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The tracking app is in your mobile phone. If you want to meet up with mates then leave your phone at home. Unless they want to make mobile phone ownership and carriage compulsory its all a bit meaningless because people will easily beat the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
I just realised the government is smarter than we give them credit for. It's an obvious thing to leave the phone at home. Unbelievably obvious! Even the people that go to the beach when they are not supposed to could figure that one out. So all they have to do is willingly go without Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok etc etc for a few hours. Lol, the government is sneaky clever :DQuote:
Originally Posted by doug3030
Rudd vs. Trump
Three words come to mind... pot, kettle, black
I have checked my carrier pigeon and it does not appear to have blue tooth capability. Actually I couldn't find a tooth of any colour.Quote:
Originally Posted by doug3030
As you have pointed out, if you are truly troubled by the governments ability to know your every move, leave your phone at home: Easy to do unless you subscribe to the clique that would rather have a body part removed than relinquish their mobile phone .
Shouldn't be a problem for SWMBO as half the time, primarily when it is important, she doesn't have her phone with her and the other half of the time the battery is flat. All in all the most immobile and ineffective communication device I know of. :(
Regards
Paul
I wonder how many Democrats actually voted for Trump after the best candidate their own party could offer up was Hillary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
If it's compulsory there'll be no right to exit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
At face value, it's a good idea, but I just can't trust a Govt not to abuse the situation at a later stage. It has absolutely nothing to do with criminal activity - that's a very tired old argument, sometimes used for cheap shots. It is everything to do with the Govt knowing more about me/us than they need to or should. It is also the thin edge of the wedge for a potential shocking abuse of power.
What we have to remember about the Minister for Home Affairs is that he is nowhere near as intelligent as he looks. Ask Turnbull. (thanks to Glider for the description, btw). What's to stop them making it the Health Minister's responsibility for the moment, and then transferring it to the Minister for Home Affairs? I mean, really, he thought he was electable as a Prime Minister, such was his grip on reality, and view of himself. That was another bullet we dodged.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
Neil, that really does deserve a Tccp123 response. HAR HAR HAR!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
Sure we can leave our phones at home or off, but that starts to become far less convenient pretty quickly.
Now if it was the New Zealand Govt proposing such an idea.....I think I'd maybe view it differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
leaving your home for other than what is, by the POLICE, deemed to be "necessary" reason has already been defined as a presumed CRIMINAL act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
According to what my son sees on social media, and what the ABC News reports, Waverley with lots of Covid-19 cases has lower rates of Covid-19 enforcement than St Marys where the number of Covid-19 cases is low (to non-existant?) has much higher levels of enforcement.
see aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
You know of course that your Tax File Number is already an "Australia Card" on steroids?Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Open a bank account -- quote your TFN or pay a penalty in the form of with holding tax
take out a credit card -- quote your TFN
buy shares in a company -- quote your TFN
apply for a passport -- 3 pieces of ID
buy a mobile phone -- 3 pieces of ID
etc
about the only transaction that doesn't require 3 pieces of personal ID is to become a company director. Go figure.
BTW
all those point to point speed cameras are also tracking and speed checking all vehicles -- it's just that fines are not (yet?) being issued to vehicles other than trucks.
So what happened to "Play the issue and not the man"?Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
IN CASE ANYONE IS CONFUSED
The Rules:
1. Basically, you can't leave the house for any reason, but if you have to, then you can.
2. Masks are useless, but maybe you have to wear one, it can save you, it is useless, but maybe it is mandatory as well.
3. Stores are closed, except those that are open.
4. You should not go to hospital unless you have to go there. Same applies to the doctors, you should only go there in case of emergency, provided you are not too sick.
5. This virus is deadly but still not too scary, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster.
6. Gloves won't help, but they can still help.
7. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarket, but there are many things missing when you go there in the evening, but not in the morning. Sometimes.
8, The virus has no effect on children except those it affects.
9, Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
10. You will have many symptoms when you are sick, but you can also get sick without symptoms, have symptoms without being sick, or be contagious without having symptoms. Oh, good grief!
11. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house, which may have been prepared by people who didn't wear masks or gloves. But you have to have your groceries decontaminated outside for 3 hours. Pizza too?
12. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours, no four - or maybe that was days...
13. The virus stays in the air - well no, or yes, maybe, especially in a closed room, in one hour a sick person can infect ten, so if it falls, all our children were already infected at school before it was closed. But remember, if you stay at the recommended social distance, however in certain circumstances you should maintain a greater distance, which, studies show, the virus can travel further, maybe.
14. We count the number of deaths but we don't know how many people are infected as we have only tested so far those who were "almost dead" to find out if that's what they will die of…...
So there you have it, the rules to the lockdown, in a nutshell.
Hope it helps!!
Yeah I have got to say I am struggling with this whole rules caper.
We are told told to stay at home and get fined for sitting in the park and yet non essential service shops are legally open for business :doh:.
I can legally go to the shops and buy a TV, lounge or some pillowcases but I can’t stand on my own on the beach or go for a non stop drive in my car.
Yes of course, but I'd hardly categorise that as on steroids...those activities are a far cry from a situation where we can be traced to the nearest 10 metres (or whatever it is), and with whom we are interacting.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
I don't recall ever having to provide ID to buy a phone. Perhaps you mean for a SIM card (but I still haven't provided ID for that as I recall). My last phone was purchased from China, and they don't give a toss.
If the app was able to be deleted after the pandemic was finished that would be different and I'd be ok with helping, but I wonder if it will be like the ATO being made as a payee in bank accounts - can't be deleted.
As I understand it, the app uses Bluetooth. What is to stop BT being turned off, due to low battery power, if you catch my drift?
Good one Doug. :D
Actually what that summary does do is highlight that this is largely uncharted territory as far as this particular virus is concerned and confirms that the decision makers in the government are closely related to chooks (spp. "headless").
Interestingly, I have just spent nearly three days in two different hospitals. There were both at about half capacity. The primary reason for this is the cancellation of elective surgery, but the ER wards were also devoid of customers. Those people that flock to the ER for questionable reasons were no longer there either: Just the genuine emergencies.
Regards
Paul
They have been used for cars in Vic for years. There has been one a little west of here at Hartley for at least 3 years to the best of my memory, and I've driven through others in NSW. (I'm talking about for cars)Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
I'm not concerned if most people don't download the app, or defeat a phone tracking system by switching phones off or leaving phones at home but in practice it won't matter much. The Depts of Health people know a certain proportion of the population will do this but only need mobile phones to be active on about 40% of the population (actually it's less than this, eg Singapore with 20%, that but they won't be trumpeting this) to be of some value.
I'm still in two minds about the whole thing, less so about because of the privacy aspects and more so regarding authorities being too reliant on the app, eg cutting down on the number of trackers, and on the proportion of people loading the app to make lockdown changes to. ie not enough phones have taken this up so we're going to extend the lockdowns.
In the meantime I finally know someone who has had COVID19, a distant relative in his late 80's who lives in a retirement home in Milan. He only had a mild case and has recovered. Most of the residents in the retirement home came down with it and several died and he counts himself lucky.
Got my first request for info from a member of this group this morning. Team of blokes making/adapting compressors and ventilators for use in sub-Saharan Africa needing advice about air filtration.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
I also think the tracking app is a great idea. The part that puzzles me is that, in the light of bleeding obvious, why hasn't the government provided an iron clad guarantee that the app would be taken down when the current crisis ends. All I've heard and read is that the data will remain anonymous unless an infectious contact is indicated. At that point, the mac numbers are matched and the origin identified and contacted.
We now have a super department which controls the AFP and three of the four national security (read "spy") agencies which is quite a departure from the original guidelines established by Justice Robert Hope after the 1974 Royal Commission into the security services.
How many freedoms are we prepared to give up to organisations claiming to preserve our freedom? One of which, raided a journalist's home on the basis of an illegal warrant. Another allowed the Ruby Princess to unload its full complement of passengers.
mick
Perhaps because Dutton doesn't want it taken down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
AND they were allowed to keep the documents they seized illegally - how the bloody hell does THAT work? It's akin to "You have been found guilty of stealing the jewels, but you can keep them".Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
That information is already recorded for every mobile phone in the world. It's use is limited by the sheer volume of data that is available and a reluctance to admit that it is all there and useable. The relevant authorities can and do gain access to it if the matter is serious enough. I imagine that the app would be an aid to "sorting" the data to make it quicker to isolate the relevant bits for this purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
For those who consider their freedoms, remember that the government enacted extraordinary temporary powers to deal with terrorism...
19 years ago.....
I heard on the radio (Radio National) a few moments ago that Scomo has announced there are no plans to make the tracking app compulsory. Of course, that may be different to saying that it will not be made compulsory. :rolleyes: I suspect the ability to enforce it is impractical in any event.
Regards
Paul
... or Pezzullo.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
The power behind the throne also needs to be considered when voluntarily handing over our data.
Hmm... that may have just triggered a call up flag on my ASIO file...:doh:
Yes indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
It's just the usual classic hole to be used later if they do decide to make it compulsory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
Anyway, thanks for all the responses to that little sub-topic (not that I've seen all of them - not even tag-teaming will work these days)
Truth to tell, I'm not unhappy with their success rate catching extremists since then.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
I don't think they've latched onto my master plan to force the government to ban all power tools sold with different sized dust outlets, legislate to have all measuring devices produced in Hi-Viz colours and declaring all woodworking tools tax deductible for amateurs.
mick :)
p.s. I may be coming down with shed fever...
Updated at about 1:10 this arvo
Coronavirus app will not be forced upon Australians, Scott Morrison says - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Morrison: "The app we are working on to help our health workers trace people who have been in contact with coronavirus will not be mandatory," he said.
Pretty obvious they were watching this thread.
If Scothead(I just made that up ,clever?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
Made the app compulsory, they would then need to make carrying your mobile phone compulsory, that’s going to take a S.... load of policing I would think.
Cheers Matt
Possibly I just reinforced your comments Paul [emoji6]
I just checked on my MyGov and I don't appear to have one of those yet....Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
ATO, yep, Medicare, yep, Centrelink, yep... definitely no "ASIO".
Maybe they forgot to link it up?
:?
Tell you what I'm not happy about - the near fanatical attention and amounts of money spent on "homeland" security when they should have been directing some of that fanaticism and funds towards basic biosecurity. All this focus on stop the boats and they missing a whole plague ridden pleasure cruiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I reckon we were just lucky we are where we are. A bit more spent on things like medical research, preplanning, and increased purchasing/warehousing of PPE etc will hopefully be a useful outcome of all this.
I would be EXTREMELY surprised if you, as the Forum Conspiracist, did not have an inches thick file. They are just down the road from you.....Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
:D
Just think of all the seed Potatoes that Dutton could have bought.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
All of who are necessary to counteract the Trump mouthpiece - Fox News.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
Pete
Funny you should mention that. I literally am. The ASD has their "secret" facility there. Boy, that brings back some memories. So many dodged bullets. :BQuote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Google maps says I can even catch a bus! Nice :)
Attachment 471950
Neither funny nor curious...they told me.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
The They. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Attachment 471952
why are they counteracting the Trump mouthpiece? Why not just report the news? Sounds like a bunch of muppets. Perhaps some incorrect assumptions have been made by others, my saying that Trump doesn't cave in to the muppets of the left media doesn't mean the right media isn't full of muppets. Of course it bloody is! It's all a bunch of click bait crap. People burn in bushfires, the press smiles. Pandemic spreads, the press smiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodhutt
Not original: Their budget is in inverse proportion to the target boat size. Large budget:Small boat size (preferably under 30m*). They would need to reverse their binoculars to be able to see a cruise ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
* Calculation based on the average number of arrivals on each boat (approx 47) between 1976 and 2014. Source.
Kuffy, you might do well to read the New York Times for some of the most accurate and informed news on American affairs. Probably one of the most prestigious newspapers in the world. They publish opinion pieces from both sides of the camp.
I don't favour any particular publication or broadcast. I read and listen to many from both sides. I guess it is kind of like being a judge in the courtroom. I couldn't just listen to the prosecution and make a decision based on that information alone. I have to listen to the defendant also, and then make my own decision as to which sounds more plausible. I reckon it is about as good as we can do. I get only bad from CNN regarding Trump, and only good from Fox regarding trump. The bad plus the good = the whole story I hope.
Not if the good (or the bad) is false and propagandist, to serve the best interests of the media owner. The function of the Fourth Estate is to report facts. Further analysis and opinion pieces should be based on the facts too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
Ah yes. ASD, or DSD as it was known when I spent a few years working there and in some of the other nearby buildings.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Interesting times. :rolleyes: