Free energy, smoke and mirrors or BS?

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Originally Posted by Oldneweng

What it means is we are paying for the freight cost to shuffle them back and forth. They must be heavy.:D

Dean

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Not really but there's a lot of them.

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Originally Posted by BobL

The drift speed of free electrons in copper carrying about 10A is <mm/sec.
That means at 50Hz AC the electrons are moving at most<20 microns one way and then <20 microns the other.
In effect the electrons move 3/5ths of FA.

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Then how come nothing happens when I give the extension cord a good shake? Surely you should get heaps of power cos the electrons move a lot more than 20 microns then.

All this time I have been thinking I got value for my money because of all the electrons that I was using up and now I find out that I have been paying out good money and after all these years I basically have just the same electrons I started with. What a ripoff. Someone should demand a royal commission into this government scam.

Doug :U

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Originally Posted by doug3030

Then how come nothing happens when I give the extension cord a good shake? Surely you should get heaps of power cos the electrons move a lot more than 20 microns then.

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It's a Common misconception that the movement of electrons in a wire is the flow electricity whereas this is really an effect of applying an electrical potential to conductor.

There's no difference between the AC coming down the power lines and a broadcast electromagnetic signal coning out of a radio station aerial. At the radio receiver aerial the signal joggles the electrons back and forth and this is demodulated and amplified and converted to sound. There are no wires between the two aerials hence there is no way for electron transfer but energy has still travelled from the transmitter to the receiver.

The 50Hz AC electromagnetic wave that passes through or more like around a conductor does the same thing and just causes the electrons to move back and forth do they can be made to do useful work like heat water or move a coil in a magnetic field.

If you pick up an extension cord and shake it you're not make any electromagnetic waves in the wire so the electrons will not move.

This is not strictly correct because the extension cord wire may move through the earth's magnetic field and this can generate a few mV across the ends of an extension cord.
Because the earths magnetic field is so weak, to get Volts you would need to shake it very fast and it would be an extremely inefficient way to generate electricity.

Wireless electricity transmission is old technology. small cordless battery chargers like those used for mobiles is a current example that are designed for the phones to sit on top of the charger, but cordless 1000Hz AC transmitters that sit in the ceiling of every room in a house have been developed that can power most small electrical appliances wirelessly. These have not been implemented because they are still efficient and no one knows what they would do to humans in the long term.

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Originally Posted by BobL

There's no difference between the AC coming down the power lines and a broadcast electromagnetic signal coning out of a radio station aerial. At the radio receiver aerial the signal joggles the electrons back and forth and this is demodulated and amplified and converted to sound. There are no wires between the two aerials hence there is no way for electron transfer but energy has still travelled from the transmitter to the receiver.

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I guess that is proven by a crystal radio set...

However where does the magic smoke come into it all? We know the magic smoke makes stuff work, as I have often seen the magic smoke come out and things no longer werk... :D

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Originally Posted by .RC.

I guess that is proven by a crystal radio set...

However where does the magic smoke come into it all? We know the magic smoke makes stuff work, as I have often seen the magic smoke come out and things no longer werk... :D

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The magic smoke only comes out when stuff stops werking. I suspect that there is an energy change occurring deep inside and the energy that normally makes stuff werk is converted into magic smoke which is why it no longer werks. No more werk energy. Only magic smoke.

Dean

The magic smoke is actually the lubricant in the copper that lets the electrons move. Once it escapes, like an engine without oil, everything seizes up and stops moving.

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Originally Posted by Master Splinter

The magic smoke is actually the lubricant in the copper that lets the electrons move. Once it escapes, like an engine without oil, everything seizes up and stops moving.

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Ahh. No lube, lots of friction and you get heat. So that explains that aspect. What effect does the oxygen (or lack of) in the copper, have in this situation?

Maybe we should not go there. There be dragons.:C

Dean

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Originally Posted by BobL

There's no difference between the AC coming down the power lines and a broadcast electromagnetic signal coning out of a radio station aerial. At the radio receiver aerial the signal joggles the electrons back and forth and this is demodulated and amplified and converted to sound. There are no wires between the two aerials hence there is no way for electron transfer but energy has still travelled from the transmitter to the receiver.

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Never actually thought of it that way.... Now I wonder if I can create a device that could collect some of this electromagnetic energy and convert it back to electricity... If light is the same electromagnetic energy then maybe create a device to convert light into electricity, I might be on a winner here and fortune awaits...

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Originally Posted by .RC.

then maybe create a device to convert light into electricity, I might be on a winner here and fortune awaits...

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your a tad late RC..i think they call them solar panels

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Originally Posted by eskimo

your a tad late RC..i think they call them solar panels

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With all the work that Einstein did, his only nobel prize was for his paper on the photoelectric effect. No one believed his other theories!

Simon

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Originally Posted by simonl

With all the work that Einstein did, his only nobel prize was for his paper on the photoelectric effect. No one believed his other theories!

Simon

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If you can't even match a pair of socks can you blame other people for not having much faith in you?

Dean

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Originally Posted by Oldneweng

What effect does the oxygen (or lack of) in the copper, have in this situation?

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The less oxygen in your copper, the less opportunity you have for a fire to start in the copper when the electrons run out of lubricating smoke and come to a sudden stop (the friction creates heat). That's why most copper is sold as de-oxidised copper or oxygen-free copper - to meet fire regulations.