Tax

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Originally Posted by adrian

If he had one billion dollars worth of PBL shares he would earn $37 million a year from dividends. The company pays 30% tax and shareholders get that as franking credits so under the present system he would only have to pay the difference of 17% tax because he was on the top rate. So effectively he would be paying the same tax rate as a wage earner on less than $20,000.

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A slight correction. Most of this income will be channelled through a holding company, and being fully franked will not attract any income tax. Income tax payment will be deferred to the time the money is taken from the holding company, which will not happen before the sun turns green.

Rich people do not pay more than 30% tax. It is those that cannot afford the creative solutions that pay more.

The problem with the 10% scheme is that it does not work. First, 10% is not enough to keep the government income level. 20% is more likely to be right. Furthermore, it will not solve the problem of tax evasions - as long as the gains from evasion are larger than the costs, people will find tax evasion techniques. Another problem is that it is not necessarily fair. "Fairness" depends on your views. is it fair that I should pay more income tax than any other person just because I earn more? Is it fair that some extremely rich person will pay the same amount of tax for each dollar he uses for his laisure trips to Europe as I pay for essencials like bread, shelter or tools?

As for whos rich I am I dont make 50k a year but i've got a great wife Loving kids and two grandsons
not to mention a 7x6 meter workshop and a 7x6 meter storage shed
who could ask for more........ well maby a 10x10 meter workshop but then you always need a bigger shed


The trouble with life is there's no background music.

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Originally Posted by javali

Is it fair that some extremely rich person will pay the same amount of tax for each dollar he uses for his laisure trips to Europe as I pay for essencials like bread, shelter or tools?

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I believe it is fair. Don't forget, the high income earner would pay the same rate on his essentials as a middle or low income earner, what he does with what he earns above that is his good fortune (be it through luck or wise life choices).

I count myself rich in many ways, money is not one of them.

Jack.

I am really happy to be paying taxes, especially since i found that the government can afford to spend $5000 per chair for fat-asred cabinet ministers, most of whom are complete oxygen bandits and a waste of space. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Ashore

As for whos rich I am I dont make 50k a year but i've got a great wife Loving kids and two grandsons
not to mention a 7x6 meter workshop and a 7x6 meter storage shed
who could ask for more........ well maby a 10x10 meter workshop but then you always need a bigger shed


The trouble with life is there's no background music.

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Ashore, I couldn't agree more. All you need is plenty of Love :p and pocket money to buy toys err ... tools :D :D

Nic

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Originally Posted by Jack E

PS Adrian, I am not having a go at you but if you see the services provided by the government as necessary, why don't you pay tax?

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I wouldn't mind if you were having a go at me. I'm very thick skinned and don't mind debate. That's what this particular forum is all about. (Friendly discussion)
As for paying taxes. Even if I wanted to there is no way I would be allowed to. My finances are structured in such a way that the only thing that happens at tax time is the tax office sends money to me. The only way that I could pay taxes would be if the government required all companies to pay dividends out of pre-tax profits so that the tax burden would be transferred to the shareholders. It would be great for the government because a significant part of company profits would be taxed at 47c in the dollar for shareholders instead of 30c in the dollar for companies. Watch Packer, Murdoch, Lowey etc squeal if that ever happened. Not to mention superannuation funds.
I've never shirked my responsibility where tax is concerned. Every year at tax time, when I was working, I would claim my union fees and that was it. The tax office got maximum value out of me. I was paying more than twice the rate of tax that Packer and any other member of the non PAYE club pay.
My previous, rather long winded post was to try and point out why I am glad that we live in a rather egalitarian society. Far better in almost every way to any on the planet. One in all in.
I also give thanks that we live in a 'robin hood' type of society because user pays sucks. It's the catchcry of every capitalist who wanted to make a dollar.
We pay tax at different rates because we have the capacity to do so and it is necessary for our society to maintain that balance.
Poor people don't get a concession when they go to buy the groceries. If I buy milk it costs exactly the same as Packer's milk but I pay an infinitely larger percentage of my income in GST for it than he does. Higher rates of tax are a very clumsy way of evening out the burden.

PS. If rich people start paying 47c in the dollar I promise that I will too.

It seems that everyone has a different point of veiw to what costitutes being labeled "Rich", but nobody can point the finger on an exact amount.
It hit the papers last week in Perth, that a laborer is on 100k+ per year working on the construction of the south bound rail line.
I bet if you asked him, he wouldnt classify himself as being rich.

The current tax system is here to stay but i cant help but wonder what price is put on incentive....if any.
Rather than change the current income tax regime,i also use only some of the govt services on offer, i would prefer that "other" taxes like CGT and double dipping of super were abolished instead.

in my humble opinion student unions at uni are WOFTAM - i never nor my wife used any of thier facilities (mind you I was an adult and my wife was an O/S student so we didnt need all the bullshyte that undergrads seem to need to learn how to think...)

as far as taxes go see this thread for my opinion. I think i'm being reasonably fair in this post....

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&page=1&pp=15

Zed,

You have my vote, not only for your policies but also because everytime I see little johnny on tele I laugh, I think you would humour me also :D

Adrian,

Glad to hear that you are here for "friendly discussion" also. It is the "Have your say" forum afterall.
I am happy for you because you can hide your money, one day I hope to be able to achieve the same. Unfortunately for high income earners this is where the problem starts. The higher income earners hide their income, meaning the not as high earners pay alot of tax and then want to hide theirs.
As this has been going on for years and shows no hope of change I plan to do the same thing.

When it all boils down to it I do want to make a dollar and the less I have to pay to support others the better.

Jack.

Did anyone see the Darling Buds of May :D :D , not the garbage seppo version, the proper one, sums this up nicely ;)

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Originally Posted by adrian

Wage earners are the only ones who pay high taxes on high incomes.

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I seem to pay large amounts of tax on a low income.

Does anyone disagree that we live in the best country in the world and have it, generally, pretty damn good? When your on a good thing etc.

Can you imagine what would happen if most services the government offered were taken away? As would need to occur when gov income dropped. Disabilliy first, then children etc
As well as junkies trying to steal your tools for drugs there would be people trying to steal them to feed the children. viz America.

Hail Zed, omniiscient ruler of Australia.

One addendum: Companies to train apprentices in all fields.

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Originally Posted by Iain

Did anyone see the Darling Buds of May :D :D , not the garbage seppo version, the proper one, sums this up nicely ;)

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I saw that! SHE was the only actor/actress in that show, but others have told me there were a few other actors - I don't believe them....I can only remember HER - and have the retina burn to prove it!

Referring to Catherine Z J??? She can burn my retina's any time she likes :p

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Originally Posted by Iain

Referring to Catherine Z J??? She can burn my retina's any time she likes :p

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Of course, she was the only one in the series remember!