Tax

I must be the only misguided uni student here that ever enjoyed a cool refreshing beer at my uni bar .... funded in part of course by awful student unions... $1 pots and $2 basics every day of the week back in 1994.

I was also the only student that ever used library facilities after hours (if it wasn't for student unions they would only have been opened between 9 and 5pm)....

I lecture uni students from UNSW and QUT and actually agree (despite my postings) that you should be able to choose whether you want to join a union.

I work in general practice and a user pays system in health care would be a disaster for low income earners, especially if you had a chronic disease. How many of you gripe about paying to see the GP? How many of you pay for your pathology tests, x rays, medications etc (don't forget ALL of it, ie: remove the bulk billed part and the subsidised medications through the PBS)? Don't get me started on smokers....we need the tax they pay on cigarettes to pay for their overuse of health care dollars later on...

Granted, 4WDs for people who need them in the bush - absolutely, but not for city dwellers who drive them for image and never get to see a dirt track! Try the David Suzuki nature challenge!

Cheers
Dan

As for student unions, I did first year of a degree full time and the balance externally. I used the student union in the first year, free beer nights where very well patronised and although you could find fault the union did provide a service. As an external student the union held no interest but I didn't mind paying the fee, but back then there was no HECS fees either now they really suck. Introduced by politicians who got free degrees to slug students on low or no income, and we want an educated nation? JohnC

Hecs repayments are based on what you earn. If you earn nothing you pay nothing. If you earn lots you pay it back quickly. I can't think of a much fairer system for people without the money to pay for further education to get that education. The other option is that only the rich kids get university educations. Now that would be really fair.

Pancakes anyone???

(Don't knock the rich, as of today rich is contributing large amounts towards the payments on my new Bobcat:p )

Bananas are good with pancakes

Cheers

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Originally Posted by DanP

Hecs repayments are based on what you earn..

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And if you happen to earn in the vicinity of the threshold the system can be quite a pain. ie If I work no OT I don't pay HECS but work 2 hours OT and HECS is witheld. But its not levied on what you earn above that amount, like tax. It is a fixed % of all, and of course if the net rise to my wage is less than the HECS %, I get less take home pay.
I'd be quite happy to pay higher marginal tax rates to repay HECS than have this situation.
Allthough I will get a pay rise soon that will push me back into HECS territory.

So I'll probably get a pay rise and end up with a pay reduction.

Further to that, I went along happily for a year nearly having HECS witheld, but come tax time the thresholds were raised and they gave it all back to me.
I could have put it onto HECS myself, but with three kids.. And no new gouges.

Technically Im rich....salary usually just over $100,000 but I dont really see myself as a rich ba...d. House is paid off and I have a brand new workshop to play in but only managed all that because I dont have kids and my wife works. I also spend at least half my year imprisoned on offshore oil rigs in often not so nice parts of the world so I feel quite entitled to the salary I get...or whats left of it after Costello and co take their cut.

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Originally Posted by vsquizz

Pancakes anyone???


Cheers

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No thanks squizz....pancakes a bit rich.

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Originally Posted by AlexS

I am really happy to be paying taxes, especially since i found that the government can afford to spend $5000 per chair for fat-asred cabinet ministers, most of whom are complete oxygen bandits and a waste of space. :mad:

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I agree...given em bean bags. Really cheap ones from the 2 dollar shop...the ones that make your ar...e itch if you sit on them for too long!!

It's alway been an argument on which way to lean left or right where is the middle or what is the moral ground.
To me it's really simple "I hereby agree that If I wish to enjoy the trappings of success in my life, I will as a human being also agree to helping a few of the less fortunate, it's only a few dollars after all.
and why the hell not, helping our fellow citizens out is as Aussie as......
like many of us having experienced life from both sides of the fence teaches us lessons and I for one will NEVER forget these lessons learnt from either perspective.
Let us consider it a user pays system for being allowed to be relatively well off, or the peasants may indeed start revolting and lop off our uncollective heads.



Bruce C.
(BTW I personally am not in the top brackets, but I'm not in the lower ones, I don't begrudge people wealth when they earn it, through application and hard work, however when they believe they're entitled to success as a birthright......well I say VIVA la revolution comrade......, this is also one of my favourite late at nite had a few drinks topics)

One reason the NUS and the ardent student unionists are afraid of voluntary student unionism is because most students are likely to vote with their feet and not join. If uni is an educational experience to prepare you for life, then students could start by learning that nowhere else (to my knowledge) is it compulsory to join a union. Workers join unions because they hold the belief that the union provides them with a benefit. If the union is seen as not providing a benefit, membership slumps - as we are seeing now.

As for providing services - with the amount unis are charging, these services should be provided by the uni. The problem with the higher education debate is that people have this expectation that everyone ought to be able to go to uni. Realistically, only people who want to take up a profession like law, science, medicine or engineering need to go to university. In most other areas, on the job training, interspersed with some external study would be of more benefit. I think employers in many fields would agree that 1 year of job experience is probably worth more than 3 years of uni. Traineeships and apprenticeships are the way to go, but the idea that uni is for everyone is killing the trade and retail sectors and causing the Govt to spend more money funding uni's to pay for students to do courses that they don't really need....

As for lecturers, I get the distinct impression that TAFE lecturers are far more professional in the delivery of their lessons than uni lecturers. Uni lecturerer tend to be very smart in their field, but often terrible at imparting their knowledge to students. One thing the Govt could do is to legislate that all uni lecturers have to pass a spoken English test!

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Originally Posted by Dion N

................If uni is an educational experience to prepare you for life, then students could start by learning that nowhere else (to my knowledge) is it compulsory to join a union............

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Last time I worked on a large commercial site (Cairns Casino, 1995) I was forced to join the union. I rang the appropriate government department to complain as supposedly in Queensland there's no such thing as compulsory unionism. I was told that they didn't get involved in these things. Apparently the union goes to the builder at the beginning of the job and tells them that they will give them all hell unless they (the builder) requires all the contractors to "ensure" that all workers join the union.

Mick

Had the same problem years ago Mick, " you either join the union, or you dont work" :eek:


Al :(

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Originally Posted by Dion N

One reason the NUS and the ardent student unionists are afraid of voluntary student unionism is because most students are likely to vote with their feet and not join.


As for lecturers, I get the distinct impression that TAFE lecturers are far more professional in the delivery of their lessons than uni lecturers.

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Must agree on both counts, Have had to pay the student Union standover Fee
And been paid as a lecturer.


How many Uni lectures :left school:went to Uni :became Uni Lecturers. ?
How many tafe lectures :left school:went to Tafe:became Tafe Lecturers. 0
Draw your own conclusions as to what this means.



The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

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Originally Posted by Dion N

As for lecturers, I get the distinct impression that TAFE lecturers are far more professional in the delivery of their lessons than uni lecturers. Uni lecturerer tend to be very smart in their field, but often terrible at imparting their knowledge to students. One thing the Govt could do is to legislate that all uni lecturers have to pass a spoken English test!

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One of the greatest misconceptions about unis is that their main purpose is to provide a profession. The main purpose a university has is to do research. Teaching exists only for training researchers, and for funding. Universities are not supposed to give a profession. TAFE or apprenticeship are much better at that. This is the main reason that those professions that do require uni education also require an internship period. Uni education only provides the background knowledge. The internship provides the profession.