The Australian ID Card

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Originally Posted by AlexS

Well, perhaps it wouldn't worry me if I was sure we had a law abiding government.

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Of course we do! Remember who makes or repeals the laws?....

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Originally Posted by Grunt

Nazi Germany, Russia

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That's grasping at stwas. Hardly good examples - they've gone. Got any in a in a democratic country like ours.

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Originally Posted by Grunt

I believe a lot of our problems are due to certain decisions that our govenment made in blindly following the U.S.

Canada which is demographically close to Australia does not have a problem with terrorism.

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Mate, if you think terroists would leave us alone if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq with the US, then you are dreaming. They want ALL western civilisation gone! The left wings, the greenies, the do-gooders and the far right. The lot. To them we are infidels and nothing more than pond scum. You have to stop them somewhere. Better over there than here.

All this civil rights stuff just leaves loopholes for people who want to do harm to us to jump through. They must be absolutley pissing themselves laughing.

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And by the way, Nazi Germany and the old Russian communist state have gone. In case you hadn't noticed.

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Yes, but it was quite unpleasant for some while they were going on.

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Mate, if you think terroists would leave us alone if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq with the US, then you are dreaming. They want ALL western civilisation gone! The left wings, the greenies, the do-gooders and the far right. The lot. To them we are infidels and nothing more than pond scum. You have to stop them somewhere. Better over there than here.

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Explain why Canada doesn't have the same concerns and out and out threats on terrorism that we do.

If you want a reason try about $700.00 to $800.00 per man women and child covered by the system plus ongoing costs and business compliance costs.

ie Less tools, more tax.

Do a proper cost analysis and I will follow the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Grunt

Canada which is demographically close to Australia does not have a problem with terrorism.

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Hail the mighty Grunt, He's in the zone today, Grunt for P.M.:D
I've always found Kiwis, Aussies, the Irish, Scots and Canadians to be very similar peoples, I've known and worked with quite a few and the comraderies is almost instant, however many others have disturbed me as I fear that which I cannot comprehend.

G'day,

Can I wade in here again and say some of the posts are getting a bit personal by way of attacks against fellow woodies. :(

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Originally Posted by Grunt

Explain why Canada doesn't have the same concerns and out and out threats on terrorism that we do.

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please show me where you get the information that Canada doesn't have concerns about terrorism.

Have you flown in there lately ?

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Originally Posted by Waldo

G'day,

Can I wade in here again and say some of the posts are getting a bit personal by way of attacks against fellow woodies. :(

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Chris, don't mistake good debate for personal attacks. that's not we are on about here.

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Originally Posted by DanP

I have not yet and don't think I will hear a sensible and coherent argument against the ID card.

I have been saying for years that we should have an ID card that everyone over 15 years old has to carry. Think how much easier it would be if a natural disaster such as the tsunami were to hit, to identify people killed. Or car accidents, or any number of things. Those who say that civil liberties are curtailed by an ID card are idiots (as are all civil libertarians).

But then I also say the same of DNA. Everyone should be DNA profiled at about 2 years of age and their DNA filed. You could even put the DNA profile in code on the ID card. Added security.

The only people with something to fear from being identified are those who deserve to have their liberties removed. If you do nothing wrong, you will never have your DNA see the light of day. I see DNA profiling as a bigger deterrent to hideous sex crimes and offenders than the poxy sentences handed down by judges. If someone is caught after they are profiled then they obviously have to be removed from the community and locked up forever, because they obviously can't help themselves.

Dan

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Dan,

I broadly agree with everything that you've said.

As well, there is the small (not!) matter of having linked medical records which such a system would facilitate. Currently, there is very little (if any) linkage between the records of any given person and the various GPs and/or specialists/hospitals/clinics that they might have presented to.

In a previous life I was with an IT consulting firm, doing a lot of work with NSW, Vic, Qld, etc Health Authorities and various organisational subdivisions - and the issue of a coherent linkage was always present, but unresolvable because of current privacy laws. This represents an annual waste of billions of $, and regrettably often less than ideally effective treatment.

As an aside, I note that the National ID system being championed in the UK by messrs Blair & co has fallen foul of the House of Lords.

I don't know why people have such an anti-ID fixation. Virtually every European (mainland) country has had one for really quite some time.

We are all members of a society, and as such should be quite willing to be identifiable individuals in that society.

Hops off barrel and heads for a cold one:p

G'day Gumby,

I know but it's a losing battle those for and against. :)

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Originally Posted by Gumby

That's grasping at stwas. Hardly good examples - they've gone. Got any in a in a democratic country like ours.

Rebutal
Actually pre-war germany was a democratic country, Adolf was elected by due process as a "national socialist". The good people of germany many of them years later after armistice stated they didn't believe he would use his powers, or they didn't realise what was at stake



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All this civil rights stuff just leaves loopholes for people who want to do harm to us to jump through. They must be absolutley pissing themselves laughing.

I believe you are a small business person, it's not state owned is it?, could be forfeit to the state if you break certain laws, like not carrying you ID in the future, couldn't it? I don't often trot this out as patriotism is usually the last argument for those who can find no justification in their actions, but I believe our grandads fought pretty hard for the freedoms their children and us to a lesser degree enjoyed, now some want to through alot of that away for what?, how long did the IRA & England belt each other and did the Poms resort to this cwap.

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Confusion is the name of this game.

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Originally Posted by Gumby

Mate, if you think terroists would leave us alone if we didn't go into Afghanistan or Iraq with the US, then you are dreaming. They want ALL western civilisation gone! The left wings, the greenies, the do-gooders and the far right. The lot. To them we are infidels and nothing more than pond scum. You have to stop them somewhere. Better over there than here.

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Your right. the biggest act of terrorism againsed australia was the bali bombings and amrossi told the court his main issue with australia was our involvment in east timore. it had nothing to do with our involment with america or afghanistan or iraq.

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

Confusion is the name of this game.

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Bruce, things change. If it means we have to give up some freedoms which as you rightly said were hard fought, then so be it. We have to win this war, and that's what we are in. Like it or not. If you take the Germany example, people waited way too long to confront Hitler. France and England both thought they were safe. Remember Chamberlain - peace in our time. No, hit them now. Not later. If they get the bomb..........or if they had it now. Can you imagine the world if the rougue middle eastern states had the power the US has. Good night Charlie, we wouldn't be here now.

It's just that I do not share the view that governments can't be trusted and we'll end up in some controlled state. I agree with Dan, we should have a DNA register as well. The badies would suffer, not us.

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Originally Posted by redwood

Your right. the biggest act of terrorism againsed australia was the bali bombings and amrossi told the court his main issue with australia was our involvment in east timore. it had nothing to do with our involment with america or afghanistan or iraq.

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Some consider Amrossi, a bumbling fool who took a fair amount of the rap.

A refresher in terrorism on Aussie soil, everyone seems to have forgotten

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1202891.htm

Old internet truism "as soon as Nazis are mentioned in a thread all hope of rational debate is lost..."

Well, true since the early '80s anyway.:rolleyes: