placed my life at risk.
Having said that, I have seen some of the bad jobs that electricians have done so I tend to look over their shoulder while they are working.

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Actually under Rule 2.8 of SAA 3000 you can have a mixed circuit. If it is wired in 2.5mm2 cable you can have a maximum load of 4800 watts so you can have up to 15 lighting points and 3 GPO's on that circuit but must not exceed the 4800 watts. If it is wired in less than 2.5mm2 you can't have any GPO's on the circuit.

Remember this is not advise or recommendation, only what the rule book states.

Please read my disclaimer in my signature.

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Originally Posted by silentC

You haven't established that. I was flicking through that link and there seemed to be a lot of categories, including licensed persons, unlicensed persons, members of the public etc and overhead lines, network assets etc. When you can give us a stat that shows how many deaths occurred in homes from incorrectly wired points and lights, then you have something to argue with. At the moment, you just have a number that shows how many people died from electrocution for whatever reason. At the moment, your number would also include people who died from electrocution after touching an overhead wire, people who died installing electrical equipment on the job etc.

If anything, if there is a higher rate of electrocutions in Australia than the UK, it says that we aren't doing enough. And you are using this as an argument for deregulation that would open it up to anybody who wants to do their own wiring? It doesn't make sense to me.

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Why in Heavens name is this so hard to believe. There isnt room for those numbers to be wrong, unless a minister of the crown was misleading parliament! I showed categorical proof that the numbers of people who DIE from electrocution in Australia and the UK is roughly equivalent, but them having a population of 3 times ours makes their rate lower - end of story, that is a fact, no matter what people want to read into it, its the way it is.

Now, i agree that it would be nice to have both countries figures with deaths from various causes, as in, overhead line, high tension, industrial , whatever, but I've provided raw stuff and made a valid point, its up to those who disagree to find a better breakdown. I'm happy if when (if) someone finds better detailed information that I'm proven wrong, but as it stands with the information available in 2 places that use the same voltage/ampege, same language, same wiring regs (pretty much) etc, the one with the most amount of trade restriction (australia) is NOT the safest.

I'd be ecstatic if someone can provide more info.

And when your finished your wiring it will need to be tested

From the 1953 Americans Electricians Handbook - Oh thats right they can do their own wiring can't they.

woodcutta

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Originally Posted by woodcutta

And when your finished your wiring it will need to be tested

From the 1953 Americans Electricians Handbook - Oh thats right they can do their own wiring can't they.

woodcutta

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Yeth, and I've goth the tongue to prove ith. :D :D

The last sparky I had in to do some work (running a new powerpoint from an existing one) told me "not to bother" to turn off the circuit and then proceeded to wire the whole thing whilst it was live. :eek:

Malaysian "electricians" did the same sort of thing while I was up there. The check was to arc out the wires to see if they had power then to disconnect the ceiling fan while balanced on a 15ft ladder made of packing crates while holding the fan in on hand. Was always hoping I wasn't needed for the breath of life.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Disagree with you there. My answer to anyone would be the same. Don't do it, it's illegal, get a sparky.

It's not a grey area, it's cut and dried. Not a question of how hard it is or whether or not people have free will. You're not allowed to do your own wiring, that's the answer when someone asks one of these questions. You can whinge about it as much as you like but them's the facts.

Would also be interested to know the legal consequences for the forum if someone followed the advice posted and something went wrong or they got caught? Hopefully none, but...

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Of course its not a grey area, we all know its illegal, but that's not the point. If you ask me which colour is active, I'll tell you. If I dont know, I wont answer. What you then go and do is your choice. Same as cutting down a protected tree without a permit. You ultimately make the decision. What difference does it make that I tell you to use a chainsaw a certain way. Information does not hurt you.

As to the legal consequences for the forum. Well you wouldn't run one if misinformation was going to get you into trouble. I've seen some advice on here on all sorts of topics that is just plain wrong. But that's the nature of forums, places for discussions.

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Originally Posted by Barry_White

Actually under Rule 2.8 of SAA 3000 you can have a mixed circuit. If it is wired in 2.5mm2 cable you can have a maximum load of 4800 watts so you can have up to 15 lighting points and 3 GPO's on that circuit but must not exceed the 4800 watts. If it is wired in less than 2.5mm2 you can't have any GPO's on the circuit.

Remember this is not advise or recommendation, only what the rule book states.

Please read my disclaimer in my signature.

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I'm amazed and confused. Are there any conditions on where this circuit can exist. Is this allowed in the same building. I can't see the point in requiring separate Power and Light circuit breakers and then allowing people to mix them up. Could you clarify.

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Why in Heavens name is this so hard to believe.

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Because statistics can be used in an incorrect manner to prove a point. Like saying that because more people per capita die from electrocution in Australia than in the UK that it somehow means that our system of preventing home owners from doing their own wiring is failing. It's like saying that licensing car drivers isn't working because our road toll is higher than upper kunbungasthan where they don't issue licenses, so we might as well remove the licensing requirement.

You need to look at the causes of the deaths before you can draw any conclusions. Maybe we have more overhead lines in dangerous positions than they do. Maybe our unions aren't as militant, so the workplaces aren't as safe. It's not logical to say that we have laws preventing people wiring their own houses - our fatalities are higher - the laws don't work. You have to show that the deaths are due to people doing things that the law prohibits and that they would have done better if they had a) been allowed to do them and b) sought the education.

I wonder how many people would "do the course" before wiring up the new points if there was one.

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You ultimately make the decision

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Yeah, like when I decide I'd like to buy one more pint and then get in my car ;)

It's not about incorrect information. It's about correct information that may encourage someone to do something that is not legal. What's the difference between that and telling someone how to break into a car or make a bomb? I just want to know, that's all. Enlighten me.

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Originally Posted by silentC

.....Maybe we have more overhead lines in dangerous positions than they do. Maybe our unions aren't as militant, so the workplaces aren't as safe. .....;)

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Quite so Mr C. Just, for example, 240v tools on a building site in the UK - all 110v mandatory. I don't know what the construction/electrocution stats are in the two countries but I think there is more chalk & cheese here than might be evident at first glance.

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Originally Posted by adrian

... then found out too late that the lights and power point were all on the same circuit. Luckily I isolated the power and light circuit at the same time when it came time to poke the wires through the plaster to remount the fittings. That's the sort of thing D.I.Yers can do when they don't know what they are doing and the fool who did that job placed my life at risk.

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Like Barry said, it is a mixed circuit, they're usaully used in sheds.
The only person placing your life at risk was yourself, but I don't see how a mixed circuit is any more dangerous. When you were isolating there would have been one circuit breaker to take out the whole lot.

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Originally Posted by adrian

I'm amazed and confused. Are there any conditions on where this circuit can exist. Is this allowed in the same building. I can't see the point in requiring separate Power and Light circuit breakers and then allowing people to mix them up. Could you clarify.

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Used for sheds lofts etc so you only have to run one circuit rather than two, pretty damm logical really :cool:

A few months ago I downloaded the list of all electrocutions in NSW over about 6 years. Not many DIY deaths, most were work related either working live or due to old degraded insulation in split steel conduit. I think allowing DIY wiring would encourage replacement of these old circuits.

Not many people are willing or able to shell out $5-$6K for a complete rewire. If they were able to run the wires themselves and get it hooked up by a sparky for $1K, the world would be a safer place.

Cheers
Pulse

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Originally Posted by Pulse

A few months ago I downloaded the list of all electrocutions in NSW over about 6 years. Not many DIY deaths, most were work related either working live or due to old degraded insulation in split steel conduit. I think allowing DIY wiring would encourage replacement of these old circuits.

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Do you know if there is a list that shows injuries or property damage attributed to faulty wiring?

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/pd...ions/ftb35.pdf

There is one for every year

Cheers Pulse