there is no hope for the young poeple

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

What have you been smoking, Arty? :D

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what are you casting nutation's :smokeing::clown:

























:D

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Now lets take the mobile phones and Internet off the adult why were at it lets get rid of running water and power most people will not cope .

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I'm not suggesting we take anything away from anyone. We all should benefit from the modern world. Running water, now there is a very good example. You turn on the tap and out it comes. Where does it come from? Nobody cares until they turn on the tap and nothing happens. Put people in a situation where they have to conserve their water supply so they come to value it and we might not need so many dams.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I'm not suggesting we take anything away from anyone. We all should benefit from the modern world. Running water, now there is a very good example. You turn on the tap and out it comes. Where does it come from? Nobody cares until they turn on the tap and nothing happens. Put people in a situation where they have to conserve their water supply so they come to value it and we might not need so many dams.

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so lets not be to quick to judge

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Originally Posted by SPIRIT

Hay Wood Borer your a teacher ? have you done the PD on generational poverty:?

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I don't quite understand:?

BTW I am not a teacher, it is not my profession by any means however I have taught in industry all over Australia and some other countries. I teach some courses locally particularly woodwork part time.

My time is mainly taken up with my woodwork (the shed is almost up and going).

My earlier point was that respect should not be demanded merely because you are old or have experienced something traumatic.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Running water, now there is a very good example. You turn on the tap and out it comes. Where does it come from?

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The Romans. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Ruddigar

The Romans. :cool:

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Funny but profound, and not at all inconsistent with what Silent says: we are the final product of all that came before us, and sometimes the consequences are unintended and unpleasant, while still in a context of overall improvement.

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Originally Posted by Ruddigar

The Romans. :cool:

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yes yes they gave us plumbing but what else have they given us

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Originally Posted by SPIRIT

yes yes they gave us plumbing but what else have they given us

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Roman Candles, Roman numerals..................

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Originally Posted by SPIRIT

yes yes they gave us plumbing but what else have they given us

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The Romans gave us plumbing ? on what planet was that ?

Planet Earth - Bath

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

Planet Earth - Bath

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History is a marvelous thing ,

Study it .:p
Ignoring the first two racist crud websites that crop up on this list ,
check out the rest .

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

I don't quite understand:?

BTW I am not a teacher, it is not my profession by any means however I have taught in industry all over Australia and some other countries. I teach some courses locally particularly woodwork part time.

My time is mainly taken up with my woodwork (the shed is almost up and going).

My earlier point was that respect should not be demanded merely because you are old or have experienced something traumatic.

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sorry got the wrong member :B
we seem to think the same on this matter

did anybody get the joke l did monkey boy

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Originally Posted by Manuka Jock

History is a marvelous thing ,

Study it .:p
Ignoring the first two racist crud websites that crop up on this list ,
check out the rest .

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I would respectfully suggest that you practise what you preach, MJ. Unfortunately, like with the mith of the two fingers at Agincourt and drawing this plumbing long bow :), you seem to be extremely dogmatic about the prayer book you decide to choose, however sound it might be. Your list includes not only racist crud but also whacko conspiracy theory type theories and plain marketing hype of plumbing sites.

According to your own sources, In Skara Brae the only "plumbing" to speak of were sinks or water tanks, made of stones sealed together with clay to prevent leaking. There were no actual conduits, unless you count gutter type trenches. The Minoan Palace of Crete had something more resembling a conduit made of clay and a hole where faeces could be collected and washed away, but for plumbing as we would recognise it you have to go forward to the Roman empire.

Sorry for feeding the hijack, folks.

PS. Just cottoned on the Roman Candles joke. Bit slow, but you did not put a :D after it, Big Shed...<!-- / message --><!-- DONKS ADDED -->

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

I would respectfully suggest that you practise what you preach, MJ. Unfortunately, like with the mith of the two fingers at Agincourt and drawing this plumbing long bow :), you seem to be extremely dogmatic about the prayer book you decide to choose, however sound it might be. Your list includes not only racist crud but also whacko conspiracy theory type theories and plain marketing hype of plumbing sites.

According to your own sources, In Skara Brae the only "plumbing" to speak of were sinks or water tanks, made of stones sealed together with clay to prevent leaking. There were no actual conduits, unless you count gutter type trenches. The Minoan Palace of Crete had something more resembling a conduit made of clay and a hole where faeces could be collected and washed away, but for plumbing as we would recognise it you have to go forward to the Roman empire.
<!-- / message --><!-- DONKS ADDED -->

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So in your wee world , plumbing is only plumbing if it has lead huh ?
Roman lead .
A water retention and drainage system is not plumbing ?
The fact that the infeed piping has not survived the intervening 5000 years does not not mean that it did not exist .




If you must introduce your pettiness from that other thread , do us all the honour of backing up your 'fantasy history' on that thread , with a link or two to a credible source , on that thread .

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

There is no minimum age for casual employees, as long as the work does not interfere with the employee’s schooling.

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True for NSW but they are not allowed to operate anything they are not covered as stated previously can't join unions etc. If they were then kids would be allowed to do more hands on work with machines and tools at school, especially in NSW.

No woodies club can take on any one under the age of 16 for insurance reasons just a further example of idiots. This is nation wide.:roll: This was brought about by well meaning organisations and people who decided kids should be alowed to be kids not exploited


When a teen I got to try out different jobs helping out no pay where I live building sites close by so I sat talking to workers and was allowed to help out brickies throwing bricks, roofers stacking tiles onto convayors and carpenters tote and carry hold lift etc all work experience pre leaving school.

Now you cant even enter the site :no::roll: for many reasons.

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Originally Posted by Manuka Jock

So in your wee world , plumbing is only plumbing if it has lead huh ?
Roman lead .
A water retention and drainage system is not plumbing ?
The fact that the infeed piping has not survived the intervening 5000 years does not not mean that it did not exist .




If you must introduce your pettiness from that other thread , do us all the honour of backing up your 'fantasy history' on that thread , with a link or two to a credible source , on that thread .

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An old boss of mine never said "you did not get it", he always said "we did not communicate". I will try to follow his example. I could not care less about lead in pipes or where the two finger salute came from, I only said, and I repeat, that being dogmatic without solid facts to back your dogma does not do you any favours. I am not backing up any "fantasy history" you are: just because somebody suggests the possibility of infeed pipes that did not survive, it does not mean that they existed. Also, again from your sources there is no shred of historical evidence that the other myth originated at Agincourt. Or anywhere else, for what matters.

As to who is being petty, I am happy to let the other readers decide. Which is the reason why I will not continue this discussion.

Keep it on topic people.

Any more deviations from Thread heading will see this thread closed

DJ
Administrator
Woodworking Australia's
WOODWORK FORUMS

Just to get back on topic :D (crawl, crawl)

Couple of things spring to mind...

One is the interesting phenomenon where it takes 3 generations for a business to fail. I studied this for a uni project years ago. It's more common than you would intuitively think. Put simply it starts with a bright spark (entrepreneur), who has a good idea and builds a business. The next generation that takes over the reins tends to run for stability rather than growth, trying to maintain the quality and status of the business, less interested in expansion and newer ideas. The 3rd generational management experiences a business failure. The general conclusion is that the first gen had nothing and built with nothing to lose, the second gen saw the benefits of the business while also seeing something of the hard growth, while the third gen only sees the benefits and doesn't value them. The other conclusion is that brilliance is not often genetically passed down.

Take a look around, there are examples of this everywhere.

What am I saying with this? I guess, sometimes the younger generation don't have the same starting point of the older, so judgements are often harsh.

Second thing that I remember is telling my mum about my first house purchase - I was 23 years old and had just bought a 3 beddie for $48k (sigh). I remember the look on my mum's face when she turned to her uncle and said something about this makes all those hard years worthwhile. She grew up in central Europe, childhood during the Second World War, went to England with husband and 3 small kids as refugees in mid-50's, emigrated to Aus with husband and 5 kids in early 70's, never owned a house, scrimped and saved to get a car (we've got 3 in the family) and a TV (we've got 5 (sigh)).

Do I work hard? Yes. Do I get things easier than mum did? Yes. Do I think my kids get it easier than me? Yes. Do I think they are without hope? Definitely not. They have a lot to learn in my eyes, but they are products of their environment, which includes my teaching and example.

What am I saying here? I think each generation gets it easier, but that's the nature of progress. Personally I'm glad I spent so much time down the creek or building a tree house rather than hours in front of a computer or game thingy, and I encourage my kids to do the same (not usually very successfully). Yes there are some stupid kids, but there are some stupid oldies as well.

Cheers,
Adam

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I think each generation gets it easier, but that's the nature of progress.

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Indeed and it's a good thing. We all work to try to make the world a better place for our kids (with mixed success).

I suppose if anything I'm just calling for a bit of perspective from kids. Just an acknowledgement that they've got a lot to be thankful for and perhaps a bit less of the whining when things don't go their way, maybe a bit more of an effort to do things for themselves.

It's OK to say that we create the problem by giving them the toys and so on but the flip side of that argument is that people should also take a bit of responsibility for their own lives. The trouble is we keep telling them that it's not their fault and that we've made them the way they are. We should stop doing that because it gives them a reason to be victims and takes away their responsibility for their actions.

It's a bit like another situation we have here in Australia with a particular group of people. The more we tell them it's all our fault, the more they look to the rest of society to solve their problems and the less responsibility they take for themselves. A very famous representative of that group said "it's time we stopped being victims and started taking responsibility for our own lives".

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Originally Posted by silentC

Indeed and it's a good thing. We all work to try to make the world a better place for our kids (with mixed success).

I suppose if anything I'm just calling for a bit of perspective from kids. Just an acknowledgement that they've got a lot to be thankful for and perhaps a bit less of the whining when things don't go their way, maybe a bit more of an effort to do things for themselves.

It's OK to say that we create the problem by giving them the toys and so on but the flip side of that argument is that people should also take a bit of responsibility for their own lives. The trouble is we keep telling them that it's not their fault and that we've made them the way they are. We should stop doing that because it gives them a reason to be victims and takes away their responsibility for their actions.

It's a bit like another situation we have here in Australia with a particular group of people. The more we tell them it's all our fault, the more they look to the rest of society to solve their problems and the less responsibility they take for themselves. A very famous representative of that group said "it's time we stopped being victims and started taking responsibility for our own lives".

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you make some good points
everybody no matter from where they are in life one thing they have full control of are the chooses they make ,yes, no stay ,go and so on and all of the chooses one makes will have a bearing on their life some small some large
If we teach this and people understand it the world may be a better place
sorry for the lack of grammar

this would be the biggest hijack thread we started with some poor kid at bunnings :D

Some time back I bought some stuff at the local Bunnies and the young mfellow was all at sea so I patiently explained a second time what I wanted and why and suggested we look at labels together because there is alot of information to be found on labels.He was most appreciative and as I left he was still going along the shelf reading labels.

Another time I was looking for some particular nuts, bolts and drills. The young bloke was new to the job( Bolts and Industrial, Evans Rd. ) and asked one of the older staff for help, It was given and was an abject lesson in mentoring.

A few years back I went to the Town where I had taught for many years and pulled into a service station to buy some petrol. The fellow serving me had not been a student at any of the schools I had taught in, but had been with a group of students I had taken for swimming lessons. I asked him if he remembered me and his reply was" Yes. You taught me to swim".

What`s the point of all this? Proper teaching and mentoring is effective and remembered. I hope enough bosses know this.

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Originally Posted by artme

" Yes. You taught me to swim".

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It must have made you walk pretty tall hearing that.

I have had a similar experience relating to technical training and it is amazing how you have influenced the lives of some people yet you do not recall them.

I was told a story of a bloke who died and left a lot of money to his old school. The staff at the school had to look up the old rolls to find out when he attended the school because he was just a quiet average student. He had never had learning difficulties or behavioural problems nor was he a dux or a school captain, prefect etc.

The school had provided him with an unforgettable education that had set him up for life but he was just another student as far as the school was concerned.

It is indeed a huge responsiblity teaching people because you are helping to shape their life in either a positive or negative manner even if it is not obvious at the time.