Future of the Australian Electricity Market

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Furthermore, having solar panels with a home battery won't improve that situation because the smallest car batteries are 3-4x the capacity of a home battery.

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Hopefully, as Bob says, most people will top up their battery every day/night so that domestic/EV battery discrepancy shouldn't be too much of an issue, especially if they can get a good charge at the weekend. Most city/town dwellers don't travel excessive distances on a day-to-day basis, especially now that working from home is such a big thing (temporarily?).

Those city dwellers in apartments won't have access to domestic PV, so they're the people who will need overnight charging or daytime charging at work, and if they're reliant on overnight charging then......

If we were proactive, I imagine we'd be insisting that all new developments had powered carparking spaces, and we'd be replacing parking meters with trickle chargers and so forth. After all, if an EV was connected to even a tiny power supply (10amp domestic or below) EVERY TIME it was parked, with the exception of occasional long journeys I'd imagine 99% would never need anything more. This is why I don't understand the installation of city charging stations in the form of servo's, surely omnipresent small supplies are better than sporadic huge ones?

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Furthermore, having solar panels with a home battery won't improve that situation because the smallest car batteries are 3-4x the capacity of a home battery.

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More like 5-6x

BUT
The need for most city users to fully recharge every day is rare.
In 6 months EV use, I have used 2118 kWh of charge, 88% (1863 kWh) of which has been charged at home
This works out to just 10 kWh a a day so at say a 90% round trip efficiency (most decent battery systems can achieve this), if I had say a 13 kWh hour battery I could "in theory" be away from home all day but could full recharge my EV from the home battery at night.

In practice
- some days the EV uses more than 10kWh, other days it might use less
- some days your PV system may not produce 10kWh of battery charge eg weather or home use.

However, one rarely needs to recover absolutely every bit of eV battery charge in one go every time one charges, so what if you only charge from the home battery to say 70%, or do not even charge at all - it can be made up on other nights. This approach results in minimal draw from the grid at night.
My brother and his wife have this setup and they have 2 EVs. He's retired and is at home most days so he can charge is car during the day. Excess solar goes into a 13kW battery to help charge his wife's small eV at night. She does very few km in her car (ie works and back) so only needs 2-3kWh of house battery each day to cover her travel and the rest of the solar usually covers his car and their homes needs at night.

I don't have a battery and these days I am often away from home during the day.
When I come home I sometimes forget to plug in but I'm getting better at remembering - its dead easy as the EV socket plug and charger are right next to my front door.
During winter with reduced overall solar production coming home after 4pm doesn't add much charge to the EV so at best I estimate I was getting at best about 50% of my EV charge from solar during winter. Because I'm not using ACs in winter at least virtually all of the solar output can go into the EV.


With summer approaching the extended daylight means there are many days where it's possible to recharge both my car and power my home (2 ACs) mostly from solar.
Below is one example for a typical 36º summer day in Perth.
The graphic shows power produced, consumed and exported/imported, and shows I used solar to power 75% of my total requirements
The graphic also shows I still exported 5.8 kWh so if I had used a battery my grid usage would have been reduced to ~10% of total usage.

Y axis scale needs to be multiplied by 4 to show proper kWh readings
The gap between the red and green lines shows my base power use ~700W which includes a small bedroom AC that stayed on all day.
The gap between the green and blue lines shows the eV charging between ~9 and 4pm at about 2.5kW for a total of 17.5kWh (ie almost double my average) I had to manually set that power level
The gap between the blue and purple line shows a second larger AC in use in the family room for about 3.5 hours
Attachment 532784

There are apps that link between PV systems car chargers to maximise solar EV charging. My system is currently not compatible with my charger although it is apparently under development. :)

It takes some getting used to but given the cost difference between solar charging and mains charging is a whopping 3c/km Im not phased when the EV draws from the grid.

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Originally Posted by BobL

It takes some getting used to but given the cost difference between solar charging and mains charging is a whopping 3c/km Im not phased when the EV draws from the grid.

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Veering slightly away from the electrickery industry, the last time I calculated the cost of running an EV the accepted norm was 0.2kWh/km. For us that means that at off peak rates it would cost about 8c/km to run an EV (if we had no solar!). That compares to around 11c/km for a hybrid Rav4 at present fuel prices.

As I have little doubt that our next "family" car will be electric, can I ask (Bob) if the 3c/km price is down to far cheaper power prices than our 40-odd cent off peak (55c peak!) rate, or have EV's improved beyond the previously accepted 0.2kWh/km average?

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Originally Posted by Warb

Veering slightly away from the electrickery industry, the last time I calculated the cost of running an EV the accepted norm was 0.2kWh/km. For us that means that at off peak rates it would cost about 8c/km to run an EV (if we had no solar!). That compares to around 11c/km for a hybrid Rav4 at present fuel prices.

As I have little doubt that our next "family" car will be electric, can I ask (Bob) if the 3c/km price is down to far cheaper power prices than our 40-odd cent off peak (55c peak!) rate, or have EV's improved beyond the previously accepted 0.2kWh/km average?

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0.2kWh/km is about average across a range of EVs ,but it varies widely and most of the published figures are significantly underestimated and an immediate discount of at least 10% is required..
At the recent Perth EV show I was disappointed in how inefficient almost all the new vehicles were.
Of those on display with only the Mini Cooper and the small BYD were significantly sub 200. Some of the larger EVs were 250+.

Teslas are by amongst the most efficient EVs. My "dual motor" high performance Tesla Model Y (525HP on tap) gets a real world 165 Whr/km and if I go easy on the accelerator I can get ~150 Whr/km. A single motor Model 3 Tesla (their most efficient vehicle) driven relatively conservatively can get 140 Whr/km. I bet if my wife was still here she could get this on my EV.

Im paying 31c at all times but can get it much cheaper off if I go for a peak off peak rate

The Smart Home Plan is 16 to 58c

There's an EV scheme that offers 8c in the early am, and 22-50 otherwise. My BIL (Tesla single motor Model 3) uses this and says his weekly commute costs (was a full tank of fuel) is something he just doesn't think about any more.

All this is courtesy of guaranteed/reserved price gas the WA government established about 15 years ago.

Buy back is 10c between 3 and 9pm, and 2c at other times - ie might as well use it !

Interesting online ABC article posted this morning Community pushback against renewable energy projects could see Australia miss its emissions targets and climate goals - ABC News
the gist seems to be, the proposed developer of the overhead power line, AusNet, will construct the line in a way that the height of farming machinery used under the line will be restricted to a maximum of 3.0m.

while the story is couched in terms of being a roadblock to Australia's renewable push, it strikes me that increasing the height of the pylons would lift the line further off the ground allowing taller machinery to be used under the lines.

It also strikes me that undergrounding the lines -- as many farmers seem to prefer -- would be worse, as underground lines would prevent the area occupied by the lines being farmed by tilling.

I'm envisioning that to be cost effective, lines installed underground would require something the size of a D12, or even bigger, dozer fitted with a ripping hook. Lines installed by ripping a trench would sterilise even more farmland than installing overhead lines with an "electrical safe" clearance of (say) 5 metres. Ripping is how rural fibre optic cables were installed from the 1980s.

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Originally Posted by ian

....construct the line in a way that the height of farming machinery used under the line will be restricted to a maximum of 3.0m.

while the story is couched in terms of being a roadblock to Australia's renewable push, it strikes me that increasing the height of the pylons would lift the line further off the ground allowing taller machinery to be used under the lines.

It also strikes me that undergrounding the lines -- as many farmers seem to prefer -- would be worse, as underground lines would prevent the area occupied by the lines being farmed by tilling.

I'm envisioning that to be cost effective, lines installed underground would require something the size of a D12, or even bigger, dozer fitted with a ripping hook. Lines installed by ripping a trench would sterilise even more farmland than installing overhead lines with an "electrical safe" clearance of (say) 5 metres. Ripping is how rural fibre optic cables were installed from the 1980s.

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3m is a ridiculously low cable, even the smallest "real" agricultural machinery wouldn't go underneath! My 100hp John Deere was 2.5m tall, and larger headers can be up towards 5m. On hilly grazing land, where no big machinery goes, 3m might be OK (folded up spray rigs are the only thing that might cause a problem), but in such areas the cables are normally taken from hill to hill so "height" is relative!

Buried cables are much easier for farmers. Other than deep tillage, which rarely goes below perhaps 50cm and mostly much less (20-30cm), a >600m bury depth won't trouble many farmers. Unfortunately burying power cables is expensive!

Regarding buried fibre, my farm had the main fibre that served Central West NSW running under it, and the "new" fibre they put it perhaps 10 years ago running parallel. When they originally put in the old fibre, they didn't fit a metal trace and instead used transponders at strategic points with straight lines in between. Unfortunately (though predictably) the transponders failed over time, and now many don't work. The result is that they have no idea of the exact path of the fibre. On my farm they could find it on one side of the valley, and halfway up the hill on the other side, but across the valley floor it was largely guess-work! It caused them much stress when they tried to run the new fibre parallel to something they didn't know the location of! The new fibres have a metal tracer installed with them, so it can be tracked exactly.

As a farmer, there is no compensation for an underground cable being installed. On an ongoing basis that's perfectly OK, because there is also no impact. However at the time of installation, any livestock has to be removed for the duration of the work, crops are destroyed, pipework etc. is unusable until repaired/replaced (and afterwards there are joints that can leak). They tell you that they will repair fences, but they simply cut and then stretch the fences and rejoin the wires, meaning they are now over tensioned. With the eye watering cost of rural fencing, it is painful to see the shock absorbing corrugations of your new fence being pulled straight by a contractor over-straining the wires and bunging in a Gripple. If you fight you can get compensation for crop damage, but it's a struggle (though to be fair, some "farmers" don't help the cause by claiming that what was in reality worthless "un-improved pasture" was, for compensation purposes, race-horse quality lucerne).

There can also be issues with weeds, as seeds picked up on one property are transported down the line by vehicles, tools and boots.

So the problems for both underground and overhead cables are all very real, especially when the work is done by people who don't care and are working to the smallest budget possible.

A couple of "industry insights" (I work in fibre optic systems and power networks).....

First, the 3m doesn't mean the height of the overhead cable off the ground. HV conductors have a minimum "safe approach distance", which varies with voltage (e.g. 132kV, 330kV, etc.). I don't have my Ausgrid or TransGrid network rules books handy, but they would have allowed possibly a further 6m or more above the 3m max. machine height that was mentioned, so conductor would actually be at 9m minimum. Second, you don't just plough in HV underground cables. Most underground installs are in duct (grouped together in a trefoil for the three phases), typical drum lengths for the larger cables rarely exceed 700m, so that means a joint bay every 500-700m for the sections to be joined together. Longer routes would be trenched with the cable laid into a sand bedding. The backfill into the trench has to be of a known thermal resistance, usually a mix of sand/cement, or in metro areas the ducts carrying the cables are embedded in a soft concrete mix (FTB - Flowable Thermal Backfill) which has a uniform and known thermal resistance to ensure max conductor temperature of the cables isn't exceeded under design load. I work with fibre optic systems strung up the middle the the conductor trefoil to sense temperature, from which we can calculate the conductor temperature in the cable. This must not exceed 90C under full load or extended service.
I worked at Optus while they were building their initial fibre network around Australia, most of it ploughed in behind a D9. Since they are non-metallic, the fibre cables have a warning tape containing a fine wire installed above them, plus transponders, but both can prove very elusive when looking for the stuff. It doesn't help that the as-built drawings from Leightons (the contractor) were often a work of fiction. Regarding contaminated soil, I do remember one spectacular case that spent years going through the courts - Leighton brought in some topsoil from elsewhere for remediation works across a farmer's paddock, dressed it all nicely, and went on their way. A few months later a broad purple stripe appeared across the paddock following the trench line; the imported soil was contaminated with seeds of Pattersons Curse. Ooops.

There you go - for TransGrid (NSW):

Attachment 532866

They would be working from the Mobile Plant guidelines in this case, and restrictions also depend on whether an observer is available (and other measures) to control the hazard. 330kV overhead lines = 6m (my memory may not be shot after all).

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

There you go - for TransGrid (NSW):

Attachment 532866

They would be working from the Mobile Plant guidelines in this case, and restrictions also depend on whether an observer is available (and other measures) to control the hazard. 330kV overhead lines = 6m (my memory may not be shot after all).

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Thanks Mr.B


I have pointed out in the past that some idea of voltage can be gleaned from the distance the three phases are apart. Similar clearances apply downwards and this must be to the top of the tallest machinery. I hadn't realised there was a two tier system for machinery.

When I first did my training, quite a while back last century :rolleyes:, we were told of a farmer who complained that he was getting electrical shocks from the overhead transmission lines. When it was investigated, it turned out that he had bought a new state-of-the-art tractor that was large enough with the air-conditioned cab to come inside the safety clearances and he was experiencing electric shock from induced voltage. It may have been safe while he was still in the tractor, but not so good if he decided to exit while under the lines.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

...... they would have allowed possibly a further 6m or more above the 3m max. machine height that was mentioned

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3m is still totally insufficient for modern agricultural machines. As I said, my "little" 100hp John Deere was 2.5m tall, before adding the various antenna and warning beacons on the roof or lifting the bucket on the loader. My friends Steiger is basically 4m to the top of the cab..

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

I worked at Optus while they were building their initial fibre network around Australia, most of it ploughed in behind a D9. Since they are non-metallic, the fibre cables have a warning tape containing a fine wire installed above them, plus transponders, but both can prove very elusive when looking for the stuff.

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When the Telstra guy came out to locate the fibre across my front three paddocks when we were modifying the irrigation pipework, he stated that no copper trace was laid with their original fibres. Of course, as he worked for Telstra his info may have been incorrect! However when the guys came to install the new fibre they also had massive problems finding the old one!

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

A few months later a broad purple stripe appeared across the paddock following the trench line; the imported soil was contaminated with seeds of Pattersons Curse. Ooops.

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They really never think about the consequences of their actions. One lot decided they were fed up with weeds around their installation (I suspect it was telecoms) so they bucketed out a pelletised long-life residual herbicide. When it rained it washed down the hill into a vineyard, killed acres of grapes and olive trees and left the ground unusable. Cost a fortune in compensation.

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Thanks Mr.B


I have pointed out in the past that some idea of voltage can be gleaned from the distance the three phases are apart. Similar clearances apply downwards and this must be to the top of the tallest machinery. I hadn't realised there was a two tier system for machinery.

When I first did my training, quite a while back last century :rolleyes:, we were told of a farmer who complained that he was getting electrical shocks from the overhead transmission lines. When it was investigated, it turned out that he had bought a new state-of-the-art tractor that was large enough with the air-conditioned cab to come inside the safety clearances and he was experiencing electric shock from induced voltage. It may have been safe while he was still in the tractor, but not so good if he decided to exit while under the lines.

Regards
Paul

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Good point re. phase spacing. The rules around entry to substations where you may be working around overhead conductors now comprise a training manual about an inch thick. I had to renew the certification every year, for each utility I did work for. The rules just got stricter and stricter every year, including compulsory arc-flash rated clothing for everyone working anywhere on their network, just because one guy somewhere was burned in a flashover accident. The arc-flash rated clothing is so heavy and hot, it was more likely to cause deaths from heat stroke in summer than anything else. A lot of things you don't regard as conducting can become so at very high voltages - e.g. when working with 6m lengths of plastic conduit anywhere near high voltage conductors you had to keep them completely below waist height at all times, with an observer keeping an eye on you as well. Scary times.

I used to train Optus staff in using the cable locater to find the tracer tape on fibre optic cables - that was always entertaining. As for damage to property, it was well known that Leightons needed to have a guy with a cheque book following closely behind their work crews to placate the locals. Between wrecking gates, cutting fences, hitting existing services, and chewing up paddocks......there were plenty of cheques to be written. I can still picture that paddock with the Pattersons Curse sown into it by the contractors - absolutely spectacular - and that stuff is a devil to get rid of completely once it has been introduced. Seed can lie dormant for some time, then one year you've got purple again everywhere.

The NSW electricity system has slightly different rules to QLD. When I worked in the NSW system at Liddell, a dim and distant memory which time has almost healed, we had to go into the switchyards and "prove dead" on the 330KV lines we were isolating. This was done with a shepherd's hook mounted on a voltage detector. Under this contraption was an extension of varnished timber sticks each about 1 meter long. For 330KV it required four extensions above the handle. Firstly, we tested the device on a live line to make sure it was working by touching the hook onto the line (a red light lit up) and then we checked the disconnected line. Then it was back to the live line to check the integrity of the meter again. Finally, the hook was hung on the dead line to remind us which one to isolate. Isolating a live line, as I don't have to tell you, is a very bad mistake!

Up in QLD I don't have to do those tasks and I don't miss them at all.

Regards
Paul

Eeeek - rather you than me. Even the buzzing and crackling from 330kV conductors and insulators on a humid foggy morning was pretty disconcerting. There were some older Ausgrid low voltage switchyards in Sydney that were so ancient they didn't conform to modern clearance standards, and were basically regarded as complete "no go" areas. Live conductors literally 2 feet above your head. They took us all to see one of these during training one year, but it was strictly a case of just looking at it from outside the compound fence.

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

Eeeek - rather you than me. Even the buzzing and crackling from 330kV conductors and insulators on a humid foggy morning was pretty disconcerting. There were some older Ausgrid low voltage switchyards in Sydney that were so ancient they didn't conform to modern clearance standards, and were basically regarded as complete "no go" areas. Live conductors literally 2 feet above your head. They took us all to see one of these during training one year, but it was strictly a case of just looking at it from outside the compound fence.

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Mr.B

Actually, a dewy or misty morning with the conductors protesting with their crackles was usually deemed sufficient to not perform any switching let alone "proving dead.". I think the clearances, since the time to which I am referring, have probably increased from 4 meters. I can only remember having to do this once or twice. As you can see, I lived to tell the tale.

Regards
Paul

Reminds me of some advice given by our Electrical Engineering lecturer at Uni... "If you can't see it on an oscilloscope it doesn't exist, and if it's over 12V keep your hands in your pockets" - correct at the time (in terms of frequency and voltage) for those of us doing the light current/digital stream anyway. I think out of a class of 30 only 2 chose the heavy current/motors and machines option, but I bet they were never out of work after graduation ! I rapidly left the electrical stuff behind, got into fibre optics for an M.Sc. by research, and have basically been a "Photonic Engineer" for most of the past 35 years.

Victoria is putting in a 600MWh battery to be operational by 2025 at a cost of $245m:
‘One of the world’s largest’: battery farm to be the first project funded by Victoria’s resurrected electricity agency | Energy | The Guardian

So, if the following holds true:
(say) 18 months construction time for the battery
Comes in on budget at $245m
Snowy Hydro 2.0 costs $15b:rotfl:
SH 2.0 is completed by 2030 :rotfl:

then the Feds could put in 61 of those batteries which would supply 36,600MW spread out over 61 locations.
Obviously they couldn't all be completed in the next 18 months, and I'm sure that budgeting for SH 2.0 will be spread out over however many years.

How much power is SH 2.0 supposed to deliver? I'm reading 2,200MW, but someone might want to check my figures.
If my figures are right then those batteries (which don't get bogged inside a mountain) would supply 16.6x the power of SH 2.0 for the same money, and be completed in significantly less time, with the added benefit of being placed around the country.

Am I missing something here?

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Am I missing something here?

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Possibly a large amount of waste battery product to be disposed of safely when the big battery reaches end of life?

Batteries are able to supply that power for several hours but SH 2 will for several days.

Quoting figures of MW instead of MWH in the context of a battery is the sort of thing polys do when they make pre-election promises, and we all know what that is worth.

Plus, pollies would prefer one BIG project to go stand in front of for photo opportunities a la Scotty from Marketing, rather than have to travel around to multiple smaller (and frankly, not as visually exciting) projects around the country. There would also be significant costs involved in transporting all those extra people who have to stand in shot behind the chief polly and nod their heads knowingly in response to every inane utterance. As an aside, I speculate that there may be a position in political circles referred to internally as a "nodder"? Happens all too often on the TV news. :D

Sorry, I've come over all cynical all of a sudden. I'll have to go lie down for a bit.

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Originally Posted by Bohdan

is the sort of thing polys do when they make pre-election promises, and we all know what that is worth.

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Hey - where's my Very Fast Train??? And my personal jetpack, come to that????

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

As an aside, I speculate that there may be a position in political circles referred to internally as a "nodder"? Happens all too often on the TV news. :D

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I seem to recall that "noddies" were first identified in the background of some of Bob Hawke's speeches.

Who do they think they're kidding? Surely most people have noticed this by now? Can't front the cameras without at least 2-3 noddies in support....lol

FWIW The Tesla CyberTruck has been officially released in the US (although no right hand drive models currently available)
So far only several hundred are available for delivery compared to the millions that have been ordered.
The release means we can finally see official pricing and specs.

There are 3 models
Single Motor Rear wheel drive US$50k
Dual motor All wheel drive US$69k
Trimotor CyberBeast US$96k (0-60 mph 2.6s)

For homeowners, tradies and campers the auxiliary 240V power output specs are of interest.
Up to 11.5kW of continuous 240V power will be available from the battery for use from sockets inside the cabin and at the rear of the cargo tray.
Attachment 532942
For more details look here https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
Unfortunately right hand drive models not expected until 2025.

A "paper launch" if ever there was one Tesla Isn’t Currently Taking Cybertruck Orders at All

I'll be watching with interest.

This makes interesting reading too: The Tesla Cybertruck Still Looks Like Crap, Even In Matte Black

The first link is already outdated.
Re: Second link, I happened to agree with - my preference would be white, which is available as a wrap for only US$6500 :oo:

This is worth a look but make sure you watch it to the end.
https://youtu.be/Hf2H_jev2OY?si=gjvcO1hziHjOt1OP

Bob

Love him or hate him, you have to say he absolutely has a knack for the dramatic!

I recently became aware of just how many variations there are of the 911, which was first introduced way back in the sixties (Actually 1964), and I doubt he chose one of the rocket ships, but still hugely impressive and a big kick in the proverbials for those knocking the towing capability of EVs. The range while towing would be a separate issue.

The least powerful Porsche I could find currently offered in Oz developed 283KWs.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by BobL

FWIW The Tesla CyberTruck has been officially released in the US (although no right hand drive models currently available)
So far only several hundred are available for delivery compared to the millions that have been ordered.

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Originally Posted by BobL

This is worth a look but make sure you watch it to the end.
https://youtu.be/Hf2H_jev2OY?si=gjvcO1hziHjOt1OP

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Once again I am concerned about the future of the human race.

Millions of Americans have ordered an ugly car that can tow a porsche faster than the Porsche can drive. For what logical purpose?

So it can tow. Great. How fast is it gobbling up the basttery charge while it is doing that? Is it the same configuration that the ones on the street will be using?

Most ICE cars that can drag offf a Porsche over the standing quarter mile aren't street legal so maybe this one has been "tricked up" and is not the same as the general release vehicles will be.

I have a very bad mind picture of millions of supercharged, overweight battery packs on wheels being driven dangerously by millions of idiot drivers and the affect that will have on the general population. :C :o :no:

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Originally Posted by Bohdan

Batteries are able to supply that power for several hours but SH 2 will for several days.

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Both systems rely on using power created at cheap times to get re-energised: batteries have to be recharged (hopefully by a solar array), and the hydro water has to be sent back up the hill (presumably by what ever power is available, solar or coal powered).

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Originally Posted by Bohdan

Quoting figures of MW instead of MWH in the context of a battery is the sort of thing polys do when they make pre-election promises, and we all know what that is worth.

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MW was the only measure I could find reasonably easily.

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Originally Posted by doug3030

Once again I am concerned about the future of the human race.

Millions of Americans have ordered an ugly car that can tow a porsche faster than the Porsche can drive. For what logical purpose?

So it can tow. Great. How fast is it gobbling up the basttery charge while it is doing that? Is it the same configuration that the ones on the street will be using?

Most ICE cars that can drag offf a Porsche over the standing quarter mile aren't street legal so maybe this one has been "tricked up" and is not the same as the general release vehicles will be.

I have a very bad mind picture of millions of supercharged, overweight battery packs on wheels being driven dangerously by millions of idiot drivers and the affect that will have on the general population. :C :o :no:

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FF

I think people have been buying cars that are overly fast for a long time. frequently people do not buy a vehicle that is suitable for their purpose just because they want one. Nobody really needs a vehicle that is capable of more than, say, 120KM/hr, particularly if people wish to keep their license. Manufacturers would probably be unable to sell a vehicle like that as it would be automotive suicide. With cars, rationality tends to go out the door.

The power of Porsche models varies quite a bit and, as I said, I expect the one in the test (and on the trailer) was likely lower down what is admittedly quite an elevated spectrum.

As to the tweaking, that used to be quite rife. The Jaguar E-Type was the classic. The test car did a genuine 150mph as tested by both Motor and Autocar. No 6-cyl E-Type out of the showroom ever did that again, but it set up the E-Type for evermore. I remember a convertible version (it may have been auto as well) only struggled to manage 117mph! The Jaguar test prep team was very, very naughty boys.


Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I think people have been buying cars that are overly fast for a long time. frequently people do not buy a vehicle that is suitable for their purpose just because they want one. Nobody really needs a vehicle that is capable of more than, say, 120KM/hr, particularly if people wish to keep their license. Manufacturers would probably be unable to sell a vehicle like that as it would be automotive suicide. With cars, rationality tends to go out the door.

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Just cars? Do they need a $20million waterfront home for them and their wife, or to spend $1000 on lunch for two at the latest flash restaurant?

People show off. I suspect it's an evolutionary trait - demonstrate your superiority to get a good mate and perpetuate your genes. It's completely subconscious most of the time, and it's what enabled social media to take over our lives - why else would people post pictures of their plate of food in a restaurant, or their holiday abroad?

It must also be said that top speed is largely irrelevant in the real world. I have a collection of old Land Rovers which are very slow in all respects, and a diesel ute which isn't much faster. I also have a "hot hatch", and I have no idea what its top speed is, but it rarely gets above 100kph (110kph on the freeway). I just enjoy being able to overtake "efficiently".....

Warb

Agreed. The human race sees possessions as an extension of their personality and a measure of their worth. In my case I drive around in a frequently overladen 18 year old ute. :( Actually, in this regard, we mimic other, supposedly, lesser animals.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Warb

Just cars? Do they need a $20million waterfront home for them and their wife, or to spend $1000 on lunch for two at the latest flash restaurant?

People show off. I suspect it's an evolutionary trait - demonstrate your superiority to get a good mate and perpetuate your genes. It's completely subconscious most of the time, and it's what enabled social media to take over our lives - why else would people post pictures of their plate of food in a restaurant, or their holiday abroad?

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Attachment 532975

Is there any difference between someone that can afford it who buys a $100k car or someone that spends $10k on machinery and goodies for their workshop just to make a couple of pieces of ordinary furniture or a few boxes? Anyway the Cybertruck is not really designed to compete with average mum and dad sedan but higher end tradie utes which are in the $75-$90k range.

However, the main reason I brought up the cybertruck was mainly in relation to this thread ie to show progress with the EV battery to home supply connections. How this pans out in reality remains to be seen. I'm not 100% sure how this works but apparently the cybertruck is plug and play with most Tesla home batteries. When a cybertruck EV battery is connected to a house with Tesla Battery the house simply sees itself as having a larger battery and no additional requirements or approvals are needed. Other systems/batteries will require adaptive hardware/software which Tesla will supposedly eventually sell and is very likely to need approvals.

While it may seem superfluous to have a home battery and an Ev battery to Home connection, some form of home battery still makes sense in that it simplifies setups and possibly reduces approvals. A home battery will also store sunlight when the EV is not at home.

Setups without a home battery that require approval remain problematic. If and when the cybertruck makes it to Australia I imagine any approvals process will take a long time.

Ok. so, this is not really a practical proposition for Australia, because it is more for direct heating than electricity production. Generally, more heat is the last thing we need. I have included it as at just after the 2 min mark in the video it does explain the temperature aspects . I have to say I have always been fairly skeptical of the practicalities of geothermal as I see pipework 4km down as a potential disaster waiting for a bad time to happen.

Geothermal Can TRANSFORM Dirty Coal Mines into Clean Energy Hotbeds! | Watch (msn.com)

Regards
Paul

Currently we seem to be focused on Solar and Wind when talking renewables with just a dash of Hydro thrown into the mix, primarily to create a little controversy (Snowy 2.0). I mentioned geothermal in the previous post. this one is about Wave power.

When we talk of power for free, it is not of course free. We really are discussing the cost of conversion to electricity. The waves are there day in and day out, BUT and as Matt Ferrell says, "there's always a catch."

He describes the Chinese project as massive. I calculate his figures equate to a 1MW station on a 24 hour basis. If you were using this type of power to replace Liddell, for example, even in it's diminished state down from 2000MW to 900MW at the time of closure, you would need 900 of these to replace it.

How Wave Power Could Be The Future Of Energy | Watch (msn.com)

Regards
Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Brush

This makes interesting reading too: The Tesla Cybertruck Still Looks Like Crap, Even In Matte Black

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In the pictures it actually looks like a low sheen black rather than a matt black. Not quite accurate reporting by their propaganda department.

But where does one get black stainless steel, irrespective of gloss level? Alternatively, how well does their paint stick to stainless steel?

Attachment 533093 Source: Mr Brush Reference

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

The least powerful Porsche I could find currently offered in Oz developed 283KWs.

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The GT3 RS reviewed by Steven Corby in the Weekend Autralian developed 385 kW - that is approximately 515 HP.