Does it really matter where it came from? The point was the quote, not the origin. Anyway why was Mayor Richard Daley in Chicago in the 1950's commenting on the NSW police force in the 1980s?Quote:
Originally Posted by GraemeCook
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Does it really matter where it came from? The point was the quote, not the origin. Anyway why was Mayor Richard Daley in Chicago in the 1950's commenting on the NSW police force in the 1980s?Quote:
Originally Posted by GraemeCook
From Shedhand, just now:
Attachment 470844
Not funny Brett
This is an interesting read from the ABC.
Coronavirus data shows our isolation regime is a marathon, not a sprint - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
In summary it suggests we'll have be in this lay-low state for a lot longer than we think.
It sounds to me like you've achieved what you've all been after. Well done. Congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Perhaps you could explain what you would have done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
80% of people will get it. So far, 20% of those who get it, die.
Think of five friends. One is dead.
Think of four friends. If they are fine, you're it.
Now for the contention - this affects boomers 9 times in 10. Those who are in the greatest denial are... boomers.
Jesus. Its as if you all couldn't give a f*ck.
edit - Tccp123, I'm finding it very hard to understand where you are coming from. You make no sense. I think you are in a deliberate denial/delusional/irrational state... some form of reality distortion, where what is occurring isn't real, or is in some way a massive international conspiracy. Wake up Neo - its time for the red pill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
While most thinking people are transfixed with horror by the annihilation of our global economy, the left are rejoicing.
This week GetUp! emailed their supporters in raptures over the wartime measures our government has taken to see people through the pandemic.
“We Won – BIG” their subject line announced triumphantly.
Doubled Newstart allowances, 6 months rent-free, 6 million Aussies receiving wage subsidies from the government, FREE daycare...
For the socialists, this is life as it always should be.
Never mind that it’s come at the cost of a World War II sized deficit our children’s children will likely be paying off.
The climate alarmists are rejoicing also.
Planes are grounded, oil demand has plummeted, and industry is halted as great swathes of our economy are forbidden from functioning – all of which mean reduced Co2 emissions.
For this particular brand of lefty, even the pandemic’s death toll has an upside: less people mean a smaller carbon footprint.
Now now, that is just no way to get written into my will.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Went to the Food Co-op to buy eggs this arvo. I had my 30ml squirt bottle of WHO brew in my pocket, P2 mask on, orange nitrile super-glove on my left hand (need the right for fingerprint). The coins in my pocket have been sat in weak bleach and then boiled for ten minutes. Yep, I'm serious about this.
Person at the door said I can wash my hands at the sink before and after, and would I please take off the glove "we'll give you another glove on the way out".
Me: "that would be ok but your gloves are nowhere near as good as this one"
Them: "Doesn't matter"
Me: "ok, how about if I sterilise my hand and the glove with this WHO brew sanitiser?"
Them: "No, you have to take the glove off and wash your hands. We don't know where that glove has been."
Me: "ok, I'll wash the glove on my hand"
Them: "No, that's not enough"
Me: "ok, I'll wash the glove on my hand AND sanitise it"
Them: "No, that's not enough"
Me: "Why not? How is that any different to washing my skin which has cracks, pores, lines and fingernails for the virus to hide in?"
Them: Thunder faced, mouth still moving but no sound issuing.
Then I was accused of not taking it seriously (them was not masked, or gloved) and of putting myself above their safety. I responded that they wanted me to lower my safety standards to suit theirs.
So while I was diligently washing my hand and gloved hand - having to push plungers and tap lever that other people touch - another person decided to tackle me about it. They too ended up with a noiselessly moving mouth in the face of (quite simple) logic. Then I moved away and sanitised as well, got my eggs, and presented my boiled money to pay for them. Person taking the money said they were involved in public health previously, and agreed that I was indeed taking it very seriously.
None of the staff had masks or gloves on. I applaud them for the hand washing caper. And their eggs. The eggs are great! Bloody monsters lately - one was 78 grams!
Sometimes people have to follow rules just because them's the rules, even in the face of superior techniques. Tis a pity that not enough people can think well enough.
"80% of people will get it. So far, 20% of those who get it, die."Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Crap
"Think of five friends. One is dead."
Ok I've thought of five. None is dead, In fact none have got it. OK I've thought of 100. None are dead. In fact none have got it. I asked here did anyone know anyone who had it and the only answer was the uncle of my wife's brother's father in law's second cousin...I think.
Baby boomers are in denial? Horses**t! Most of you are baby boomers and you have been sucked into it hook line and sinker. Look at today's news, 100s of people flock to Manly Beach, not a baby boomer among them!
My heart goes out to the poor people who work at these places who are faced with dealing with stupid people every single day. I don't know how they get out of bed in the morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
I don't think those numbers are worth much.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Until we know the numbers of those who have been infected without even knowing about (which currently ranges from 20 to 1000% ) via some sort of antibody test the real death rate is unknown
The death rates will vary dramatically depending on a countries population profile and ability to flatten the curve. Countries with a younger age profile will have lower death rate than those with older profiles as being demonstrated by Italy and Spain.
Morrison: Hey Josh, better ring the mint and get them to start up the presses. We need more dosh. About $130b should do...for now.
You guys have sure made up for the late start this morning. :D
You can buy them at Bunnings. You just have to know where to find them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
If I remember correctly, Bob has a doctorate. Where did you buy yours from Bob or were you just given it?
Others participants in this thread may be similarly well qualified or have recognised expertise in their respective fields.
But, who needs qualifications and expertise.
I just love the Dunning and Kruger Effect when you see it in action. In the report on their research, titled Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments, (1999)
Quote: compared with their more competent peers, incompetent individuals…will dramatically overestimate their ability and performance relative to objective criteria; that they will be less able…to recognize competence when they see it (whether their own or someone else’s).
This is not a function of low intelligence, but more a failure in meta-cognition and perhaps to some extent motivational biases (temperament).
However, the most competent group in the study did the reverse, they underestimated their competence. I observe that over and over again in competent people. In my experience highly competent people don't claim to be experts, they become identified as experts in their domain when they are acknowledged a such by the others in their field.
My reference group for that observation are, at last count, the eight immediate members of my wife and my family with doctorates, countless post-docs, six professorships, four fellows of various royal colleges, plus a few close friends with personal academic chairs (not from Ikea), plus a smattering of Companions of Australia and the odd knighthood (they are particularly cheap, but a bit harder to come by nowadays). Some of these got given to them for Christmas or a special birthday, the remainder were purchased from various shops around the world. There a few good little ones with bargains in Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard and Tokyo. As for those honorary qualifications that they just give away, the less said the better. Likewise, keynote addresses at world conferences and the peer reviewed publications in the thousands.
Next to the Troll Food. Old mate should see them pretty soon, if he's game enough to venture out again.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
just some very rough numbers
there's something like 26 million people in Australia.
we're going to be under enhanced "self-isolation" for at least 90 days.
if each person ventures outside once every third day, that would require 26,000,000 x 30 = 800 Million (in round numbers) masks.
Where is the Government going to source that amount of PPE just for the great "now washing their hands" unwashed?
It may sound callus, but reserving PPE supplies for the medical professionals is IMO the only logical response.
I dunno where the government will source 800million masks, but they say they have secured 400million masks so far.
COVID-19 in Australia: we are not Italy, Iran or Spain | Australian Government Department of Health
Quote:
On top of this, we will soon start taking delivery of more than 400 million additional masks, as well as additional hand sanitiser, goggles, gloves and gowns. These new supplies build on the 3.1 million masks distributed to states and territories over the past week.
I reckon they're buying them from China who cornered the market when all this started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
They probably are sourcing the gear from China. I reckon the government would be willing to source the vaccine or cure too from China for many 10's of billions of dollars if China was selling a proven vaccine. I have no problem with this.
Someone sent me this, seems repurposing is alive and flourishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
I just love the Dunning Kruger effect too.
It accounts for all those in this thread who are running around telling most of the others that they are wrong and citing their qualifications (even though the authoritiesare saying that the world is in uncharted waters and nobody has all the answers).
Not much of that going on around here is there?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
I agree, keep the surgical grade PPE for the med staff.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
However, basic washable masks - even a bandana or a pair of undies will be better than nothing, one in the wash and one on the face when you go outside. If you get really desperate one on the face on one on the bum.
For people staying at home they should not need to wear a mask most days. They should only need to use it for the couple of times a week they need to go shopping or to the doctor - otherwise stay home. Exercise should be done well away from everyone else. I envisage the main users will be commuters.
I've had my couple of washable masks for a week - I take one with with me in the car in case of a breakdown and may have to interact with other people but otherwise I have not had to wear one at all.
SWMBO has worn her mask when we have taken the dog to the vet, and to the shops.
Again I reiterate - how does anyone not know they are not just mildly infected and just helping to spread it around?
It's not rocket science.
That's because successful research poses more questions than it answers. Put another way the more you know about something the more you realise how little you know about even that "something". My PhD students had to come up with at least half a dozen serious questions or recommendations for further research in their conclusions chapter. The best research always opens up far more doors than it closes.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
The US is desperate,even some hospitals in the US are now accepting home made masks
Childrens hospital of Philadelphia.
Making Homemade Face Masks | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
CDC expected to reverse position on home made masks
Homemade face masks and coronavirus: New CDC guidelines expected and everything to know - CNET
Minnesota Dept of HEALTH
https://www.health.state.mn.us/disea...p/masksalt.pdf
FenceFurniture, I'll gladly stay in your will if it involves a few tools or a stash of timber :) Can't promise to behave though... I'm not one of the "be nice to Rich Uncle" types. :q:q
Must say, I'm terribly interested in how places like Iran, India and Africa are doing. I hear so little about them - and they, i think, are REALLY going to cop it hard.
Poor bastards.
RiverBuilder may be onto something with that picture. A spacesuit reminds my of the movies Contagion and 12 Monkeys.
Perhaps, just perhaps, we can design an open source version using garbage bags, PU plastic sheeting and some of that bright orange concrete-slab underlay from Bunnings :)
It is for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Yes, for part of it. For example, I had a substantial role over twenty years ago in pioneering and managing online education in Australia. All three levels of education, but mostly with the TAFE system. That has become a focus lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
Did a bit of work internationally. Having been the nominated rappoteur for a UNESCO working group I agree with Bob that the politics and cultural issues are 90% of the effort.
As curriculum manager for a TAFE system I was engaged with the key representatives of a wide range of industries from aircraft maintenance mechanics to hairdressers, from panel beating to aged care.
I have also worked in telecommunication engineering, was a kiln designer and builder and earned my income from art and investing.
As a child I lived in a farming community, working on farms (yes, child labour) and immediate members of my family are still on farms. I also worked in factories on the night shift.
If by suggesting that I might have been a chalkie you are hinting that I have had a narrow experience and understanding of life outside a classroom, think again...:U
However, for the purposes of these forums I am a woodturner, which I have been doing on and off for over 50yrs and 'more on' for the last 20yrs.
Too late this is already happening. The daughter of a friend of ours is on a DIY group making disposable hospital gowns working in conjunction with a hospital in Melbourne.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
i just wished I’d had more time to play up during my past.Quote:
Don't be embarrassed though, everyone tries to play up their past.
Pfffft. That's all it involves. Well, currently there are three used, but excellent black cats (hmmm, not quite so excellent atm, one of them just barfed). And a very good vac pack machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
Having been a successful investor I'm self-funded.
Very unlikely to ever be eligible for the pension.
But, I don't like what you are IMPLYING.
I've been fortunate to be a net contributor to my country and now financially independent for whatever years I have left.
HOWEVER, not everyone is as fortunate. Through no fault of their own, others for whatever reason need our support to live above the poverty line and maintain their well being and self respect. I fully support that. As a society I believe we should be judged by how well our most in need are managing.
And, if I were a pensioner, I would be offended by your attempt to dismiss my views on that basis.
By all means challenge the ideas I express if you have issue with them.
But, please play the ball and not the person!
So that's what BobL looks like with his mask off. :oo:Quote:
Originally Posted by artful bodger
One of the basic rules of a debate is to stick to the topic and do NOT attack the sender.
Someone has had their posts removed and if they continue baiting, will get a holiday....
DavidG Moderator...
ahQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
the big statistical "elephant"
In most (all ?) western countries, poverty is defined in reference to a person's ability to purchase a basket of goods. If you have the income to purchase said basket of goods you are above the "poverty line", if not you are living below said line.
Over time the goods in the basket evolve.
I'm not entirely sure where the poverty line is currently defined in Australia, but with nearly everyone "working from home", we as a community can't be too far off that "basket of goods" including a mobile device for every household member and internet connectivity of a sufficient standard to allow for "working and schooling from home".
For a long time I've been critical that the NBN was more about delivering Netflix to every household than any other single factor. And I would question why the government was persisting down that path.
The current situation is leading me to reevaluate that opinion.
With nearly everyone now "working and schooling from home" the internet has become a basic service that needs to be both reliable and continually on, and part of the poverty line's "basket of goods".
The original NBN promise that 92% of households would get a 100 MB per second connection now appears totally inadequate. Let alone the adequacy of the 10-25 MB connections many now have. Back when I was still working, I estimated that the data I was then regularly using required a connection speed in the range of 1-2 GBit (each LAN had a "Steve's" drive connected to it servicing the building). The decay in connection speed, and the corresponding increased network congestion was particularly noticeable when "Steve's" drive went down in one building and you had to source the required data from another location via the WAN.
The Covid-19 virus is likely causing many to reclassify the internet into a basic good
I'd call it an essential good (if that makes a difference).Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
Way back in the early days of this I was bemoaning the FizzaNet that we have been given. My platform has always been that we should have put in the absolute top whack available, even at cost of an additional $20B or more, because it needed to be able to cope with all the stuff we haven't thought of yet. An entire country working from home would be one of things. The need for Doctors to do whatever they might be able to do remotely would be another. A zoom meeting of 7 people must use up a lot of bandwidth in total.
Not hard to see that much more significant money than $20B may have to be spent on bringing the FizzaNet up to the speed of (say) New Zealand, in the not too distant future.
NeilQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilS
Whilst not strictly on topic ( I do appreciate how we have arrived at this point) that is such a profound statement. It is not how many billionaires we have, but to reiterate:
" As a society I believe we should be judged by how well our most in need are managing. "
Regards
Paul
Well here it is folks (note the way CDC use the term cloth face covering - and not masks)
[CDC] Recommendation Regarding the Use of Cloth Face Coverings, Especially in Areas of Significant Community-Based TransmissionRecommendation Regarding the Use of Cloth Face Coverings | CDCQuote:
CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
But DT says he won't be wearing one !
Trump announces new face mask recommendations after heated internal debate - CNNPolitics
Also
CDC Now Recommends Americans Consider Wearing Cloth Face Coverings In Public : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
This might apply.
Attachment 470897