This makes one think...
Australian 12-monthly mean temperature anomalies since 1911
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This makes one think...
Australian 12-monthly mean temperature anomalies since 1911
Imagine solar panels on every roof.
Local battery storage. Elevated water storage where feasible for pumped hydro storage.
A trillion Kwh spare for desalination plants... And send it to the farm land.
Fields of wind turbines... Some our to sea.
Recycling of every scrap. Metal, glass, paper, bio....
Biodiesel and methanol distillaries using hemp.
PlyScrapers made with local materials, local fabricaria for DIY and cheap initial housing for all.
Plant vast timber forests. Replenish the rain forests.
It's a dream. I'm in love with it.
Looks like Solar Paint might be worth reading about too.
solar paint - Google Search
who remembers Bob Hawke's ONE BILLION trees by 2000?Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicity
anybody?
100 million trees is but a drop in that ocean.
BTW, the cost to Government would be closer to $10 per tree if everyone were to be given 4 trees. You know, you can't get in the way of private enterprise (AKA the consultant industry) turning a decent profit.
Buying in bulk would more likely cost about 20 cents per tree, it's the consultants that add the rest of the cost.
Garbage! Total garbage!
There will be a presentation shortly to our illustrious government demonstrating the use of perishable waste to make electricity. A mini plant is currently under construction so the boffins can see it happen first hand.
WPQuote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
I think that's a lovely selection of thoughts. Can I add an addition? I don't want to grow old!
:wink:
:D
Regards
Paul
How about an addition of half an inch of rain every night between 2 and 3am and sunshine all day? Plenty of water and minimal inconvenience to anyone
Im just wondering. At what level do we humans require the obviousness of a complete and total existential threat to act?
Has it simply become too big? Despite our apparent genius, perhaps we cant "solve" this and this is the end of the road for our species?
Have we created our own extinction level event?
I'm reminded of this comic...
Attachment 466981
I watched David Speers interview with Smoko (30 minutes). He's acknowledged the Hawaii mistake, and is going to present a Bushfires Royal Commission possibility to Cabinet.
What mystifies me though is why Journalists (even those as good as Speers) don't insist on windbag politicians answering the question. Smoko went off on big long non-answers - just taking the opportunity to beat his chest. Finally after 3 minutes of this Speers asked him the same question again, and still did not get a definitive answer.
Smoko complained that he had already responded to such-and-such twice before (previous to today) "I've already answered that on two other occasions" but he's quite happy to beat his chest about some minor achievement every day until even he gets sick of it. "So answer it again for those who didn't hear, and we'll see if your answer is the same twice running".
The job of a Journalist is to hold them to account, not give them endless opportunities to pass wind.
I just hope that people remember that he had to be shoved into many of the current small fixes, like the Royal Commission idea (not sure who), compensating Fireys (Albanese), shutting his mouth for a few days (Cobargo residents), getting more aircraft (who??), because he'll claim them all as his own. Bloody disgraceful performance from a so called Leader. Hasn't had a single original idea to fix this, that I know of.
XAttachment 466982Quote:
Originally Posted by woodpixel
Mod edit
:rulez2:
seriously, what benefit will we get from a Royal Commission? and will such a commission need to wait till after the WA, Vic, SA, NSW, Qld and Tas coroners have held their enquiries?Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Conclusion 1 -- Climate change is real and we as humans need to something more than look at the problem and go "It's all too hard."
Conclusion 2 -- the current widespread drought greatly exacerbated the severity of the fire season.
Conclusion 3 -- hazard reduction burns had little to no effect on the current fires.
Conclusion 4 -- every road in a "fire prone area" needs to be cleared out to the fence line (or even beyond) so that the road acts as a real fire break. Kiss good bye to most species other than foxes, feral cats and dogs getting across such a barrier.
Conclusion 5 -- The RFS, CFA, et al need to be placed on a more sustainable footing.
plus another 100 or so
One of the most enjoyable aspects of war are the small-group militias. Partisans, ninjas, SAS knife squads... Smash and grab, vaporise into the woodwork...Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
Perhaps, rather than monolithic organisations based on endless interminable hierarchy, we could use the CFA in such a manner. They look after their patch (cos everyone fights like hell to save their own), but can be rapidly deployed in other near-local groupings. Act like ants or hornets in a swarm.
Every 200 or 1000 citizens must put forward a group of people, then its provided with a truck and gear. It's kept in a shed Just In Case.
I'm certain this is how the CFA would operate now. From the people I've seen over the last few weeks, they are as rough and Aussie as they come. They'd happily tell some duded-up bureaucrat to go shove it up their Khyber.... but very happily thorw themselves into front.
(My son and I are joining. Its the right thing to do)
My fear with ScoMo is he sees things ONLY in a monolithic top-down hierarchy (e.g. "god") and They will use this to create yet-another mega department.... being in Canberra I see hundreds of these one-off political-solution one-time departments who generate nothing but pointless paperwork to justify their indefensible existences.
Nothing is done by these people by accident. ScoMo was chosen for a reason. Perhaps its good to have an idiot as the king... especially for those unseen string-pullers with the real ambitions.
I’m on the same page as most here but here’s a few thoughts for discussion.
The east coast of Oz was mostly rain forest way back, a lot of species that now only exist in Tas were up here.
This has been changed over the use of fire by the local original inhabitants, has anyone considered this in the call for aboriginal burning.
Also what effect have these current fires had on our remaining pockets of rainforest on the escarpment etc let alone the Wollemi region.
Has any real in depth research been done on why various society’s have collapsed in the past ?
Easter Island springs to mind but also there were a few in South America plus those in the top end of Africa that the desert overan.
Are we the next in line?
H.
Much as many would like to deny it, humans are an integral part of the environment. Always have been, always will be as long as there are people on the Earth. Clear Out makes the excellent point that the landscape which the early settlers found when they came here was largely influenced by Aboriginal land management practices Without their influence who knows what the place would have looked like. It begs the question -"What is really the natural environment?" Is it what you get as a combination of the geology, weather patterns and flora and fauna (humans included)? Still, humans are about the only part of the equation which could possibly have any real control over the outcome, so whatever your view of who or what is responsible for the mess WE are responsible for fixing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by clear out
Does "fixing it" necessarily mean taking it back to what it was before? I cannot see that as a satisfactory solution because WE changed it because there are now more of us to feed and accommodate than there was "before". Would Cultural burning and reintroduction of the old species of flora and fauna allow the region to support it's current population? The environment has to evolve with the growth or we have to restrict the growth. Either way it's up to the human race to manage this.
The population of Australia before the First Fleet arrived is estimated to have been 750,000. Now it is 25,000,000. Obviously things have to be a little different. We cannot go back to how it was.
I don't think anyone is suggesting we can go back to how it was. Is no possible.
I don't see how Cultural Burning can't fit in to the current lifestyle, as it's just a more gentle alternative to the White Fella's far more aggressive hazard reduction / back-burning.
It may well be just the thing we need. We don't have to throw away everything in the past to move on to a prosperous future. All I was saying is we need to go with what works and change what doesn't. If the Aboriginal custodians can tailor the cultural burns to make the landscape support what it now has to support and not try to use it to restore what once was then why not go for it? But of course, we have continued to push back the boundaries of sustainability way beyond breaking point many times already. If we could suddenly change the environment to be perfect and sustainable for now, what will stop us from continuing to expand our numbers and demand on resources until we are once again where we are now?Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Agreed Doug.
I'm not sure that would really come into it because the burns would just be in bushland (I would have thought). Now that may well be privately owned bushland (i.e. the bush around somebody's buildings). I doubt it would have any place in non-bush areas, but who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by doug3030
Well, yes, it would have to be considered as part of the whole overall environmental system. There has to be a balance which means that there must be enough bushland and it must be sustainable and flourishing. Bushland is the lungs of the earth. It is also the habitat for so much of the flora and fauna which make up the all important biodiversity the greenies rightly go on about. It is a major part of keeping the whole system healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Does anyone know the difference between cultural burning and any other back burning operation?
The wildlife gets effected and or dies just the same.
All the Climate Change Deniers that I have come across or read about, and that includes Malcolm Roberts, have an enviable characteristic: they all, to an individual, claim to be open minded about it. That being the case, they should have no trouble reading this:
Have you got climate zombies? We debunk the myths that refuse to die - Science News - ABC News
The best line is this (with reference to Climate Science being a conspiracy of the elites):
"The plot: 97 per cent of the world's scientists contrive an environmental crisis,
only to be exposed by a plucky band of billionaires and oil companies."
If I recall correctly, indigenous land management practices 230 years ago produced an environment reasonably tolerant to fire -- early settlers talk about "park like woodlands". But I'm not sure the carrying capacity of the land was all that great. Certainly not what is required to support a 25+ Million peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by clear out
it's too soon to know whether the Wollemi pines survived the inferno.Quote:
Originally Posted by clear out
As for the coastal rain forest Binna Burra burned back in October and UNESCO is asking hard questions about whether the burn has destroyed those qualities that led to the forest being declared a special region
well the Hopi culture in SW USA collapsed around 1300 as a result of climate change impacting their viability.Quote:
Originally Posted by clear out
Easter Island lost their timber forest and the society went backwards.
Europe is a heavily modified landscape that has been adapting to climate change for eons.
Ancor watt (yes, my spelling is completely off) is assumed to have collapsed when the surrounding rice paddies couldn't keep up the supply of food.
Ditto various communities in South and Central America and as you mentioned, where once forests and grasslands reigned Northern Africa is mostly desert.
Unfortunately, I think soQuote:
Are we the next in line?
Yes, intensity. It is explained very well in the video in this news article:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
That is highly disputable. Because of the low intensity there is much more time for critters to get out of the way. Yes, some do perish, but it is not "just the same". Furthermore, because the energy output is so much less, the heat doesn't penetrate as far underground which means wildlife from there is much less affected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
If you search for reptiles in an area that is regularly culturally burnt they are not as prolific as other areas
I haven't watched the video posted below, but listened to a couple of interviews with the same man. As I understand it, in cultural burning the flames only reach knee height, and the temperatures are much lower. I'm not sure how that is achieved - perhaps it's shown on the video. Reportedly, it's possible to walk barefoot on the ground immediately after the fire has passed. By comparison, I looked at an RFS controlled burn that had been carried out last spring. The flames appeared to have been 2-3 metres high, and didn't appear to have killed any trees, grasses or shrubs that were living. However, there was some charring on most trees and shrubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
It looks like most local birds, snakes and mammals survive the burn (including bloody feral cats), but I'm not sure about insects and spiders, which are just as important. A complicating factor is that this year, perhaps because of the hot, dry weather, the larger spiders, birds and insects seem to have deserted the higher ground, I suspect in favour of the lower ground close to water.
Maybe (and that is only anecdotal evidence) but compared to an area that has more aggressive hazard reduction there would still be more reptiles. An area that has had a bushfire through it has virtually nil reptiles, so if cultural burning can reduce the bushfire hazard then surely that's a good thing isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
Do you have evidence of that claim, or can you point to any? Have you been part of searches for reptiles?
I agree with you wholeheartedly that it is better than the devastating uncontrolled fires we have been experiencing, I was just pointing out that it is not without its issues as well , not to mention the smoke hazard. The RFS have pointed this out how they have been demonised themselves for the smoke pollution from backburning in the past.
I received the information from my son who lived in an aboriginal community for over a year in the top end who regularly practice cultural burning and is also an experienced reptile spotter and photographer ( the main reason he was there)
A question I've been thinking about for a very long time:
--> At the time of European contact, why were there so FEW aboriginals here?*
Maybe, just maybe, that is all the land can support long term? Did "we" arrive at a Golden Time?
*edit: added a reference: Indigenous Australians - Wikipedia
Yes well I think it's time people from the Big Smoke got over having some off-season smoke around. CB smoke would be nowhere near as bad as conventional hazard reduction smoke either - have a look at that 10 minute video - no safety gear at all except for gloves!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
I have to admit to grumbling about it myself back in the day when I was a Pro Photog in Sydney - it would bugger up the late light! I did recognise it as necessary though :D
This is exactly the problem with forming an opinion based an anecdotal evidence, and why it needs to be challenged. He was only there for one season, possibly part of the second. That season may have had less reptiles around for other year to year seasonal reasons. Claims like that need to be based on several years worth of observations, regardless of how experienced someone might be. Note that I am not saying that there is no decrease in reptiles, just that the evidence is far too short term, and not really scientific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
I didn't think there were any humans at all....Terra Nullius and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
If you are searching in the same region on land that is subject to cultural burning and the adjacent area that is not and you can note a difference in wildlife populations I think that is a noteworthy reasonable observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Obviously the best case is to not have it burn at all but that is not realistic. I am just making the point because there are those that will think it is without a downside
Just on the smoke issue from the latest fires. Was Canberra effected more than other areas from the smoke?
I found it strange that they closed offices and public buildings because of it and yet they were probably the safest places to be with their filtration systems on their commercial AC units.
Hopefully after this round of fires people might learn to appreciate the need to do a controlled burn - cultural or otherwise. In future it would be good if people appreciate the work being done to make their property safer and thank the fireys instead of demonizing them. But there will always be those who are only happy when they have something to whine about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
In the past couple of weeks we have had a lot of smoke haze here in Melbourne and the nearest fires are hundreds of kilometers away. Surely people can put up with a few days of burning off every couple of years rather than go through this again.
Agreed Doug. I don't know if this already happens - perhaps it does - but the various Authorities could help "sell" the situation in advance by putting out warnings in the news ("next few days may be smoky - we've tried to select the best time yadda yadda") and also show some short footage of previous catastrophes to reinforce the point that it needs to be done. People are much less inclined to be upset if they know something is probably/possibly coming (that's basic sales training). It also gives asthmatics et al the opportunity to nick off for a while if they are in a position to do so, or buy some P2 masks.
One of the side issues that has been very slightly amusing to me is that the general population now knows what a P2 mask is - we've all known about them for years :D
If the authorities have not been advertising backburning activities, and I have never heard any advanced publicity for them, then it may be because if people who oppose them got advanced warning they could try to disrupt the operation or just protest somehow until the activity is called off. Maybe that attitude will change now.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Hi,
The ACT has a site for upcoming , planed burns. They usually get moved around due to weather and/or available resources.
Regards
Prior to a weekend of planned FR burns in a number of areas around Sydney last year, the RFS publicised that they would be happening, at least on the ABC. That didn't stop people ringing up to complain, some saying that if you live near the bush you should be prepared to put up with bushfires.
Some people are just efwits.
A similar web site can be found on the TFS web site in Tassie. I have been involved in fuel reduction burning at various levels for many years and it is unusual to get adverse feedback in relation to these burns. I my time with Parks I've never had an issue with "Greenies" protesting or trying to stop fuel reduction burns(FRB's) and that includes burns in some of our iconic National Parks. There seems to be a wide public acceptance of the need for FRB's. In my experience, the arguments that Greenies are stopping FRB's is BS. Concerns from immediate neighbours are not uncommon but are generally dealt with during the planning process.
Each burn will have its own issues and these are addressed by detailing appropriate weather conditions(wind direction and speed, temperature, humidity) fuel moisture level, ignition details and suppression resources just in case. As a result the decision on which areas to burn is made with one or two days notice based on forecast weather and resource availability. There is a limited window for fuel reduction burning, either Autumn or early Winter when the soils are no longer bone dry, but not too wet, or in spring as the soils are drying out. This window seems to be reducing with the hotter drier conditions of recent years.
In terms of protecting community asserts, its generally smaller strategic burns on the urban interface that have the greatest benefit but the work and negotiating, preparing and executing one of these is substantial. When Governments mandate FRB area targets its much easier to light large remote area from the air than small resource intense burns of a few hectares on the urban interface.
However, when faced with extreme fire weather conditions FRB's can not be relied on for protection. I've seen wildfires stopped by these fuel reduced areas and I've seen wildfires burn straight over them. They certainly have a role in protecting communities in that reducing fule allows firefighters to safely operate under a greater range of weather conditions but FRB's are not a silver bullet and not the solution to our problems the some sections of the media would have us believe.
Something does not have to be a "silver bullet" to contribute to a favorable outcome. Further back in the thread someone said water bombing aircraft are not a silver bullet either. Fireys on the ground in trucks aren't silver bullets either. Nothing else in the arsenal of tools used to prevent and fight fires is a silver bullet either.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony_A
It's a matter of utilizing the strengths of all these "not silver bullets" to achieve the best outcome and that means before, during and after the fire. They all have a time and a place. Trouble is there's too much bickering and arguing about what is right ans what is wrong to let it be managed properly. If only the same energy and enthusiasm as they use in arguing was used for fire prevention and management there would not be as much of a problem.
I didn't know that there was a special electronic category of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexS
AlexQuote:
Originally Posted by AlexS
I have heard this line of thinking before. The last time I queried whether the person felt the same way towards flood victims too. That quietened him a little. I could have added the victims of cyclones as well. Then there is drought and towns running out of water. We are not always a compassionate nation unfortunately.
Regards
Paul
Someone asked about Canberra smoke.
For direct comparison I've no way of knowing how bad others have had it, but it has been continuous here. Some days it has been severe and dense. It tends to come and go to an extent, but I cant really recall a day in the last few weeks which was clear. It would be easy to describe it as "bad". Many building sites are closed due to it.
There have been many days and a lot of nights where sleeping with the windows open wasn't an option. On top of that weve had some blisteringly hot days (43° and most seem to be 30-33). The heat banking occurring in buildings must becoming a problem.
I bought the family these, just in case: Base Camp Mask plus they came with 12 spare filters. Better than nothing and better than the toys being sold by the chemists and shysters.
Nobody I know has respiratory problems, but as we woodies can all attest, a few weeks in a dusty workshop has us all hacking a long time after.... I'd imagine doctors are being asked about A Quick Fix.
On public building closures, one can be rightly cynical about the motivations of Canberras public service when it comes to excuses for time off. I'm absolutely tired of them. Actually, I'm fed up with them. I'm not a right winger, or some raving capitalist, but by golly do they as a group know how to use the system to achieve very little.
Attachment 467116