We Need To Make A Stand

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

2nd August 2007, 04:23 PM
Brown Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentC

Well, if evidence was proof, then all court cases would get a guilty verdict, would they not?

what does beyond reasonable doubt refer to then ?
Cases are decided on probability ie balance of evidence all the time.

The fact that a very, very large number of people believe in him.
Something makes them feel that way

Do you honestly consider belief in something to be evidence of existance...pa lease:rolleyes: . Extending that logic to my case " if i believe god doesnt exist therefore he musnt" case closed...sounds silly doesnt it

Does that mean Santa really did exist when I was a kid ? If so what happened to him.:D

There are documents saying that he exists.

In the case of texts documenting the life of Jesus. Natural history or evidence based history as shown that they are historically dubious

There are events which people say are evidence.
Again they believe... Scientifically miracles dont constitute evidence because they can also have a more probable natural explanation

Like I say, I am more in favour of the negative side.

If there is no evidence, then why are you not a 7?

But there is evidence...science is full of evidence...addmitedly science doesnt have all the answers yet , so i think it is more than resonable to delay my 100% conviction that there is no God
2nd August 2007, 04:24 PM
Brown Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Mac

A truly wonderous discussion is taking place here, and I'm starting to get the point...
This you say, is indeed god-like, therefore there is a God?

Ahhh..... but did he create the universe ? :D
2nd August 2007, 04:25 PM
Gra

Does that mean Santa really did exist when I was a kid ? If so what happened to him.:D

As per Douglas Adams, he disappeared in a puff of logic
2nd August 2007, 04:28 PM
silentC

Quote:

what does beyond reasonable doubt refer to then

It refers to the fact that, despite the evidence, there is enough doubt to find the defendent not guilty. If having evidence of something was proof, then there would be no need for reasonable doubt.

Quote:

But there is evidence...science is full of evidence...addmitedly science doesnt have all the answers yet , so i think it is more than resonable to delay my 100% conviction that there is no God

You just said there isn't. Do make up your mind.

Anyway, I'm not arguing whether there is a god or not, I'm arguing that to adopt an absolute position on something without proof one way or the other is illogical. That's all I said, all this other stuff is just side tracking.
2nd August 2007, 04:31 PM
Cliff Rogers

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentC

.... I'm not arguing whether there is a god or not, I'm arguing that to adopt an absolute position on something without proof one way or the other is illogical. .....

Is that an argument or a contradiction?
2nd August 2007, 05:06 PM
echnidna

yes
2nd August 2007, 05:14 PM
Grunt

No it's not.
2nd August 2007, 05:20 PM
Gra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunt

No it's not.

Oh yes it is

$5 for five more minutes
2nd August 2007, 05:20 PM
Brown Dog

Quote:

It refers to the fact that, despite the evidence, there is enough doubt to find the defendent not guilty. If having evidence of something was proof, then there would be no need for reasonable doubt.

I though "beyond resonable doubt" refered to a level of proof that must be met based on the balance of the evidence.

to try yo illustrate my logic.

if a court charges God with "Existing with intent to create the universe" it is up to the prosecution to provide evidence that he does exist beyond a resonable doubt. I think the defences case that he "doesnt exist" is more valid based on the balance of evidence. There for he would be found not guilty of "existing and creating the universe"

Quote:

You just said there isn't. Do make up your mind.

where did I say there is no evidence ? Maybe I didnt make myself clear...If I did Im sorry. So to make it clear I will sumarise

"I believe the probablity of the existence of a creationist god to be extremely low. I only conceed the very small possibilty there maybe a god because there there is no conclusive proof that he doesnt. How can one prove or disproove such a thing that is the nature of God. However I believe based on scientific evidence that we are here as a direct result of evolution. Evolution being the evidence I base my belief that it is most probable that there is no God."

Quote:

Anyway, I'm not arguing whether there is a god or not,

Yes you were I asked for evidence and you gave it. That constiutes at least a debate if not an argument:wink: . To support your position as an Agnostic you must argue the case for god as much as you argue the case against(that sounds illogical to me). But like me you appear to be on the Athiest side of the fence...just not as far :)

Quote:

I'm arguing that to adopt an absolute position on something without proof one way or the other is illogical.

Im saying you dont need proof....because such I thing I think can never be proven one way or the other. But evidence strongly sides with the case against.

cheers
BD:2tsup:

.
2nd August 2007, 05:21 PM
pedro the swift

Gentlemen and Ladies,
We seem to have strayed from the post subject somewhat, well, a great deal actually.
I will be making a stand!!!
I need to get some suitable pieces of timber to make a stand for a six foot fish tank.
2nd August 2007, 05:22 PM
Gra

If there is a creationalist God, Who created him?
2nd August 2007, 05:23 PM
Gra

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedro the swift

Gentlemen and Ladies,
We seem to have strayed from the post subject somewhat, well, a great deal actually.
I will be making a stand!!!
I need to get some suitable pieces of timber to make a stand for a six foot fish tank.

Will it contain babelfish?
2nd August 2007, 05:31 PM
Gingermick

Do you think this is what funky chicken had in mind? Was he just fishing for a really bloomin long thread?
Maybe he/she was only joking and fooled everyone:B
2nd August 2007, 05:34 PM
Wongo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gra

If there is a creationalist God, Who created him?

Moses?
2nd August 2007, 05:34 PM
Gra

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedro the swift

Gentlemen and Ladies,
We seem to have strayed from the post subject somewhat, well, a great deal actually.
I will be making a stand!!!
I need to get some suitable pieces of timber to make a stand for a six foot fish tank.

Maybe you can put yours next to wongos and have a pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingermick

Do you think this is what funky chicken had in mind? Was he just fishing for a really bloomin long thread?
Maybe he/she was only joking and fooled everyone:B

Whatever his intention I can pretty much guarantee he wasn't what happened here, you couldn't plan this
2nd August 2007, 05:44 PM
silentC

You said:

Quote:

I dispute that there is any evidence for God.

Then I said:

Quote:

If there is no evidence, then why are you not a 7?

Then you said:

Quote:

But there is evidence...

So, yes I am confused.

On the evidence thing, it's really very simple. Evidence consists of facts that may lead you to believe something to be true. It is not proof in and of itself. A fact might be that I found you with a knife in your hand that has the blood of a victim on it. This is evidence that you stabbed the victim but not proof. It goes to court, and the jury decides after all the evidence has been presented whether or not there is reasonable doubt that it was you who did it. Even that is not proof.

My point was that an atheist has no more proof of the non-existence of god than a theist has of his existence. You may have evidence that you consider satisfactory to your mind, but it is not proof. In fact, as has been pointed out, I don't think you can prove that god does not exist. So how can a logical thinking person rule it out? The best you can say is that it seems to you on the balance of probability that the existence of a god is unlikely. You cannot say he does not exist. Unless you are an atheist. And that is an illogical position. Not saying it's wrong, immoral, bad, stupid - just not logical.

Quote:

such I thing I think can never be proven one way or the other

Existence of god can be proven, like the existence of life on other planets. All he needs to do is to appear. That would prove it. You can't prove that he doesn't exist.
2nd August 2007, 05:49 PM
Brown Dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zed

I quite like Douglas Adams take on religion Ie the bit where he indicates that without faith god is nothing, and proof belies faith thus if you get proof it negates faith and removes the need for faith therefore god cant exist and thus vanishes in a puff of logic. or some such thing...

I love it. He must a spent some time navel contemplating over that one...

.

:D

Your are in esteemed company then Zed. Richard Dawkins,who makes a living from debunking religion, cause's theoligists to poop their pants when they have to debate him and has and has provided some of the arguments that I have no doubt butchered, blundering my way trying to make a point, loves to quote Douglas Adams

cheers
BD:2tsup:
2nd August 2007, 06:00 PM
Bleedin Thumb

I used to be a devout atheist but all this theological discussion is causing me to have doubts......................

I'm starting to question my beliefs.......

What...what if there really is a god?:C

No, no I must be strong...... mustn't have faith!
2nd August 2007, 06:13 PM
bitingmidge

I'm stunned that after all these pages and posts, no-one has yet responded to the agnostic dyslexic insomniac's quest.

He stays up all night wondering if there really is a Dog!

Where is Grunt when I need him?

P
:D
2nd August 2007, 06:25 PM
Brown Dog

You said:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">I dispute that there is any evidence for God. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Then I said:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">If there is no evidence, then why are you not a 7? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Then you said:

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER- 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">But there is evidence... </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

okay I did say that :D but what I was trying to say and when put into proper context was there is no evidence for God only against. Hope this dispells any confussion.

Quote:

It is not proof in and of itself

Quote:

On the evidence thing, it's really very simple. Evidence consists of facts that may lead you to believe something to be true. It is not proof in and of itself

I agree, that is why I said I have to conceed the very small possibility of a God.

Quote:

My point was that an atheist has no more proof of the non-existence of god than a theist has of his existence

My point was to stongly support a conclusion you only need more convincing evidence than the other side.

Quote:

You may have evidence that you consider satisfactory to your mind, but it is not proof.

never said it was

Quote:

So how can a logical thinking person rule it out? The best you can say is that it seems to you on the balance of probability that the existence of a god is unlikely. You cannot say he does not exist. Unless you are an atheist. And that is an illogical position.

I havent ruled it out. However only due to the fact that I cant prove non-exsitense. Proportionly I consider that fact to be irrelevent/insignificant when forming a phylosiphy on life.

Quote:

You cannot say he does not exist. Unless you are an atheist. And that is an illogical position.

that statement only deals with absolutes ie. absolute Theism, Agnostism and Atheism. I have already stated that I dont consider atheism to be absolute...there is a spectrum. But if you want to deal with absolutes, that must mean you equally believe in the existance of God and the non exsitance...to me, with available evidence that is illogical.

cheers
BD:2tsup:
2nd August 2007, 06:30 PM
namtrak

I think this thread has run it's course and should come to a closure with the following well balanced and considered sentiment.

There is no god, or spirits, or afterlife it is all nonsense - end of story. :rolleyes:
2nd August 2007, 06:33 PM
Gingermick

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentC

Existence of god can be proven,

The existence or otherwise of God is very easily proven. Just top yourself and then you will know. Of course the knowledge will be useless, particularly if god doesn't exist
2nd August 2007, 06:37 PM
Grunt

Quote:

Where is Grunt when I need him?

Right here Midgee.
2nd August 2007, 07:15 PM
Grunt

On Douglas Adams and God.

There are quite a number of good quotes from the HHGTTG Trilogy, (Yeah, I know there were 5 books).

Quote:

and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?

Quote:

I'm gonna pray, man! Know any good religions?

- Zaphod Beeblebrox, "Hitchikers Guide"

Quote:

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
2nd August 2007, 08:05 PM
Rocker

We have got a bit side-tracked here by people who want to be the first to score 10,000 posts on the Forum. This thread is not about the existence of God, but about FC's allegation that women are getting depressed, anorexic, and even suicidal, because, he says, the media tell us that pre-marital sex and abortion are OK. Surely, at least 50% of the people who engage in pre-marital sex, leaving aside, for the moment, people like Elton John and Martina Navratilova, are women; and 100% of those who have abortions are also women. So, if these women are doing what they want to do, and the media are re-assuring them that it is OK, why would they be depressed, anorexic, or suicidal? Could it be that FC disapproves of pre-marital sex and abortion, and wants women who engage in such activities to be as miserable as possible? He probably doesn't even approve of Elton getting married either; some people are very hard to please.

Rocker
2nd August 2007, 08:15 PM
Doctor Phil

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

He stays up all night wondering if there really is a Dog!

Well hello people, of course there is a Dog, and if you look real close like, and pay attention to the speeling, you will notice if you spell DOG backwards, you get GOD. :o

So to spell it out for all you fine folk, if you speel DOG backwards, you get GOD.

I hope you all learn something from this.
2nd August 2007, 08:44 PM
craigb

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet? :?
2nd August 2007, 08:55 PM
ozwinner

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigb

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet? :?

Cause everyone needs a good laugh once in a while, besides, its a full moon.

Al :)
2nd August 2007, 09:07 PM
echnidna

Dunno bout anyone else but to plagiarise Cliffy
Who gives a rats about 10,000 posts

Come to think about it,
Who gives a rats about this inane thread anyway
2nd August 2007, 09:38 PM
bitingmidge

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigb

Why hasn't this thread been deleted yet? :?

Because there is a God!!

P
:D :D :D
2nd August 2007, 09:39 PM
Skew ChiDAMN!!

*poof*

(How does logic sound when it goes up in a puff? :~)
2nd August 2007, 10:11 PM
Master Splinter

Well, the problem with believing in god (on the theory that 'since so many people do believe, there must be something to it') is....which one?

Are we to stick with one of the Abrahamic deities or can we go for one of the more exotic ones with blue skin or inner thetans or....mmmm...(dons pirate costume) rich pasta sauce (is eating your deity good manners?)

Keep in mind that the majority of religions state that unless you believe in 'their' very specific variety of invisible friend...then you are going to hell/di yu/naraka/xibalba/jahannam (or whatever.)

Make your choice wisely...or you're gunna burn/freeze/wander eternally/have a bad day at the office (Buddhism is soooooo slack at this punishment thing).

From the CIA World Factbook, the world is roughly...

Roman Catholics 17.33%, Protestants 5.8%, Orthodox 3.42%, Anglicans 1.23%, Muslims 20.12%, Hindus 13.34%, Buddhists 5.89%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.61%, non-religious 12.03%, atheists 2.36%

Happily, Australia is about 19% 'no religion'.

But personally, I'm backing FSM because of the beer volcano and the stripper factory in heaven.
2nd August 2007, 10:17 PM
Master Splinter

...getting back to the topic of the original thread...

Can someone give me the names and phone numbers of all those shameful women who indulge in sex without marriage, thanks?...its been a while...
2nd August 2007, 10:25 PM
Gra

Quote:

Originally Posted by namtrak

There is no god, or spirits, or afterlife it is all nonsense - end of story. :rolleyes:

There is spirits, just had a nice nip of chivas regal

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Because there is a God!!

And he owns an axe:U

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

*poof*

wrong thread, Allan came out of the closet in another thread
2nd August 2007, 10:30 PM
Honorary Bloke

Good Lord! (You'll pardon the expression.) I go to have my nightly lie down and awake to find the Great Theological Debate has broken out. :D

Everyone got their tips in for this weekend? :)
2nd August 2007, 10:49 PM
Grunt

Didn't God play for Geelong?
2nd August 2007, 11:30 PM
Honorary Bloke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunt

Didn't God play for Geelong?

Well, this year, at least! :D :rolleyes:
2nd August 2007, 11:50 PM
lesmeyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunt

Didn't God play for Geelong?

Was that Sammy??:D
Les
3rd August 2007, 12:05 AM
Grunt

No Gary Ablett Snr.

YouTube

Quote:

Was that Sammy??:D

Sammy just thinks he is.
3rd August 2007, 12:57 AM
ubeaut

For He so loved the Forums that looked out upon this Thread and pondered the good and the bad of it as well as the fact that the bulk of the thread was centered around the signature of a Funkychook.

Do they not know that around here God, is known as Neil (the benevolent and wise):cool2: and His little band of Demi Gods are known to all as.... (the enforcer), Ozwinner (the berserker), Groggy (the mediator), Wood Butcher (the resourceful) and Scooter (the level headed) and His one really hot Funky Chick Goddess Rufflyrustic (the Killer Queen).

He shook his head and raised his mighty right hand saying "Holy crap.... Me doest think it is time for a good smiting."

With a flick if His wrist His powerful yet just and loving right hand pointed to the enter button, then with a clap of thunder and a flash of light He smote the thread and put it to rest for ever, lest the nonsense overcome all.

:closed1:

Then He quietly disappeared into the night.
:blowup:

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page