ABS Releases more useless Stats

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Hi all

I think my points been made.

Thanks for the support :D

cheers

dazzler
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I imagined there would have been something phalic in there. :)

I can't believe half of what I've read in this thread. weak- the both of you. :((
Could have quite easily been contained to PM's flying backwards and forward, but it had to be a public spectacle in a completely unrelated thread. Bad form, gentleman. :~

Dammit.. now I can't even remember what the thread was originally about...

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Some moments later
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Now that I've gone back and read the first post... :no:

Statistics are generally only good for proving how much money can be wasted on boffins cooking them up. There's just no way they can take in the diversity of reasons in an entire neighbourhood, let alone the whole damn country. Right on, SilentC, I say. :2tsup:

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Originally Posted by Wongo

Why do people buy a newer car or a second car while struggling to pay off the mortgage is beyond me. Why?:doh:

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Because we live in a free market economy and people are free to do as they choose.

If I was building a house, there is no way I would build anything smaller than 4 bedroom. My reasoning is quite simple - it will be easier to sell than a 3 bedroom, and wont cost all that much more. And downgrading later, wont hurt as much as trying to upgrade :wink:

Not that I would build a house. Just bought this 4 bedroom 30 year old home - tons of space. We've done our time living in cheap 2 bedroom units, thank you very much.:)

I don't really understand why young people (like 21-25) want to rush out and buy a home. Invariably they buy something small and not terribly exciting, only to want to upgrade later on. There is an insane need amongst some people to be part of the property market. Much better off renting until you know what you want and can afford it. Even then I think home ownership is highly over-rated.

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Originally Posted by q9

.... Even then I think home ownership is highly over-rated.

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Ah yes, the tyranny of possession...where your possessions own you.

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Originally Posted by Article99

I can't believe half of what I've read in this thread. weak- the both of you. :((
Could have quite easily been contained to PM's flying backwards and forward, but it had to be a public spectacle in a completely unrelated thread. Bad form, gentleman. :~

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Hi mate

The fact is I was called a racist by a member in a public forum and have asked him to show the evidence in a public forum. If your gunna say something as filthy as that then you better prove it. Sadly the member would not respond in the thread it was posted in. If you said something like this in the pub you would cop a smack in the mouth.

Sorry if this upsets you.

BTW - I thought it was frowned upon to send nasty PM's to each other by the mods. May be wrong.

cheers

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Originally Posted by q9

Because we live in a free market economy and people are free to do as they choose.

If I was building a house, there is no way I would build anything smaller than 4 bedroom. My reasoning is quite simple - it will be easier to sell than a 3 bedroom, and wont cost all that much more. And downgrading later, wont hurt as much as trying to upgrade :wink:

Not that I would build a house. Just bought this 4 bedroom 30 year old home - tons of space. We've done our time living in cheap 2 bedroom units, thank you very much.:)

I don't really understand why young people (like 21-25) want to rush out and buy a home. Invariably they buy something small and not terribly exciting, only to want to upgrade later on. There is an insane need amongst some people to be part of the property market. Much better off renting until you know what you want and can afford it. Even then I think home ownership is highly over-rated.

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However homes double in value about every seven years. It can be an expensive wait. :(

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Originally Posted by q9

Invariably they buy something small and not terribly exciting, only to want to upgrade later on. There is an insane need amongst some people to be part of the property market. Much better off renting until you know what you want and can afford it. Even then I think home ownership is highly over-rated.

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Sounds like one of my tenants! :D

I've had people with that sort of view contribute substantially to my well-being, so I think I should just be thankful, agree and get on with life!

HOWEVER.

There is an insane equation amongst some people to think that small can't be exciting or that big is better. That's the problem. Instead of accepting small and comfortable, they want to live like Paris Hilton.

Believe it or not, we paid $10,000 for our first house. Took out a 25 year loan too, and didn't think we'd ever see the day when we'd own it. We sold it after two years for $17,000. The profit was equivalent to about our combined year's salary at the time.

I've seen all the sums, and the only people who actually believe that they are better off renting, have convinced themselves that buying houses is only for intellectual inferiors, or they have a vested interest in flogging investment products.

Let's just for a minute pretend that over 25 years, houses increase in value at the same rate of inflation. Let's also pretend, to be fair, that rent does so as well.

Interest rates on the other hand fluctuate, but let's just say they average twice the inflation rate. In very crude terms given the above set of numbers, one could work out a discounted comparison between renting and buying. Without doing the sums, I'm willing to bet that at about the ten year mark, repayments and rent will be the same, and for the last fifteen years, repayments will be less, and after 25, well you guessed it, Mr Renter is still there, while Mr Home Owner is in the south of France having a holiday, or driving round Australia for a year or two, with tenants in his house paying for it all.

Of course there are strategies which will improve that situation remarkably, and in the event that house prices increase by say twice the rate of inflation, and rent increases at the same rate, well Mr Renter is in a spot of bother after that ten year mark. He's actually spending all the money Mr Investment advisor told him to buy investment product with, on rent.

Or am I wrong?

P
:?

We're currently paying around 30% less to buy my home than we would have to pay if we were renting it.

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Sounds like one of my tenants! :D
:?

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I can only dream of the day when I become a slum landlord.:D

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Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb

I can only dream of the day when I become a slum landlord.:D

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BT it aint that easy Some of the tennants you get can be straight from Hell and after all the costs etc if you clear 4% PA on your investment you are lucky:C

Dazzler its not homes that double in value every 7 years its invested cash if you can get a touch over 10%:D

I just want to get my own back after all those years of renting.

"what do ya mean that hole in the roofs an inconvenience"
"If you want me to replace that stove I'll have to increase the rent"
"OK the toilets broken, you'lle just have to use a bucket for a while"
" yeh I'll fix that next week:wink: "

Man what a power trip that could be!:D

What do you mean your not paying rent till that fence pailing is replaced

So I get to keep the bond after 12 months fighting it won't cover the cost of repainting/ carpet ( from where they had pot plants without trays under them :doh: ) etc

What do you mean you wont pay rent and you won't leave :((

Not all however others were fantastic :2tsup:

Hey, didn't I rent a house of you once?:D

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Originally Posted by Ashore

if you clear 4% PA on your investment you are lucky

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Owning an investment house (which is different to owning your own) is absolutely a long term investment.

Don't even worry about getting a return on the total value on the way through, if you do well that's a bonus! In any case, don't forget "your investment" is actually the money you've outlayed (your deposit!), not the total capital value.

And it takes a certain amount of courage to be a generous landlord too.

Roof leak = three week's rent.
Fence Repairs = another week.
Stove gone? Hmmm there goes next month!

All that in the hope that your tenant will treat you with the same courtesy you show them! :wink:

This argument however, isn't about being a landlord, or maybe it is now if q9 and his mates are looking for somewhere to live for the long haul! :D

cheers,

P

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

I've seen all the sums, and the only people who actually believe that they are better off renting, have convinced themselves that buying houses is only for intellectual inferiors, or they have a vested interest in flogging investment products.

Let's just for a minute pretend that over 25 years, houses increase in value at the same rate of inflation. Let's also pretend, to be fair, that rent does so as well.

Interest rates on the other hand fluctuate, but let's just say they average twice the inflation rate. In very crude terms given the above set of numbers, one could work out a discounted comparison between renting and buying. Without doing the sums, I'm willing to bet that at about the ten year mark, repayments and rent will be the same, and for the last fifteen years, repayments will be less, and after 25, well you guessed it, Mr Renter is still there, while Mr Home Owner is in the south of France having a holiday, or driving round Australia for a year or two, with tenants in his house paying for it all.

...

Or am I wrong?

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You're partly wrong. You haven't taken into account rates, insurance, interest rate fluctuations and maintenance. And the decreased flexibility that comes with ownership. Fine if you know you'll never ever move, but if you do...

Anyhow, I did buy a house, but overall I don't view it as an "investment". Pretty much entirely a lifestyle choice and I really, really, REALLY hate real estate agents :)

Now I don't flog investment products, but I do invest in other things. Overall I've done quite well out of that with money I had (no borrowings), plus I have been able to keep liquidity.

Up to each individual what they want to do with their money - no argument here. All I know is that we are substantially better off having waited to purchase. The repayments, though high by some standards, is actually a fairly small and manageable proportion of our incomes. Unlike friends of ours that bought a house several years ago, for much less than we paid, repayments are still quite low compared to ours, but their overall income to debt ratio is scary. Mostly that is because they've had to borrow for everything...cars, furniture, etc. We took our time and own all that stuff already.

Anyhow, I'm not at all bothered if anyone agrees with me or not. We've done what suits us, and it has worked out well for us. That's all I care about :)

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Originally Posted by Ashore

Dazzler its not homes that double in value every 7 years its invested cash if you can get a touch over 10%:D

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You is right.

Except whenever I invest in land it goes backwards :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by q9

Mostly that is because they've had to borrow for everything...cars, furniture, etc.

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Well see that's where we really differ. They didn't have to borrow a zac, they chose to!

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Anyhow, I'm not at all bothered if anyone agrees with me or not. We've done what suits us, and it has worked out well for us. That's all I care about :)

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Sorry if I gave the impression that I was out to bother you. Doing what suits is all one needs to do.

Yes I did take into account rates and all those things, and don't particularly want to get into a fight over that either.

You are correct, the house you live in is NOT an investment, it's a lifestyle assett. It's just that when you actually get to own it, then you don't pay rent at all!

That means living in the house I do for instance, I theoretically get another $400 bucks or more a week (or whatever I'd be paying in rent) to invest without borrowing (or to buy tools!):wink: or if I was clever, to service further investment debt.

That sort of dough just isn't available to normal households paying rent!

Cheers,

P
:D :D

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

...That means living in the house I do for instance, I theoretically get another $400 bucks or more a week (or whatever I'd be paying in rent) to invest without borrowing (or to buy tools!):wink: or if I was clever, to service further investment debt.

That sort of dough just isn't available to normal households paying rent!
......

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Renting is like smoking. :2tsup:

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Renting is like smoking. :2tsup:

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Smoking is like renting?

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Originally Posted by craigb

Smoking is like renting?

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That depends on what you are renting. :D

Those charcoal Winnie Blues at the moment. :D

Don't worry Bitingmidge, I am pretty hard to offend when it comes to talking financials! Mostly I am just happy when people have actually worked out what suits them best rather than just doing something because they believe it to be the thing to do without doing any kind of analysis for themselves.

Plenty of people used to flick the saying "rent money is dead money" at us, to which I promptly replied "so what does that make interest?" Interesing how few people had put any kind of thought to that question prior to my asking...

Anyhow, 3 months into the whole mortgage thing, and we're 4 weeks ahead :) Dunno if we can keep that up, but it would be nice :)

Sometime after the Mrs has finished her degree, I plan to go and do post grad in Applied Finance/Economics. I've turned all Alex P Keaton :)

Well there we are. Thinking it was the RBA/World Banks/Governments who decided the rate rises (or falls) when all along it has been our own fault.

AUSTRALIANS must cut spending to help drive down inflation - or risk another rate rise later this year. That's the grim Reserve Bank warning backed by industry experts who argue homebuyers should merge debts and concentrate on paying off their homes. The RBA yesterday said inflation was stubbornly staying high because we are spending too much.

So what will you be cutting back on - if you have to?

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Originally Posted by Metal Head

Well there we are. Thinking it was the RBA/World Banks/Governments who decided the rate rises (or falls) when all along it has been our own fault.

AUSTRALIANS must cut spending to help drive down inflation - or risk another rate rise later this year. That's the grim Reserve Bank warning backed by industry experts who argue homebuyers should merge debts and concentrate on paying off their homes. The RBA yesterday said inflation was stubbornly staying high because we are spending too much.

So what will you be cutting back on - if you have to?

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Reading Govt reports:U:U

Nothing because I don't spend beyond my means. It's the finance availble to people who can't afford it generating much of the spending.

HH.

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Originally Posted by Metal Head

So what will you be cutting back on - if you have to?

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Well, I'm trying really really hard not to take up the Bessey Clamp offer :(

I think we should all have a fun manager. :D :doh:

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Originally Posted by Wongo

I think we should all have a fun manager. :D :doh:

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I do, it my wife. She make sure I don't manage to have any fun

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Originally Posted by Metal Head

So what will you be cutting back on - if you have to?

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That's why I bought everything I need last year! I don't have to buy anything at all now, so I'm doing my bit for the economy.

:D :D :D
P

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Originally Posted by Wongo

I think we should all have a fun manager. :D :doh:

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Originally Posted by Gra

I do, it my wife. She make sure I don't manage to have any fun

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Gra, you don't get it do you? :D


:think:


:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Wongo

Gra, you don't get it do you?

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Nope:U:U

She wont let me

I was talking about my joke:rolleyes: [sigh]

did you make a joke?