Did U watch "CRUDE"

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Isn't it strange that for some strange reason the supply of all major resources ends up exactly at the same time? Resources are limited. We agree on that. But why would all resources peak at the same time? Our use rate does not necessarily match the existing quantity of a resource, so I would have expected each resource to peak at its own time. Take the price graph of any resource you like, wipe the numbers, and noone could tell what resource it is. They are just the same. How did that happen? Peak oil/copper/whatever does not explain this. Awakening China markets explain increasing demand.

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I said we will reach peak in everything, it is just a matter of time. I didn't say they would happen at the same time. The article I linked to said that the largest producer of copper would peak next year. We use an amazing amount of copper, think of all them Ozito drills that get bought and thrown away each year.

Copper had an increase in demand of 4% through out the nineties and that has been increasing. What that means is that over the last 18 or so years, the world has consumed more copper than it EVER has in the past. It's simple exponential growth.

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As reasonable as 5% increase.

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Where are the discoveries? The discoveries that are being made are smaller and harder to get to. We've got all the easy to get to oil and best quality oil. We're now pumping the sour heavy crude not the sweet light stuff.

http://www.energybulletin.net/image/...covery_gap.gif

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The evidence I have seen of the presumed peak is also evidence for peak in any other resource, which simply does not make sense.

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So you don't think we'll use up all the resources? The world has an endless supply? Every resource will peak at some point.

Again Peak Oil is not about the end of cheap oil. Our economies have grown because of cheap abundant energy. Energy will no longer be cheap and no longer abundant. Our economies will no longer grow.

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As soon as we start treating this as certainty instead of a worst case possibility than nothing can be done to prevent it. Instead of working on prevension we will be erecting crap-shields to shield us from flying sheet, and peak-oil becomes a self-fulfiling prophecy. That's counter productive.

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No, we need to inform and wake up as many people as possible so we can do the only possible solution to this and that is to power down.

Simply, there are limits to growth. We live in a finite world, therefore growth cannot be infinite.

Learn to be self-sufficient.

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Have you asked yourself why peak oil gets so little coverage?

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Yes many times. Any government who says to the people, here listen 'we need to stop you buying crap and learn how to feed yourself' will be out of office at the next election.

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Some are reasonable, others are just whacky. They all have one thing in common. They are all wrong.

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You're thoughts on Climate Change?

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Evidence is that the divining power of humanity is close to nil.

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I bet you that each collapse of a civilisation had a few voices say 'Hey, we got to stop doing what were are doing or it will end in tears' and they got ignored.

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Originally Posted by Grunt

Copper had an increase in demand of 4% through out the nineties and that has been increasing. What that means is that over the last 18 or so years, the world has consumed more copper than it EVER has in the past. It's simple exponential growth.

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The problem with an exponential graph is that wherever you are on the line, it looks like you're at the peak, so anyone looking at the graph 50years ago would have seen that the growth was steeper than ever before, and in 500 years time, the graph looks steeper than ever. The fact that growth is exponential of itself is not a problem. A problem only arises when supply exceeds demand, which is difficult as predicting the end of something is very hard - imagine drinking a bottle of coke with a straw with your eyes shut - can you predict when you'll get to the bottom?

Hey javali

Still Nada on mine?

:D

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Originally Posted by rhancock

The problem with an exponential graph is that wherever you are on the line, it looks like you're at the peak, so anyone looking at the graph 50years ago would have seen that the growth was steeper than ever before, and in 500 years time, the graph looks steeper than ever. The fact that growth is exponential of itself is not a problem. A problem only arises when supply exceeds demand, which is difficult as predicting the end of something is very hard - imagine drinking a bottle of coke with a straw with your eyes shut - can you predict when you'll get to the bottom?

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You sure about that? :)

The problem arises before demand exceeds supply. When the resource industry becomes aware that they will be unable to supply demand some time in the future, they will start artificially limiting supply to maximise their returns, and madly buying up alternative energy sources.

Oh wait.. That's already happening...

http://alt-e.blogspot.com/search/label/bp

http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/other...atural-gas.cfm

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...wind_business/

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Originally Posted by Grunt

You're thoughts on Climate Change?

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you must take Climate Change in the big picture ,If this dry up just a bit where in the world would be hit hard :rolleyes: There is going to be a war for water soon in the M/E .Take thier income aswell thems some unhappy campers there .

people will debate if it will happen ,it saves them from doing what should be done ,its time wasted

This one way ahead ,when a storm comes in on a farm one of them big black ones
You bring the stock in ,pick anything close to being pick ,get some wood lots a wood ,and lock everything up in the barn and house ,sit out the storm ,then move on

We sould not be selling things like oil, coal, gas ?????,so you must think do you want to have this when everybody will want it also,,,,,,,War what is it good for

Them clouds are forming ,im bringing them cows in

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Originally Posted by SPIRIT

There is going to be a war for water soon in the M/E

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They are already heading that way. Cant remember the details, but on of the M/E countries is damming one of the key rivers, and the downstream water users are getting p@#$ed as it will reduce their water supply dramatically. will have to do a search and find the story

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Originally Posted by Gra

They are already heading that way. Cant remember the details, but on of the M/E countries is damming one of the key rivers, and the downstream water users are getting p@#$ed as it will reduce their water supply dramatically. will have to do a search and find the story

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Syria has the water ,and Israel has 20 years water left ,westbank less,, much less .l havent read this anywhere a frend works in the field

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Originally Posted by woodbe

You sure about that? :)

The problem arises before demand exceeds supply.

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Sorry, you're right of course - the problem could already exist, but what I'm trying to point out is the difficulty in identifying whether the point of more demand than supply has been reached or not.

I firmly believe we are raping the planet of dwindling resources, and polluting its environment, but I think that doomsayers predicting global destruction risk portraying the environmental message as only coming from crackpots, and that doesn't help convince the general population.

I would rather focus on what is and can, or could be done to change the way we live our lives.

Going back to the main issue, a key point is that one of the major uses of oil is to transport goods, food etc from where its produced to where its consumed (I'm not the only one who buys Stanley tools!), so one of the easiest ways to cut down oil use is to buy locally produced goods (where they are available and are best suited to our needs - eg Mack? leather goods)

Never mind the oil, have a look at how cement is made. It is the biggest pollutant on earth. Oil will run to its limits which are controlled by cost/profit. Any alternative enrgy will not stop other sisnister prcesses. Get off the band wagon and look at reality.

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Originally Posted by rhancock

Sorry, you're right of course - the problem could already exist, but what I'm trying to point out is the difficulty in identifying whether the point of more demand than supply has been reached or not.

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Yes but...

The energy companies are already acting as if they know a shortage is coming. Identifying when/if that point occurs is an academic pursuit.

With all the carbon trading talk in federal politics today, it's becoming clear that we all need to clean up our energy consumption act or get slugged.

woodbe

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Oct05/041005oil.htm

Al :o

exxon have found a solution to peak oil see here...






Yes i know it is a hoax

Dont know why everybody is so concerned about peak oil theory. We're going to choke on our own waste before we run out of oil.

Here is a documentary from Ireland that was shown on their TV earlier this week. It's presented by one of their best known and respected economist (assuming you can respect an economist).

Future Shock

So the idealist in me bought a Prius, Ive driving them for over 5 years now. The pragmatist bought BHP Billiton (pre take over - :D) and the cynic voted Green, mainly because Alan Jones wont come out.

The human race will come to its end as the pathetic, bed soiling, greedy, self anihilating species it is. Pity I dont believe in a higher power. Could blame it/them,

Sebastiaan