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I went looking for the "Do Not Feed the Troll" smilie, but it doesn't seem to exist any more. It would be particularly useful in this thread.
OK maybe time to go back to first principles, play the ball, not the man:
Do you have a problem with this statement?
Well I still don't know anyone with the virus, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone with it! That's not surprising because here in Queensland only one in 20,000 people that you're likely to run into on the streets has it.
How about this?
I don't wear a mask, I don't possess any hand sanitizer, and I don't have the virus.
And this?
I can't see any alternative to herd immunity but it would take a brave person to suggest we go down that route...
...and the best response I get is:
I went looking for the "Do Not Feed the Troll" smilie
Pathetic!
I understand where you are coming from but you could look at it this way. If we didn’t approach it like we have done your statement could well of been “I still don’t know anyone who hasn’t had the virus”
I get it about the impact on the economy but think it is a balancing act of keeping the economy running V an acceptable amount of infections that our healthcare system can manage. I think we need to accept there will be deaths and we need to maintain as normal a life as we can with a palatable death rate associated with it
I can’t see how it can go any other way unless there is a miracle cure
I'm still out on the streets without a mask, sanitiser or the virus. With all of the restrictions in place, the only difference to my life is that I kinda wanted to play poker at the casino on Easter Sunday, but I couldn't because it is shut. The blokes I have spoken to about this at work are in the same boat. Basically no change to any part of their lives. What I am saying is that the restrictions could be a whole lot worse.
When you mention herd immunity, does this mean "the ones that are left"?
I ask, as with immunisation, this is what I know H.I. as: "the vast % of the pop get the shot and the 1% who cant, for whatever reason, survive due to the social good of others."
If its the other way around, just letting the cull occur due to an individuals bad luck, a slight genetic difference that disadvantages some, or some other thing (such as ripping through the cities and passing the towns), then I don't think too much of "Herd Immunity" as a strategy.
So far, from what I know, only certain people have a genetic predisposition that seems to confer a slightly more favourable outcome.
I've also read that this foul beastie is now 3 discrete versions (on top of the dozens of minor variants)... so while one may be *immune* to a particular variant, the others will surely get ye!
This is one thing I'm leaving FIRMLY to the scientists.
Our only response, as good people, is to minimise damage/harm to those who cannot be protected and ensure everyone's treated fairly.
I'm seeing a lot of good in people over this. I am happy that people are being people again and deprogramming themselves of corporatism.
Here is an interesting read: Australians share great acts of kindness during the coronavirus crisis
Ah! I've news!
Yes, my neighbour definitely was a plague victim.
As best as I can tell, everything was moved out over the weekend. I'm not sure if he went off to the farm.... or simply back to mums to recover. No news there..... but, somewhat interestingly, the unit went up for rent about 10 days ago. This area, until the plague, had 20 groups to a viewing for every property. It was obscene..... now... zip. Zilch. Nada. RE agent was pretty narky when she visited today. Maybe rents will lower soon :)
Also, more news, one of my daughters clients, was hospitalised Thursday. Coma. Still in it. Outlook looks grim.
So, while I dont know someone with it, I know of people with it.
I might add, that the whole "business closing and social distancing" thing here is 100% crap. The main road here is busier than ever. Shops are doing a ripping trade. Tradies and deliveries have increased FIVE FOLD. They are going gang-busters on the building sites.
For the data fiends, the local government has built this dashboard: Microsoft Power BI
It has four parts.
Its not bad.
My area is "Molonglo" (Its a lovely area. visit some time :) )
Data sources are listed on page 4.
This ...thing... keeps getting worse.
Apologies to be so spammy tonight (SWMBO is sick and in bed, so Im a tad bored!).
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...06213.full.pdf
and a preview of the info:
Quote:
"In this study, we selected 95 strains of SARS-CoV-2, isolated from 11 different countries...The results obtained...indicate high severity of SARS- CoV-2 ...with inherent capability of unique mutations and the evolving viral replication strategies to adapt to human hosts."
Development of universal vaccines against the novel SARS-CoV-2 holds utmost urgency...However...the underlying severity hidden in the SARS-CoV2 genomes is required to be fully understood.
We revealed unique single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs)...within 10 viral isolates from USA. These ...[indicate] highly evolved strains of the novel SARS-CoV-2 circulating in the population of USA [more] than in other countries.
Furthermore, we found an isolate from USA...to carry frameshift mutation... Thus, we reason that the replicative machinery of the novel SARS-CoV-2 is fast evolving to evade host challenges and survival.
These mutations are needed to be considered, otherwise it will be difficult to develop effective treatment strategies.
...two proteins also...might confer selective advantage to the virus. Through the construction of SARS-CoV-2-human interactome, we further reveal multiple host proteins...which are manipulated...for mediating host immune mechanism for its survival.
In this study, we selected 95 strains of SARS-CoV-2, isolated from 11 different countries to understand the transmission patterns, evolution and pathogenesis of the virus.
The results obtained from the analyses indicate high severity of SARS- CoV-2 isolates with inherent capability of unique mutations and the evolving viral replication strategies to adapt to human hosts.
...two genes...found to...enhance the multiplication and facilitate growth of [the] virus inside the host.
Similarly, the S protein which helps in the entry of virus to the host cells...[was] found to be accelerated towards...the successful ability of enzyme to initiate the infection.
Another positive diversifying gene...protects the genetic material of virus from host immune responses...
Overall, the data represent that the growth and multiplication related genes are highly evolving.
Although the primary mode of infection is human to human transmission through close contact, which occurs via spraying of nasal droplets from the infected person, the primary site of infection and pathogenesis of SAR-CoV-2 is still not clear and under investigation.
The genomes of six isolates, specifically from USA, were found to harbour unique amino acid SNPs and showed amino acid substitutions in ORF1b protein and S-protein, while one of them also harboured a frameshift mutation. This is suggestive of the severity of the mutating viral genomes within the population of USA. These proteins are directly involved in formation of viral replication-transcription complexes (RTC).
Therefore, we argue that the novel SARS- CoV-2 has fast evolving replicative machinery and that it is urgent to consider these mutants in order to develop strategies for COVID19 treatment...these mutants...might confer selective advantage to evade host responsive mechanisms...It is predicted that major immune-pathogenicity mechanism by SARS-CoV-2 includes the host cell environment alteration by disintegration by signal transduction pathways and immunity evasion by several protection mechanisms. The mode of entry of this virus by S-proteins inside host cell is still unclear but it might be similar to SARS CoV-1 like viruses.
Lastly, we believe that COVID-19 is being transmitted from human to human, but as more data accumulate the picture will be more clear, as these virus spread beyond the imagination of scientific community.
At the White House briefing this morning (AEST) Trump really let rip on the press. The salient parts of it are covered in this article:
Wounded by media scrutiny, Trump turned a briefing into a presidential tantrum | US news | The Guardian
There are 3 short vids in there, and it's the first and last that the most relevant. The second one just shows the bizarre PR reel that he got his staff to put together.
This ap, from our glorious government will probably send you into a full blown conniption!
It has a full time tracker built in :)
Just released....
Coronavirus Australia - Apps on Google Play
So sorry to hear that mate.
Similar to Bobl watching the Italian situation closely I have been reading the Dutch papers and news.
Today I found out that the Dutch statistics only cover the infection rate and death numbers of those tested for the virus, anyone dying that only saw a GP and not tested, was not counted.
Very few were tested because of lack of tests available so I do not trust the figures from Netherlands. I presume that is the same for a lot of countries.
Peter.
There was a health care worker who died of Covid-19 last week in Melbourne. I knew his wife, Jools used to work with her.
Sorry to hear that about your friend Derek.
I'm currently watching the White House briefing live. Trump has just announced that he is suspending funding to WHO, and has gone on a long diatribe condemning the organisation. There will be a very lively q&a session at the end...especially after yesterday when he declared that the president has absolute power in a situation like this.
Derek, the actual problem is that the virus is real and the decisions to tackle it head on via my preferred method of eradication or the bad method of herd immunity both come with a cost that is more than anyone make a decision on. So "essential workers" like me are needed to continue doing there thing which will likely bring about the decision of herd immunity being forced upon us.
report on Adelaide news a D...head tried off loading $10.000 worth of TP and sanitiser on ebay..had that shut down so dipstick returns to supermarket and they told him to store it in a safe place.:oo: :D
As explained to me by an immunologist in simple language that I might understand...
"Viruses hitting the human host for the first time" behave in very different ways to when it's in its reservoir host/s.
When a virus is new to a host population its variants become more or less successful at keeping the host alive and active enough to pass the code on to more individuals. Until then some variants are more or less contagious, others are more or less debilitating (thus reducing transmission rates) and other strains are so debilitating it result in an earlier death and higher mortality rates in the new host population.
A more deadly variant isn't necessarily more successful for the virus (and definitely not for us humans), but that virus 'experiment' can emerge from the mutations at any time. Slowing the rate of transmission also has the advantage of slowing down the rate of mutation (I think I understood that). If you throw the dice less often you get less variation. Some viruses also throw off more mutations than others.
We don't know yet where the Covid-19 mutations will take us with all of that. Dampening its spread will give us time to understand it and do things like develop effective and safe vaccines for the most prevalent strains.
The reference H1N1-1918 flu virus demonstrates how a virus can quickly mutate when the spread is rapid and how the variants can have very different impacts on us, but also that (other than its initial success) it hasn't been one of the more successful viruses, only achieving one significant return so far. However, any one of the flu types could come back with a vengeance for which Covid-19 will be a good drill.
One of the most successful viruses has been the 200 variants of the common cold that just keep mutating a little bit each season so that we don't develop immunity, making us miserable with the symptoms but not enough to stop us spreading it.
From news.com.au the video response by the exec was awesome :) Supermarket boss’s blunt reply to toilet paper hoarder wanting refund
This is apparently an earlier ditty the guy did.... YouTube (NSFW)
If you asked someone in the small community of NW Tassie 10 days ago if they knew anyone with Covid-19 the chances are they would have almost all answered no.
Today there are over 100 cases there. Ask them again now and I expect many in that NW Tassie community will know somebody who has it and if not already then they will in the coming days as the numbers grow.
The percentage of those tested (targeted at those who were though to be at high risk of contracting it) have returned a 10% positive result. Source
The two regional hospitals are now closed. If you end up in hospital or an ICU for any reason you are going to be a long way from your local community, ie if they manage to get you there in time. Not a nice prospect having spent a few stints in hospital myself and with others that were seriously ill.
Similar story doing the rounds down here.
Allegedly, someone tried to sell 5,600 rolls of toilet paper on eBay and Gumtree, and was promptly delisted. Then tried to sell it back to major supermarkets:
- One declined as they could not be sure that the product was "virus free", and
- Other offered to buy it all - at wholesale prices.
Probably an urban myth.
Could not agree more, this kind of escalation is why the approach, that might seem heavy handed, is the only way to have this really addressed. The other example is the person in Western Sydney who exhibited minimal symptoms but still went to work, now there are a total of 10 confirmed cases and several other people in isolation in case they come down with it.
News media routine states that Australia is not doing as well as New Zealand but a lot better than USA and UK in the battle against coronavirus but it is difficult to compare figures because od the very different population sizes of the countries.
I tried to standardise the comparisons by looking at daily new cases per million of population. All coronavirus and population figures were sourced from worldometers at 12 noon today. But some massaging was needed. First the daily new cases for Australia from raw data.
Attachment 471747
The spikes and troughs in the data are not really what one would expect. My guess is that they reflect imperfections in the clerical process of assembling the data. For example, front line medical staff may not see the statistics as a high priority and my send yesterday's data off to HQ today, or tomorrow. Some data may arrive after the stats clerk goes home. etc. So I decided to smooth the data somewhat using simple three and five day moving averages: see next post.
Surprise, surprise someone has cherry picked NW Tassie as the exception to the rule. Not unexpected as this is certainly a major outbreak when compared with the rest of Australia. I might add this occurred after lockdown had been brought into effect which would seemingly question the effectiveness of lockdown.
But my point was that "in Australia" this problem doesn't have anywhere near the same degree of importance as it does in say NYC. If I lived in NYC I'd never leave home without being fully kitted up in PPE. But I don't live in NYC so my chances of coming into contact with a carrier are still something like 1:10,000. Still good odds IMO. To fine some poor guy $1652 because he set off to go mountain biking BY HIMSELF is the ultimate in stupidity (and there are plenty of other examples of this jackboot behaviour).
My other question was what do we do once the virus has been eradicated from Australian soil? Presumably it is still active in other countries so that would suggest we cease all contact with them (AKA "close our borders"). That means no tourism, no exports, no imports blah, blah, blah... Where's the money coming from? How do you think that $130bn was funded?
I can't see an alternative to herd immunity but I'm open to ideas. Anyone?
I smoothed the bar charts using three and five day moving averages.
Attachment 471749
Attachment 471750
Noting that no graphical depiction is perfect, My assessment is that the 5-day moving average gives the best depiction of reality, minimising the distractions of data eccentricities.
I then plotted the same five day moving averages for daily new cases per million of population and Australia and USA.
Attachment 471753
After adjusting for population, Australia is doing significantly better than the USA.
Also note that the daily number of new cases in the USA appears to have peaked and may be starting to decline. But still at a worrying level!
I then plotted the same data for Australia and UK.
Attachment 471757
Australia also seems to be doing much better than the UK.
On a per capita basis the UK still has slightly fewer cases than the USA but its cases are still increasing exponentially. It may reach or even pass the USA rate.
This did surprise me. The same data for Australia and New Zealand - note that the y-axis has been rescaled.
Attachment 471761
As expected, this shows that initially New Zealnd did better than Australia at fighting the virus. Their PM moved early and decisively.
But Australia is recovering quicker than NZ. This did surprise me.
Both countries rates and performance are really quite incredible when compared elsewhere.