Gotta love Texas USA

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Originally Posted by Glider

It makes everyone feel better to think that our place is better than theirs, but its not. It's just different.

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Yes I hear what you're saying, most of their values align with ours and I don't necessarily think we're better on most things but when it comes to guns we are MILES better not just different. In the last 10 years they have had well over 1000 mass shootings and around 400 school shootings and around 30,000 to 40,000 gun deaths a year including 20,000 to 25,000 gun suicides a year. In the last 5 years some of those mass shootings have occurred at one a day and school shootings at one a week. Our mass shootings can be counted on a few fingers, school shootings, zero and gun deaths about 200 a year which has slowly come down over the last 30 years despite increased population. When they have a gun atrocity, the solution is more guns and they are the only country in the world that has more guns than people. When we,the UK and New Zealand etc have an incident which is rare we tighten our gun laws and apply tougher restrictions/bans etc.
So in terms of gun culture, attitudes and constitutional amendments they have a very serious problem compared to other similar, civilized countries.

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Originally Posted by barri

So in terms of gun culture, attitudes and constitutional amendments they have a very serious problem compared to other similar, civilized countries.

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Precisely, Barri. The Second Amendment starts with the words "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state...". These opening words illustrate the intention of the legislators at the time. How the US Supreme Court seems to have ignored the phrase "well regulated" is beyond me.

On our last trip to the States, we dined with the Chair of the Faculty of Education at UConn(Connecticut). Two of his former students were murdered at Sandy Hook. He said that if the slaughter of infants didn't change gun laws then nothing would. It's so deeply ingrained into the culture. I wonder why they don't just look over the fence at Canada, but it appears those who hold the power as constituents are not for turning. That's democracy, live with it or leave it. But I'm glad I live here.

mick

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Originally Posted by Glider

Every place has its share of maddies and its own peculiarities, Oz included. Our media don't help with their insular views on the US, mostly without telling the whole story. Neither American exceptionalism nor parts of their constitution have helped; but Australia exhibits its own form of exceptionalism by highlighting America's failings by comparison with our own society. It makes everyone feel better to think that our place is better than theirs, but its not. It's just different.

mick

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I've spent a lot of time in the USA; though it is not measured in years. Many months, certainly, and most of those were in Seattle (work reasons) and with my family. I'm sure I could live quite happily there or the SFO Bay Area, where we have family.

As I've recounted elsewhere on this board; I was being recruited (i.e. I was approached, I didn't go looking for it) for a job in Seattle in 2016 and turned it down after the November election result was known. I have no regrets about that decision.

I've also spent a lot of time in AZ, NC and FL and a short spell in NY. This was all work. Not tourism.

The thing is though, I'm white. I'm going to visually fit in pretty much most places in the USA.

But; our children are adopted and are ethnically African. We pretty much stand out in a crowd anywhere. There have been problems here in Australia (mainly, though not exclusively, in Sydney) for my kids.

Which is not to say that the majority of people in AZ, FL, and NC are anything other than good people. Like people the world over, they're fine. There are just enough folks with (um) somewhat extreme views that they are more noticeable in those states; based on actual people I met, in a professional work setting. A couple of those just blew my freaking mind!

And you're right. We have dills in the same category here. Some of them even occasionally get elected; but not many of them can make it last. Our electoral system of compulsory voting (attendance, anyway; though most people do) and preferential voting means the system averages most of the extremists out.

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

Love it or leave it - easy to say, hard to do.

:U

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Yup. Certainly doesn't stop lots of aussies from saying it on jan 24th... And in some cases rightly so. Anyone wants to bag the place your are essentially a guest, then sod off. They knew what they were getting into, regardless of cost.

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Originally Posted by markharrison

And you're right. We have dills in the same category here. Some of them even occasionally get elected; but not many of them can make it last. Our electoral system of compulsory voting (attendance, anyway; though most people do) and preferential voting means the system averages most of the extremists out.

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Perzactly! However we also have cashed up citizens who cultivate and groom potential politicians for their own political and financial agendas. Nothing unique to Australia by any means, but as you say most end up as "one term wallies" when the public get tired of their single agenda platforms.

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Originally Posted by Glider

I wonder why they don't just look over the fence at Canada, but it appears those who hold the power as constituents are not for turning.

mick

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I have to giggle at that. Canada is far from a good example of how a society should be run.

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Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

I have to giggle at that. Canada is far from a good example of how a society should be run.

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There is no perfect society. It's a scale where there is lots of competition for the wooden spoon.

Canada, like us, is also not perfect. However, neither of us are actually trying to win the wooden spoon.

I also do not believe that most citizens of the USA genuinely want to win that dubious prize either; even the ones I genuinely disagree with. That said, I do not know that conservative politicians in the USA actually have a coherent philosophy (apart from staying in power) that makes sense to anyone not already deeply embedded in that group. But, maybe that's just a lack of imagination on my part ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Japan is pretty perfect. As long as you ignore the 95% of the nutbaggery.

Australia is pretty perfect too. As long as you ignore 96% of the nutbaggery.

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Originally Posted by markharrison

....
I do not know that conservative politicians in the USA actually have a coherent philosophy (apart from staying in power) ....

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I could not say it any better and not get banned.

"I do not know that conservative politicians in the USA actually have a coherent philosophy (apart from staying in power)"

All pollies have that aim, it doesn't matter if you are a communist dictator, conservative or radical, you just want to stay in power, so the money keeps rolling in.

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Originally Posted by rrich

I could not say it any better and not get banned.

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One thing is for sure. Remove conservative and replace with liberal. There is no difference between either side. They're all idiots that subscribe to either side. Intelligence is water (life giving) and politics is oil (pollution to the world). You will never mix them. On the left you have approx. 25% of the population is staunch liberals and on the right you have approx. 25% that say they are staunch conservatives. In the middle, we are the remaining 50% that wished covid would kill off both the right and left and leave us to get things back on track.

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Originally Posted by markharrison

There is no perfect society. It's a scale where there is lots of competition for the wooden spoon.

Canada, like us, is also not perfect. However, neither of us are actually trying to win the wooden spoon.

I also do not believe that most citizens of the USA genuinely want to win that dubious prize either; even the ones I genuinely disagree with. That said, I do not know that conservative politicians in the USA actually have a coherent philosophy (apart from staying in power) that makes sense to anyone not already deeply embedded in that group. But, maybe that's just a lack of imagination on my part ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Correct!! Sadly though Canada seems more intent to drag their country into the abyss. It is truly sad to see it's demise. Almost as sad as watching the US tear itself apart. My thoughts are that North America is going to collapse before a hundred years are over. The only one left standing will be Mexico.

A good friend, a gun nut was discussing guns and gun regulation. I asked, "What well regulated militia are you a member of?" I am not sure we are friends any more.

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Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

I have to giggle at that. Canada is far from a good example of how a society should be run.

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Well named sir! Rather than holding up Canada as an example of good governance, the comment was made in the context of gun control only. My apologies if I was unclear.

mick

This seems to encapsulate a couple of contentious issues :U
Pete

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