Kids Behaviours, who is to blame?

Kids are like border collies. First two years sets thier behaviours for life IMO.

We rarely smack our children and if so its a small one on the hand that hurts thier pride more than anything else.

Just like a border collie its consistancy. EVERY time they need direction they get it. If they are stepping out of line they need to be stopped immediately, and if that means stopping your conversation mid sentence/turning from the TV or putting down the garden hose then you need to do that.

We have had our kids in both public and private (catholic). Would choose catholic over public anyday. At least the teachers are given support and dont need to take crap from any kid.

I feel for you burnsy, thanks for your efforts, but the orcs are at the walls, Grond is battering the front gate, and the darkness is open you. :p

Best to be moving on to greener pastures if you can. :)

Burnsy I recall you saying your not a parent yet ???

From the day we are born we are being poked proded and stared at, told to grow up, act a particular way, behave, try this try that, back ground has nothing to do with any of these things

Socio-economics has nothing to do with bad or good behaviour rich and famous poor ,stupid, dumb etc all.

Many have said before look around you and see what/who is beaking laws throwing tamntrums, taking drugs, grog, those who are getting away with it always hide it the most.

I know a teacher who was at private catholic schools all her life, is at present on long service leave pending retirement who has slung all her investments to her kids which includes 4 properties, just so she can go and claim the Gov pention.
She see's herself as honest hard working paid her taxes and deserves some back. She is earning cash in hand for work she is tutoring this includes deals with local councils.

To this we see daily media with news of both sides fo the coin those from low income and those from high income all breaking the laws the same laws. It's the life draw whic dictates $$$$$ what we do with it is OUR OWN DOING.

Ok what do we do

We point out that WE/THEY/YOU are responsible for your actions if you shoot into a crowd with a gun you'll hit kill someone, If you thow a stone at a window it breaks.
One thing in life is critain DEATH we are all born to die.

If they stopped pandering and saying that OH my child can't shouldn't see that it will effect them for the rest of their lives.

I am a fine example disable for many years since age 7 when it first exposed itself 40 years on still no closer to exact diagnosis, and for 40+ years I have had to fight for the freedom to be seen heard and recognised for what I can do have done have taught myslef as well as having been taught. I have been told by proffessionals it shouldn't bother me but if thesame thing happens to an able then OH shyte they need counselling they trauma treament. My family backgound comes from both sides of the coin as many of us do.

I give the example of the rich man who used to wander Sydney's streets as a pawper putting coins meters so peole would be having to pay fines. Till he got caught and news changed his life for ever again. He had left th high flying life becasue he couldn't handle the preasure. He had to hide yet again.

Look at the ones who encourage the post it on the net they are making $$$$$$$$$$$$ from it. How much are they contributing to the cause and effect.

Truth or Dare

Well said wheelin'

Some parents behaviors even though well meaning give kids the wrong message.
Watch carefully on a very wet day.It is raining hard,how many kids wear raincoats (or should I say,are made to wear raincoats?. Where I live almost none. Students turn up for classes soaked. The same parents of some of the kids who won't wear the raincoats bring the cherubs to school in the car.

One of the school gates has the road ending at the gate.It is also the vehicle and bicycle access for school. Parents drive right to the gate and double park and /or 3 point turn to drop their cherubs closer to the school buildings so the cherubs who will not wear a raincoat will not get as wet.

It is this type of attitude that the kids pick up on.

If anyones interested I have taken the problem up with he appropriate person and have had the buck passed.Needless to say I am still working on it.
Grahame

I thought Nth Queenslaners had oily skin to repel water...:p

That helps slip by new south welshmen when playing footy.

Weren't you in taswegia?

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Originally Posted by Gingermick

That helps slip by new south welshmen when playing footy.

Weren't you in taswegia?

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Kicked me out :D . Wasnt into that sister stuff :p

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Originally Posted by Carry Pine

Who is to blame?
As a teacher, I'm not prepared to accept the responsibility for what a kid wears to school or when he swears at school staff. His parents will say that he has a school uniform but sneaks other clothes into his bag and that maybe the teacher provoked him.(Let's have a time wasting session to replay everything that happened in the lesson so we find out it really wasn't the kid's fault.)
Carry Pine

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Fair comment. It appears that the whole blame game when it comes to parents and teachers is a universal argument. I have friends who work in elite private schools that make the same point. I agree that parents cannot be held soley responsible for their child's behaviour, especially teenagers, however I can not see how it can be anyone but the parents fault when an 11 year old does not wear, uniform to school, brings mobile phones and other banned items to school or has not taken their ADHD medication.

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Originally Posted by wheelinround

Burnsy I recall you saying your not a parent yet ???

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That is correct wheelin, but I am not sure what relevance this has. I have met many parents who have retrained to become teachers, many are good teachers, many are not so good. Although there are some similarities, I in my opinion it is a false belief that because you are a good parent you will be a good teacher, likewise it would follow that if you are a good teacher you will not necessarily be a good parent. Where I sit on the parenting scale is yet to be seen and only time will tell. I do hope however that I have learned from some of the mistakes that I have seen other parents make.

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Originally Posted by wheelinround

Look at the ones who encourage the post it on the net they are making $$$$$$$$$$$$ from it. How much are they contributing to the cause and effect.
Truth or Dare

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I don't get your point here, are you saying that by posting this on the net I am contributing to the problem? If so how?


I have an interesting observation regarding the respect issue from today. The local community police officer made a planned visit this morning to speak with a group of students who had been involved in a fair bit of bullying and fighting both inside school and within the community after/outside of school. Many of these kids are on a new program of organised play (sport) at recess and lunch to stop them from roaming the school and getting themselves into trouble. They told the officer about this and asked if he would come and play cricket with them on Friday at lunch time. He said he would love to do that as it is better to visit for a good reason and if they stayed out of trouble till Friday he would come. Despite our best efforts to redirect these kids throughout the day and remind them of the Friday cricket game, four of the ten were suspended before the final siren. Although they had towed the line in front of the officer, their attitude for the rest of the day was "I don't care, who wants to play cricket with him anyway?" As mentioned before it is not just teachers who cop this but nurses, doctors, the police and anyone else who works with children.

I too don't have an answer but it is a good discussion.

PS, was spat on (in the eye:~) hit and kicked again today:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

I too don't have an answer but it is a good discussion.

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It's an excellent topic and gives us all a chance to put in our bit.
I sympathize with teachers and take my hat off to them for the job they do and it's good to know they think enough of the kids to want to try and solve the problem. I think we all wish there was an easy solution to the problem. We don't know the answers but if we help even a few kids with a discussion such as this, then it's been worth it.

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That is correct wheelin, but I am not sure what relevance this has. I have met many parents who have retrained to become teachers, many are good teachers, many are not so good. Although there are some similarities, I in my opinion it is a false belief that because you are a good parent you will be a good teacher, likewise it would follow that if you are a good teacher you will not necessarily be a good parent. Where I sit on the parenting scale is yet to be seen and only time will tell. I do hope however that I have learned from some of the mistakes that I have seen other parents make.

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Finaly I found the wrap quote thing.:doh:

Well Burnsy I believe you answered your own question here. By saying you have no idea what sort of parent you will be (yet to be seen). That all you can hope for is learning from others and lessons you have gleened.
There is no rule book for parenting many have been written all have failed few have success (just read the bible its full of it even Christ was a rebel) (I am not preaching here just pointing out how far back it goes).
Regard in future all those parents you regard as usless parents with the thought that they to are learning each and every day just as the children you teach do and yourself.

I for many years saw kids and teachers adults treating their kids I also gleened lifes lessons. I also failed but I have 3 great kids 26 28 30 yrs. NOT perfect I am proud to call them mine. Taught to stand on their own two feet, believe in life and respect to give respect where it is given. To understand that no one is perfect yet we all strive to be, not in someone elses eyes but in our own.

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I don't get your point here, are you saying that by posting this on the net I am contributing to the problem? If so how?

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No not you Burnsy :no: just look where kids get the idea from media the net chat rooms. We as kids used to do this in parks, behind the toilet blocks, playing games. Who owns media, who owns the sites they are putting the stuff up on, the same people who are the largest share holders the money magnets.

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I have an interesting observation regarding the respect issue from today. The local community police officer made a planned visit this morning to speak with a group of students who had been involved in a fair bit of bullying and fighting both inside school and within the community after/outside of school. Many of these kids are on a new program of organised play (sport) at recess and lunch to stop them from roaming the school and getting themselves into trouble. They told the officer about this and asked if he would come and play cricket with them on Friday at lunch time. He said he would love to do that as it is better to visit for a good reason and if they stayed out of trouble till Friday he would come. Despite our best efforts to redirect these kids throughout the day and remind them of the Friday cricket game, four of the ten were suspended before the final siren. Although they had towed the line in front of the officer, their attitude for the rest of the day was "I don't care, who wants to play cricket with him anyway?" As mentioned before it is not just teachers who cop this but nurses, doctors, the police and anyone else who works with children.

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So you all put the peasure on eh didn't trust them to make it to Friday, kept them busy so much so they may have got the shytes with it all. No different to you or I under stress related time frames and we are older.

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I too don't have an answer but it is a good discussion.

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Hail Hail parents have said the same thing for centuries its all a game "WHO's TOP DOG"

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PS, was spat on (in the eye:~) hit and kicked again today:rolleyes:

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Unfortunatley you can't relate the full circumstances.

This I don't think should happen to anyone teacher nurse parent (bus/coach driver I had my share of it too) not just by kids adults, woman & men in suits.

nah was going to relate something but nope.

It has become a top discussion I agree lest hope its not keepig you from your WOODWORK top priority and worthy stress relief for us all.

quote: Many of these kids are on a new program of organised play (sport) at recess and lunch to stop them from roaming the school and getting themselves into trouble. (Burnsy)

Burnsy, we have this too- called 'supervised play'. It's for kids who don't know how to play games with each other. And how sad is that? We have about 20 out of a school of 360. Organised and monitored by teacher's aides and the executive takes overall responsibility. We show them how to play checkers (draughts for you old folks like me) and even chess. They also play structured ball games and gross motor stuff. Interesting that they have never been taught checkers before! We also play simple card games where you need to take turns- another learning experience.

Carry Pine

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Originally Posted by Carry Pine

quote: Many of these kids are on a new program of organised play (sport) at recess and lunch to stop them from roaming the school and getting themselves into trouble. (Burnsy)

Burnsy, we have this too- called 'supervised play'. It's for kids who don't know how to play games with each other. And how sad is that? We have about 20 out of a school of 360. Organised and monitored by teacher's aides and the executive takes overall responsibility. We show them how to play checkers (draughts for you old folks like me) and even chess. They also play structured ball games and gross motor stuff. Interesting that they have never been taught checkers before! We also play simple card games where you need to take turns- another learning experience.

Carry Pine

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This is not personal its the program I am knocking who ever thought it up needs to open their minds more.

I find it shame that people seem to think everyone has to be a part of a team, supervised, not left to have time to themselves to think things through. Yes this can result in major problems. How often do adults need time alone adults are still somebodies kids.
If your teaching in a rual comunity what time do your kids get up do they have chores to do, sibblings to help get ready while mum n dad are off working the farm at work or just got home from it.

My cousins lived 50 minutes sorry (it was 50 mins when I drove the run years later) 1 1/2 hrs by bus from their high school. They had to be up and at the bus stop by 7am this was after crossing the river by punt. I when driving country kids started one run at 6.30am first pick up. same travel time home. then all these kids had chores to do.
No time to themselves, always part of a family get in get it done.
Ever tried a regeneration period at school.

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Originally Posted by Carry Pine

Burnsy, we have this too- called 'supervised play'. It's for kids who don't know how to play games with each other. And how sad is that? We have about 20 out of a school of 360. Organised and monitored by teacher's aides and the executive takes overall responsibility. We show them how to play checkers (draughts for you old folks like me) and even chess. They also play structured ball games and gross motor stuff. Interesting that they have never been taught checkers before! We also play simple card games where you need to take turns- another learning experience.

Carry Pine

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Sad isn't it that these kids lack the ability to interact socially with each other in a positive way, it seems all to common. If left to their own devices these kids roam in a pack targeting others as a form of amusement. They are all capable at sports and enjoy playing it but without being told that is the only option they have they will not go out and play of their own accord. However, the really sad thing is, they are all mates but even when they play a game of cricket together they end up arguing and fighting. The whole ideal of fair play and sportsmanship is just lost on them and they will generally choose to take the bat and leave rather than hand it over to the next batter quickly so they can try and get them out so that they may have another bat:rolleyes: They need an adult constantly present to tell them they are out or it is someone elses turn (like the computer does when they loose) and even then they will argue or sulk.

Another nail driven in by to much time spent in front of the game console and not enough actually socialising:((. When I ask many of the boys in my class what they got up to over the weekend they will say they went to a friends, or such and such came over to play. When I ask what did they do? The answer is played X-Box 9 times out of ten. This hardly rates as playing as far as I am concerned - sitting together in front of a screen for three hours but not speaking or interacting with each other outside of what is happening within the game.

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Sad isn't it that these kids lack the ability to interact socially with each other in a positive way, it seems all to common. If left to their own devices these kids roam in a pack targeting others as a form of amusement. They are all capable at sports and enjoy playing it but without being told that is the only option they have they will not go out and play of their own accord. However, the really sad thing is, they are all mates but even when they play a game of cricket together they end up arguing and fighting. The whole ideal of fair play and sportsmanship is just lost on them and they will generally choose to take the bat and leave rather than hand it over to the next batter quickly so they can try and get them out so that they may have another bat:rolleyes: They need an adult constantly present to tell them they are out or it is someone elses turn (like the computer does when they loose) and even then they will argue or sulk.

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1st sentance why do they have to interact socially in a positive way:?
Did you when you were at school were you forced to be part of a group/click/gang/team:? The difference betwen a Gang and team is what exactly..........just the term used one dorogatory. Look at any sport these days one or two are the chosen ones the rest are their only to fill the gaps. News reports of player NOT Team work. It starts at school by teachers they pick the special ones out they make them stand out give them status. Weekend sports are no different it takes all players to get the points not just one person.

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Another nail driven in by to much time spent in front of the game console and not enough actually socialising:((. When I ask many of the boys in my class what they got up to over the weekend they will say they went to a friends, or such and such came over to play. When I ask what did they do? The answer is played X-Box 9 times out of ten. This hardly rates as playing as far as I am concerned - sitting together in front of a screen for three hours but not speaking or interacting with each other outside of what is happening within the game.

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Your doing exactly the same aren't you Burnsy in this forum. kids are also even if its online gaming. Wwe se members be ridiculed, poked fun at it even gets serious your still somebodies KID playing with a computer. Your not soicalising by doing this HOW??:doh:
Chat rooms are not socialising HOW??
Kids playing games on machines is not learning socialising HOW??
When kids get together they talk games, what they did the night before, who they chatted to the night before how they won.
Adults sit and watch TV use the computer whats the difference:roll:.

You go to your shed and oh NO your anti social away from the wife/family/freinds:o then you come and brag show off get social in the new world the whole world.

We seem to have a society that must apportion blame

rather than teach people how to overcome and avoid failures.

So all blame should obviously be that of society itself.

and Punishment should fit the crime

Publicly humiliate the ratbags and watch nonsence dissipate very rapidly

A set of stocks should be installed and used in every school yard and shopping mall