Questions on peg out for new house build

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Originally Posted by AlexS

I was so glad when AHD was introduced...or though t I would be. Unfortunately, there were so many other height data in use, that converting them to AHD was nigh impossible. One of my favourites was River Murray Lock Site Datum. After going through ancient documents and connecting to other known RMs, I came to the conclusion that it was created by the authorities deciding that at a particular time and date, the water level at any point on the Murray was (say) RL100.00' RMLSD.

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I feel your pain!

There are some interesting stories about, one I recall was an ex-Surveyor General of QLD who was nick named "six foot Kev" and it wasn't about his physical stature either. Some levelling mistakes your mates will never let you forget.

Or dealing with "mine grids." I recall seeking transformation parameters (for the non-surveyors - allows conversion from one grid to another, x,y,z offsets + rotation (if any)) from a colleague for the Phosphate Hill mine site. "Which one?" he replies "we know of at least seven, but there may be others, so do you know which one the plan you have is based on?" My reply, "Ah, No, you know because the engineer only photo copied the part he was interested in, and didn't get the important part as well (the title block with critical data like vert & Hz datum info)."

Arron, have you been given any info on the set out from your builder or their surveyor/s?

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Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Arron, have you been given any info on the set out from your builder or their surveyor/s?

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The position of the house with offset from boundaries will be on the site plan of the signed contract. The builder is not obliged to provide any more set out detail other than that on the plans however a lending authority may make it a condition of any loan. There is nothing stopping a client from asking for more detail but that would be a cordial agreement between builder and client unless it was a condition of the contract.

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Originally Posted by Arron

I ask because I would like to independently understand the process and get any shortcomings rectified before then.

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Originally Posted by rwbuild

The position of the house with offset from boundaries will be on the site plan of the signed contract. The builder is not obliged to provide any more set out detail other than that on the plans however a lending authority may make it a condition of any loan. There is nothing stopping a client from asking for more detail but that would be a cordial agreement between builder and client unless it was a condition of the contract.

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Yes, the setbacks, the lot building envelope, location of the building is shown on the building designers plans for the purpose of development / building approval, site setout etc however Arron was seeking to check that the process was progressing without confusion or mistakes in communication etc.

As the client he should receive a copy of any cadastral survey plans (identification survey) and a copy of the plan / sketch prepared by the surveyor who set out the building location on the lot.

Irrespective of any formal obligation, any builder worth their salt would provide copies of those plans to their client if they engaged the surveyor/s on behalf of the client or in the course of their contract with the client, firstly to allay any concerns and as proof that they are diligent in protecting their clients interests.

My father was a builder in Far North QLD for a couple of decades so I am very familiar with a builders perspective. The small things that keep the client confident that you are protecting their interests is well worth making the effort and pays off handsomely in building a sound relationship with the client and IF the chips do fall.

If a builder refuses to supply the surveyors building set out plan / sketch upon request, or cannot offer sufficient explanation as to the who & how the building location on the ground was arrived at, then as a client I would certainly have concerns about the process and the builders motivation/s. Saving on costs perhaps??

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Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Yes, the setbacks, the lot building envelope, location of the building is shown on the building designers plans for the purpose of development / building approval, site setout etc however Arron was seeking to check that the process was progressing without confusion or mistakes in communication etc.

As the client he should receive a copy of any cadastral survey plans (identification survey) and a copy of the plan / sketch prepared by the surveyor who set out the building location on the lot.

Irrespective of any formal obligation, any builder worth their salt would provide copies of those plans to their client if they engaged the surveyor/s on behalf of the client or in the course of their contract with the client, firstly to allay any concerns and as proof that they are diligent in protecting their clients interests.

My father was a builder in Far North QLD for a couple of decades so I am very familiar with a builders perspective. The small things that keep the client confident that you are protecting their interests is well worth making the effort and pays off handsomely IF the chips do fall.

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Sorry but I agree with Ray, it is a requirement of the Certifier to ensure the building is in the correct position as part of the slab inspection.The Certifier by law is engaged by the client, they cannot be engaged by the builder so the Certifier can confirm the formalities with the client.

The builder may like to show the client the peg out etc but can also say mind your own business. It gets up my nose that clients think it is a free for all and they are entitled to know everything that is going on. When you hand your building block over to your builder it is then a business workplace not yours and builders have been heavily penalised and even face jail sentences for injuries in their workplace.
How many other industries and professions allow their clients through the back doors into their workplace to see the ins and outs of what is going on and looking over the workers shoulder?

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Sorry but I agree with Ray, it is a requirement of the Certifier to ensure the building is in the correct position as part of the slab inspection.The Certifier by law is engaged by the client, they cannot be engaged by the builder so the Certifier can confirm the formalities with the client.

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Umm, not sure that is correct. Our Builder engaged the certifier and clearly arranges all the inspections to occur at the appropriate time. That scheduling can only be done efficiently by the Site Construction Manager to work in with the trades as per the project plan. In fact wouldn't it be the Builder's own Engineers that did the design that would need to certify it had been constructed to design? An onsite inspection by the Client (and possibly his agent, Quantity Surveyor or such) is allowed on site at various times during the build to check things are going to plan.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzie

Umm, not sure that is correct. Our Builder engaged the certifier and clearly arranges all the inspections to occur at the appropriate time. That scheduling can only be done efficiently by the Site Construction Manager to work in with the trades as per the project plan. In fact wouldn't it be the Builder's own Engineers that did the design that would need to certify it had been constructed to design? An onsite inspection by the Client (and possibly his agent, Quantity Surveyor or such) is allowed on site at various times during the build to check things are going to plan.

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Your builder may have arranged a Certifier that they are used to working with but they cannot legally engage them, you would of signed an agreement with the Certifier in the raft of documents you signed with the building contract so the legal obligation is Property Owner and Certifier but in the documentation you would of signed an authorisation that allows your builder to contact them to arrange inspection times on your behalf. This is done for efficiency and simplicity of coordination of inspections.
The engineer be they one the client or builder engaged to do the design will do a site inspection pre concrete pour to ensure it is structurally adequate as per their design but they are not interested in if it is in the correct position or correct size, that is why the surveyor is engaged.
The banks used to always do inspections before releasing funds but in the last 10ish years I have noticed they very rarely do them as they don’t want to be held responsible/ accountable for any inspections ( there has been litigation in this area) they do so instead have the client sign a document authorising the release of the funds and that they are satisfied the work has reached that stage.

There is is no issue with clients wanting to inspect their home during the building process but it needs to be done with the builders permission to ensure their safety. I had one client who repeatedly enter the building site without permission despite numerous requests for them to contact us first to arrange a viewing at a mutually acceptable time which is also a contractual condition in our contracts so we stopped work on their project until they gave a written undertaking that they would stop doing it. It did take 3 weeks of no work before he agreed ( he was a nutcase)

We must keep in mind that there are differences in procedural matters for building & development approval, inspections, certification, etc between states due to the differences in planning and development legislation. I have been attempting to keep my comments re the surveyors responsibilities & contributions in the building process as general as possible.

In NSW part of the certifiers responsibility is "check that all applicable preconditions for building or subdivision work are met before work starts or a certificate is issued." That may include "site surveys" where deemed necessary.

A certifier is competent to assess the planning / development / building application, and to conduct inspections at prescribed stages of construction. They are not competent to "certify" that the building or any development works are in the correct position relative to the cadastre (property boundaries) or in fact on the correct lot, that is not their role or responsibility. However they are responsible as part of their development application assessment for verifying that documentation, the surveyors plan/s *, accompanying the application does "certify" the proposed building / development works location, occupation on the correct lot etc.

The development application form and checklists contain a process flow chart for submission requirements.

* "Registered Site survey plans - prepared & signed by Registered Surveyor with Registration Number (A1 size, 1:200 scale)."


https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Asse...AEC1913FE.ashx

This is a handy reference about the surveyors role, particularly the section on "Identification surveys"

Consulting Surveyors NSW

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There are some interesting stories about, one I recall was an ex-Surveyor General of QLD who was nick named "six foot Kev" and it wasn't about his physical stature either. Some levelling mistakes your mates will never let you forget.

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That's even worse than an engineer I knew in Vic. who was nicknamed "Half-inch." This progressed to memos for him him addressed to "Mr. R. Finch."