Shellac, tell me all you know!

Glourious thread....wow....interesting reading...but hope I haven't managed to open....I was going to say "can of worms"....but think in this case I should say...."bucket of bugs"....lol...:C

Yes.... information is the basis...how we apply the information is up to us...and what techniques we use...are drafted by our character & personal application of product.....I am thankful for the advice...& knowledge that you have all given. I do appreicate your time & wisdom, hoping that I can become a skill crafts woman....who can one day pass on her own knowledge gleaned from my experience with the gorgeous product....:rolleyes:

So smooth. so easy. so inexpensive................So......I'm off to shed to throw this bed together....looks bloody great....feels better...only bed that I can say..."bed feels good" and not even be laying in it! :U

"Sh..ED's waiting........."
KEKEMO:2tsup:

Silent C

I know Jeff, he is a very knowledgable finisher.

This is my 2 cents on the subject.

French Polishing is a much more refined process, it is much more complex and requires more time to complete the French Polish finish.

I have mentioned pumice and rottensrtone on the forum before, these rubbing and polishing powders are used in some of the French Polishing process.

Wheras, padding shellac is a fast process of applying a coating with a pad or rubber instead of using a brush to apply the coatings.

The reason he avoids the term "rubber" is because it is not used over here.

Regarding, making up the "pad", althrogh it is normally made as Jeff describes it, I personally use a 12" x 12" piece of either trace or cheese cloth to make up the entire ball, the cloth inside the ball makes up the resoirvour (sp) so I don't use the cotton batting as Jeff does. Its a matter of preference, I have been doing this for over 50 years.

It is commonly taught as a airplane landing and then taking off, it makes it easy to describe to the students.

Did Jeff mention about padding lacquers and varnishes., these other padding agents are done as the same as the French Polish or the padding lacquers.

There are sections on various lacquer application techniques but he doesn't mention padding. He talks about 'wiping varnish' but not padding - possibly the same thing but he uses a flat folded cloth, rather than a wadded ball.

What I wanted to point out was that he, as an American and a published author in finishing techniques, still uses the traditional form of pad for French polishing and only uses a pad similar to your own when padding shellac. He might not call it a rubber, but it is by no means a custom limited to the UK and Australia as you suggested.

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Originally Posted by MacS

I only sent the photo to show what the pads looks like, I am sure not many of you have ever seen a "pad" before, or I even heard of one.

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My my, aren't the poppies tall this year. :)

There are sections on various lacquer application techniques but he doesn't mention padding. He talks about 'wiping varnish' but not padding - possibly the same thing but he uses a flat folded cloth, rather than a wadded ball.

No, its not padding, it would be like what you would call "wipe on oil finishes."

What, I wanted to point out was that he, as an American and a published author in finishing techniques, still uses the traditional form of pad for French polishing and only uses a pad similar to your own when padding shellac. He might not call it a rubber, but it is by no means a custom limited to the UK and Australia as you suggested.

I am not familar with all the countries that use a "rubber", I think the French also do. Its very rare to see " french polishers" using a rubber over here unless they are transplants.

Personally, I favor knowing the technique over whatever pad or rubber someone uses to do their french polishing or padding with lacquers.

Bob,

Spot on.
When it gets to who's right and who's wrong I'm reminded of Jonathan Swift. Remember Gulliver's Travels? He had a delightful story of a war between the "Big enders" and the "Little enders". About what was the right way to crack a boiled egg.

Jerry

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

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I favor knowing the technique over whatever pad or rubber someone uses

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Well that would depend on whether or not you believe the technique is also comprised of the tools that are used. No doubt I could wave a piece of sponge or a scrunched up newspaper soaked in shellac in a manner imitating that used by French polishers but with dramatically poorer results. So you would have to concede that the form of the pad is important.

It then just remains to determine whether the traditional form of the rubber is more suited to the task than a wadded up ball of some material. I'm not expert enough to argue on that, so I'll leave that to others.

I'm also interested to note that your article makes no mention of the figure eight or circular movements that I usually associate with French polishing. Is that included as part of the technique, or is it also considered optional?

Mac

Can't help you with what the French name for a rubber is, I doubt it is "rubber" but the Spanish word is muneca which means rag doll.

Just an addition to the waves of viewpoint and information this thread has, and always does, generate.

Jerry

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Silent,

Your point about interrelation between tool and technique is a very valid one. Using an analogy from woodwork, although both work, a sharp chisel does the work better than a blunt one.

Jerry


Everyone is entitled to my opinion

You guys do it your way, i'll stay with the pad and do it my way.

I thought it might be interesting to some of you to know french polishing is also done with a pad, I already knew what a "rubber" was I am sure some did not.

Jerry C, your right about the Spanish name "muneca," I heard and read that term before in some french polishing instructions on guitars..

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I thought it might be interesting to some of you to know french polishing is also done with a pad

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If I wanted to be controversial, I'd say that it doesn't appear to me that your method as documented above is French polishing at all, but rather a type of hybrid padding method that borrows a bit from the full French polishing technique. Which is fine, because that's just as legitimate a finish as anything else but I wouldn't call it French polishing.

I have here at my desk three books that describe French polishing and all agree that "French polishing" consists of 'rubbing' the shellac into the pores of the wood using a pad called a 'rubber' that is made from some sort of absorbent core wrapped in a lint-free material. A fourth book (Jeff Jewitt), as already discussed, also describes the same method, with the exception that the author does not refer to the applicator as a rubber, preferring to call it a pad. So to my mind, the rubbing motion and the use of the rubber are integral to the technique.

Your technique of applying the shellac in straight strokes similar to an aeroplane landing and taking off is what Neil refers to in his book as 'the swooge coat'. Which is a preliminary coat that takes place prior to using the rubber. It is done with the 'fad' which ultimately becomes the core of the rubber when it is wrapped in linen.

Jeff Jewitt also describes a similar technique, which he calls 'padding shellac' where he applies the shellac using the same aeroplane analogy - but always with the grain. This is where, if I understand it correctly, your method varies from true French polishing, in which the rubber is moved in a circular pattern over the surface.

dontcha love it when a thread bottoms out and the discussion becomes over technical :D

I can't speak on a technical level because I'm a novice. I can only go by what I have read from the published experts. When there is a discrepancy between what I have read or understood and what someone else is telling me, I believe it's important to get to the heart of the misunderstanding. This is how we learn :)

Just curious,
If you dont use a rubber, how does a cloth fad hold enough polish to body up a 2 metre table without stopping half way to recharge, dont the whips harden up?
Astrid

Well Im going to add to the technical arguments by commenting that there is a marked difference in the chatoyance of the finish depending on the type of shellac in use. I bought some ruby, button, blonde and garnet flakes to see if there was a better way to do sunbursts than dyeing. I took my piece from my woodwork lesson the other night, a lap joint, aussie cedar, gave it a lick of BLO and started on one piece with blonde, the other with garnet. How I can see the difference is the depth of the chatoyance, the garnet is showing more light. This is sooooo cool. Im waiting for an opportunity to try the others now.

I also want to propose that we dont use the term French Polish as well, we arent French are we? Lets call it Aussie polish, Pommie Polish, Yank Polish, Kiwi Polish etc, etc. Do you think going to Glenbrook Polish, Moorabbin Polish, York Polish and Clinton Polish (maybe call it a Monica?) would be pushing it?
bang bang crash!..... :doh: