Lets hear your technique and see your results

Garfield,

Like you, I used to be frustrated by the kind of finish I'd achieve. After spending hours on a project, I'd try to stain / finish it, and all these "hidden" problems would be revealed.

I've now got a Metabo ROS, and have learned that preparation is the absolute key. With something like the bookcase you showed earlier in this thread, I would sand all the components before assembly. Do as the others have said, starting with 80 or 120 grit, and then methodically working your way up the grits. It doesn't sound obvious, but progressively finer grits gives a different result than starting with 120 and then jumping straight to 400 grit. The first sand will take the longest, as you get rid of any machining and tool marks. Each grit after that is really quite quick.

Once I'm at 400 grit, I apply a sanding sealer. Like others, I now use a diluted shellac, but I've also had success with a very diluted poly. I wipe it on using old t-shirts. I only use a brush to get it into corners where the rag won't reach properly. Wait a minute or two, then wipe it off so that there's no "wet" areas. This sealing layer does a couple of things. First, it raises any fibres and hardens them. This makes it easier to sand them off. Second, it gives an even surface for your next finish to be applied to.

After this sealing layer is dried, I then sand again with 400 grit, lightly. The first time you do this you'll think you're stuffing the surface. It looks like it's coated with fine flour, and is white! Don't panic.

Wipe off the dust, and then you can apply your next layer. I like to use a mixture of linseed oil and poly (50:50), wiped on liberally, left for a couple of minutes, then buffed off with a clean cotton cloth (more t-shirts). No brushes, no brush marks. I've also used shellac, but this requires a bit more skill as I've found it goes tacky and you have to know when to buff it off to get the best result.

Wiping it off might seem to be counter-productive, but it gives you a very thin even coat. You get a good result by applying many thin coats, not one or two thick coats.

You can sand between coats if you want, but this generally isn't needed. Just keep applying layers and wiping off. Allow the layers to dry between coats (overnight). When you're getting to the kind of finish you're happy with, you can then switch to using the EEE wax which I've found gives a really nice smooth feel.

Do yourself a favour and get a board of radiata or whatever you're typically using, and prove to yourself the value of progressive sanding and wipe-on / buff-off finishes. I think you'll be amazed at what you can achieve.

Allan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ajw

Garfield,

Like you, I used to be frustrated by the kind of finish I'd achieve. After spending hours on a project, I'd try to stain / finish it, and all these "hidden" problems would be revealed.

I've now got a Metabo ROS, and have learned that preparation is the absolute key. With something like the bookcase you showed earlier in this thread, I would sand all the components before assembly. Do as the others have said, starting with 80 or 120 grit, and then methodically working your way up the grits. It doesn't sound obvious, but progressively finer grits gives a different result than starting with 120 and then jumping straight to 400 grit. The first sand will take the longest, as you get rid of any machining and tool marks. Each grit after that is really quite quick.

Once I'm at 400 grit, I apply a sanding sealer. Like others, I now use a diluted shellac, but I've also had success with a very diluted poly. I wipe it on using old t-shirts. I only use a brush to get it into corners where the rag won't reach properly. Wait a minute or two, then wipe it off so that there's no "wet" areas. This sealing layer does a couple of things. First, it raises any fibres and hardens them. This makes it easier to sand them off. Second, it gives an even surface for your next finish to be applied to.

After this sealing layer is dried, I then sand again with 400 grit, lightly. The first time you do this you'll think you're stuffing the surface. It looks like it's coated with fine flour, and is white! Don't panic.

Wipe off the dust, and then you can apply your next layer. I like to use a mixture of linseed oil and poly (50:50), wiped on liberally, left for a couple of minutes, then buffed off with a clean cotton cloth (more t-shirts). No brushes, no brush marks. I've also used shellac, but this requires a bit more skill as I've found it goes tacky and you have to know when to buff it off to get the best result.

Wiping it off might seem to be counter-productive, but it gives you a very thin even coat. You get a good result by applying many thin coats, not one or two thick coats.

You can sand between coats if you want, but this generally isn't needed. Just keep applying layers and wiping off. Allow the layers to dry between coats (overnight). When you're getting to the kind of finish you're happy with, you can then switch to using the EEE wax which I've found gives a really nice smooth feel.

Do yourself a favour and get a board of radiata or whatever you're typically using, and prove to yourself the value of progressive sanding and wipe-on / buff-off finishes. I think you'll be amazed at what you can achieve.

Allan

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Thanks for your input Allan. Did you buy the finishes book mate to learn all this stuff - or just trial and error?

Also mate, with that technique of yours what kind of finish do you get? is it a glassy shiny sort of finish?

Thanks
Geoff

Garf,

I'm probably in a bit of a rut with finishing. Typical for me these days is to sand with ROS (I use the Metabo duo) up to 400g. Then a coat of danish oil (I use a mix of 1/3 tung, 1/3 boiled linseed, 1/3 poly) rubbed in by hand with 800g wet & dry sandpaper. Wipe it off before it dries. Then 2 more coats of danish oil, with a day or so in between each coat. Let that sit for 2-3 weeks, then U-Beaut traditional wax.

The oil seems to give a richer finish, and is easier for me than other finishes. Wipe on poly does a very similar job.

A couple of pics of this finish are in this thread and this one.

The Polishers Handbook was where I learned the most in a short time, and then refined a bit on this forum and reading instructions on packages.

Tex

I use precatalyzed nitro-cellulose lacquer by Mirotone. If I use gloss (which I don't) I can get a deep glossy finish fit for a grand piano. I use semi-gloss which gives good gloss without looking like plastic. As per directions I sand to 280 grit. I use a metabo ROS and have it hooked up to a vacuum cleaner. This makes the abrasive last longer and makes the sanding process faster and cleaner. One sanding disc will usually last long enough for me to prep all the timber doors for an average kitchen.

I apply one coat of sanding sealer (by mirotone, specifically for the above product) and after 20 minutes or so I hand sand it back with 320#. I can then start spraying the NC lacquer straight away. This and the sealer are usually thinned about 50% with lacquer thinners. I apply at least 2 coats, wet on wet, and then after about 20 minutes I turn the item over and apply on the other side. If neccesary I will hand sand again with 320# and apply a couple more coats. For a really smooth finish I might fill the gun with straight thinners and give a coat of that as it will melt the surface and "sink" down any imperfections.

It's quick, easy and cheap (once you've got the compressor and spray gun) and you can get the whole job done to a high standard in less than a day. It's little wonder that most commercial operations use it. It may not be to everyones taste to spray on a finish and the lack of a suitable area to spray in may make it completely unfeasible for some but it's definitely worth considering as a a finish.

Mick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tex B

A couple of pics of this finish are in this thread and this one.

The Polishers Handbook was where I learned the most in a short time, and then refined a bit on this forum and reading instructions on packages.

Tex

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Couple of nice pieces there Tex, and the finish looks great mate. Thanks for posting your technique.

Geoff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

I use precatalyzed nitro-cellulose lacquer by Mirotone. If I use gloss (which I don't) I can get a deep glossy finish fit for a grand piano. I use semi-gloss which gives good gloss without looking like plastic. As per directions I sand to 280 grit. I use a metabo ROS and have it hooked up to a vacuum cleaner. This makes the abrasive last longer and makes the sanding process faster and cleaner. One sanding disc will usually last long enough for me to prep all the timber doors for an average kitchen.

I apply one coat of sanding sealer (by mirotone, specifically for the above product) and after 20 minutes or so I hand sand it back with 320#. I can then start spraying the NC lacquer straight away. This and the sealer are usually thinned about 50% with lacquer thinners. I apply at least 2 coats, wet on wet, and then after about 20 minutes I turn the item over and apply on the other side. If neccesary I will hand sand again with 320# and apply a couple more coats. For a really smooth finish I might fill the gun with straight thinners and give a coat of that as it will melt the surface and "sink" down any imperfections.

It's quick, easy and cheap (once you've got the compressor and spray gun) and you can get the whole job done to a high standard in less than a day. It's little wonder that most commercial operations use it. It may not be to everyones taste to spray on a finish and the lack of a suitable area to spray in may make it completely unfeasible for some but it's definitely worth considering as a a finish.

Mick

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Do you apply a stain on your pieces Mick - or just apply the lacquer over the sanding sealer?

Good post, thanks Mick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garfield

Do you apply a stain on your pieces Mick - or just apply the lacquer over the sanding sealer? ................

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Rarely, although a few years back I used to do a lot of mouldings for boats in Tas Oak or Meranti and stain them "maple". I'm not a huge fan of staining, but whatever the client is willing to pay for etc etc.:rolleyes: As far as my own stuff goes, well I'm fortunate? in that I've got more timber than time to use it. I have a fair range of colours as well, although I'm a bit lacking in really pale/blond timbers as I've used up most of my Silver Ash stock. Bit hard to make a dark timber stain down to a pale timber though.

Mick

Garfield,

Your original request boils down to how "long is a piece of string?"
The whole of the finishing forum is devoted to different techniques and different finishes. Wander through it first and then ask for expanded explanation.

For example you are having trouble with biscuits joints. Seems to me there is someting wrong with your technique. Properly handled joints made with a biscuit cutter are usually in need of very little sanding. to align them The joints are almost self aligned. I do use biscuits from time to time but not on edge to edge joining. Properly prepared wood can be edge joined by a rubbing joint and this is where clamping techniques come into play.

Wood preparation is vital before a finish is applied. A finish, as you are discovering will magnify poor preparation. What tools you use in wood surface preparation and the effect they can have on a finish is another great area of discussion.

As to types of finish, again go through the finishing forum. I am a great believer in using shellac and in applying it with a rubber. Apart from my views ,there are plenty of differing points of view on how to apply it.

Wongo produced a thread on a foolproof wipeon finish to which I added some extra research. Again worth reading.

I have a compressor and spray guns but seldom use them because my workshop is too dusty and I haven't seen the necessity for a spray booth.

Just one small tip however that should be useful. Most finishes in cans are too thick. I find it better to use several thinned coats rather than a strraight out ot the can approach. Here again however you will find some who totally disagree with me.

My best starting advice is go ahead with the piece you are working on and ask specific questions. More important than that is not to expect to get all the answers at once. I've been woodworking for years and 'm still saying the same thing each time I finish a piece.
"I can see how next time I can improve on that."

That's woodwork

Jerry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Rarely, although a few years back I used to do a lot of mouldings for boats in Tas Oak or Meranti and stain them "maple". I'm not a huge fan of staining, but whatever the client is willing to pay for etc etc.:rolleyes: As far as my own stuff goes, well I'm fortunate? in that I've got more timber than time to use it. I have a fair range of colours as well, although I'm a bit lacking in really pale/blond timbers as I've used up most of my Silver Ash stock. Bit hard to make a dark timber stain down to a pale timber though.

Mick

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So you just like the natural finish of the wood on most of your work then....

I have soooo much to learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerryc

Garfield,

Your original request boils down to how "long is a piece of string?"
The whole of the finishing forum is devoted to different techniques and different finishes. Wander through it first and then ask for expanded explanation.

For example you are having trouble with biscuits joints. Seems to me there is someting wrong with your technique. Properly handled joints made with a biscuit cutter are usually in need of very little sanding. to align them The joints are almost self aligned. I do use biscuits from time to time but not on edge to edge joining. Properly prepared wood can be edge joined by a rubbing joint and this is where clamping techniques come into play.

Wood preparation is vital before a finish is applied. A finish, as you are discovering will magnify poor preparation. What tools you use in wood surface preparation and the effect they can have on a finish is another great area of discussion.

As to types of finish, again go through the finishing forum. I am a great believer in using shellac and in applying it with a rubber. Apart from my views ,there are plenty of differing points of view on how to apply it.

Wongo produced a thread on a foolproof wipeon finish to which I added some extra research. Again worth reading.

I have a compressor and spray guns but seldom use them because my workshop is too dusty and I haven't seen the necessity for a spray booth.

Just one small tip however that should be useful. Most finishes in cans are too thick. I find it better to use several thinned coats rather than a strraight out ot the can approach. Here again however you will find some who totally disagree with me.

My best starting advice is go ahead with the piece you are working on and ask specific questions. More important than that is not to expect to get all the answers at once. I've been woodworking for years and 'm still saying the same thing each time I finish a piece.
"I can see how next time I can improve on that."

That's woodwork

Jerry

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Jerry I'm just a novice wood worker still trying to learn the great art of building and finishing. I just thought I'd start this thread and see what different techniques others out there use and thought I could maybe pinch a bit from each one and try some of them together - or try each one individually and see which one might suit me in ease or appearance.

As for the biscuit joining, I know that I'm doing something wrong, and as I did another biscuit join last night and had the same problem I'll be posting a thread asking for help on that one in the wood working general forum. I wasn't asking for help on that in this thread, just making the point that I know now I over did it there in that area with the belt sander.

Regards
Geoff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garfield

So you just like the natural finish of the wood on most of your work then....

I have soooo much to learn.

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Well I'm pretty fortunate in that I've got a fair bit of really nice timber which has got plenty of colour. I do have a couple of utilitarian bits that I built years ago that I stained (with maple stain left from the boat building jobs:D). There's an aquarium stand/cabinet built completely from leftovers and scavenged stuff. Pine studs for the frame, pine lining boards for the panels and dressed pine for the door frames, plus the aquarium glass came from a shop fit job. I think I had to buy a fluro batten for the light box and a couple of gro light tubes. I stained it to disguise the mishmash of different pines and just to hide its pineyness. I also built an ironing board cabinet out of ply and it got the stain treatment also.

Generally I'll try to use a timber of whatever colour I'm after. But most people don't have access to a wide range of timbers and they're none of them cheap. There's nothing wrong with making stuff out of pine and staining it, especially as you're building your skills.

Mick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Well I'm pretty fortunate in that I've got a fair bit of really nice timber which has got plenty of colour. I do have a couple of utilitarian bits that I built years ago that I stained (with maple stain left from the boat building jobs:D). There's an aquarium stand/cabinet built completely from leftovers and scavenged stuff. Pine studs for the frame, pine lining boards for the panels and dressed pine for the door frames, plus the aquarium glass came from a shop fit job. I think I had to buy a fluro batten for the light box and a couple of gro light tubes. I stained it to disguise the mishmash of different pines and just to hide its pineyness. I also built an ironing board cabinet out of ply and it got the stain treatment also.

Generally I'll try to use a timber of whatever colour I'm after. But most people don't have access to a wide range of timbers and they're none of them cheap. There's nothing wrong with making stuff out of pine and staining it, especially as you're building your skills.

Mick

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Well I'm certainly trying to build my skills :U and this forum just helps out so much.

Thanks for your tips and technique Mick.

Geoff

Hi all,

Just a bit of a follow up to this thread.

Today I had the sand a piece to the unit I'm making and rather than hit it with the power sander I did it by hand. I started with a 80grit, 120, 240 and then finished off with a 320grit. I must say I ended up with a very smooth nice finish and after applying the stain it was completely different and a lot better than the rest of the unit.

So thanks to all for the tips.
Geoff

:2tsup::2tsup:

Pictures??:)

Please??:):wink::)

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Originally Posted by RufflyRustic

:2tsup::2tsup:

Pictures??:)

Please??:):wink::)

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I'll post some pictures tonight.