CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

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Originally Posted by RossM

Stupid parable - it has a fatal flaw.

The "10th man" will never pay his 60%. In fact he will just use his lawyers, tax accountants, trusts, offshore companies and banks domiciled in Ireland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caribbean etc etc to ensure that he looks just like the first 4 or 5 blokes in the list. To see the extent of this just look at Mossack Fonseca - one small law firm in one minor tax haven. over 200,000 companies implicated and tens of thousands of people from heads of state to low profile individuals, all avoiding contributing to the societies where this wealth is stripped.

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

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Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this applies, before even looking at the incomes of directors,doctors, lawyers etc just look at the plain old mine workers and the big tax dollars they pay.
The companies be they offshore or here are paying a flat rate of tax regardless of the income

Just saying.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by RossM

Stupid parable - it has a fatal flaw.

The "10th man" will never pay his 60%. In fact he will just use his lawyers, tax accountants, trusts, offshore companies and banks domiciled in Ireland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, the Caribbean etc etc to ensure that he looks just like the first 4 or 5 blokes in the list. To see the extent of this just look at Mossack Fonseca - one small law firm in one minor tax haven. over 200,000 companies implicated and tens of thousands of people from heads of state to low profile individuals, all avoiding contributing to the societies where this wealth is stripped.

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

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Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this applies, before even looking at the incomes of directors,doctors, lawyers etc just look at the plain old mine workers and the big tax dollars they pay.
The companies be they offshore or here are paying a flat rate of tax regardless of the income

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

What are the characteristics that make it so much more contagious then?

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BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

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Originally Posted by Tccp123

It must be a curse to be poor :(

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Originally Posted by Tccp123

In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

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When are you leaving?

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000.

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¿Que?


:D

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Originally Posted by RossM

You want to keep believing in fairy-tales - go on - but trickle down economics is an abject failure - proven many times over.

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...and if you're going to quote technical terms (i.e. trickle down economics) you should probably have some idea of what it means :)

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

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Not that it matters but do the post numbers vary with different platforms? Post number 1000 is NeilS on my iPad

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Not that it matters but do the post numbers vary with different platforms? Post number 1000 is NeilS on my iPad

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It is on mine too now (WindowsPC). Perhaps one of the members has had an offensive post removed?

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Your reply has a fatal flaw in that the parable is on PAYG tax to which there are many example where this applies

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Sorry Beardy, but your rebuttal has a fatal flaw. There is no mention of PAYG tax. They could indeed all be self employed.


This:
But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

is a flaw, confected to make the story work for the author (nothing particularly wrong with that). Who said they didn't have enough money, and why wouldn't they?

And this FINALLY popped up this morning.....

Suspected SARS virus and flu germs found in luggage: FBI report describes China'''s '''biosecurity risk'''

now, they jjjuuuuuusssstt have to join the dots.

-- WHERE did they get the samples
-- WHERE did the disease originate
-- WHAT was the precipitating event

Somebody in Wuhan walking this out of their BSL4 on the bottom of their foot.....

Come on media... its not too hard.... the information is out there. Its agonising how slow they are.

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Originally Posted by Greg Ward

Stir crazy old men
Isolation forum frustration relief

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Agreed. Lets start a competition!

Dovetails? A technical thing like a puzzle or precision/artistic challenge?

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

BINGO !

FenceFurniture made post #1,000. Highly appropriate. OP.

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From what I can see RossM got post number 1000 :no: :doh:

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Originally Posted by doug3030

From what I can see RossM got post number 1000 :no: :doh:

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Yes I suspect it's the mods at work deleting a member's offensive posts. If they get all of them I suspect the total number of posts might shrink to below 600...

RossM got it on my computer too. Congratulations, have an elephant stamp. :D:2tsup: Sorry couldn't find one.

Crikey. You boys wouldn't make very good detectives. All the info is there.

:roflmao2:

Like I say, we need to have a bit fun. The trolls are in a spin.....they can smell it.......but they just can't see it.

Hey I'm now the winner!! FF put me onto it. It's socialism being put to work! We're all going to get turns at being the winner! What a great concept!

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Crikey. You boys wouldn't make very good detectives. All the info is there.

:roflmao2:

Like I say, we need to have a bit fun. The trolls are in a spin.....they can smell it.......but they just can't see it.

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Brilliant, FenceFurniture.

Deleting your post #1000 was a masterstroke. Not quite the same as hiding it in plain sight!

Ah bin waitin 10 years to use this.

:gotcha:



:clown:

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Sorry Beardy, but your rebuttal has a fatal flaw. There is no mention of PAYG tax. They could indeed all be self employed.


This:
But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

is a flaw, confected to make the story work for the author (nothing particularly wrong with that). Who said they didn't have enough money, and why wouldn't they?

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If you are self employed ie a sole trader you still fall under the PAYG tax scheme or if you are self employed as in run your own PTY LTD company you are still employed by that company and subject to PAYG tax so it is irrelevant, the same scale of taxation applies regardless

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Originally Posted by Beardy

If you are self employed ie a sole trader you still fall under the PAYG tax scheme or if you are self employed as in run your own PTY LTD company you are still employed by that company and subject to PAYG tax so it is irrelevant, the same scale of taxation applies regardless

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Ahh, that's probably a "nope". The story comes from the USA, so is based on whatever their tax system/self employed system/company system is - certainly different to ours to some extent.

The first clue was the tax rate of 59% - I've never see a rate that high here, but you only had to click on the link in the original post here to see it goes an American site that published it in 2008.

Anyhoo, as you say, it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread.

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread.

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...

I visit this thread occasionally to see what's going on, and occasionally is definitely too often! :D

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Ahh, that's probably a "nope". The story comes from the USA, so is based on whatever their tax system/self employed system/company system is - certainly different to ours to some extent.

The first clue was the tax rate of 59% - I've never see a rate that high here, but you only had to click on the link in the original post here to see it goes an American site that published it in 2008.

Anyhoo, as you say, it's irrelevant, and certainly is irrelevant to this thread.

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Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokies

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokies

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Thank you Beardy, a breath of sanity. I couldn't have summed it up better:

1) The principle of the parable does not change
2) I don’t know why people don’t like the truth (me either!)
3) I am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do. The more the merrier!

I don't really want to spend the time going back through this thread to find the reference or references from posters quoting John Hopkins as a primary source, but according to Worldometer, John Hopkins source their data from the Worldometer database.
source: Worldometer - About us
quote: Worldometer's Covid-19 data is trusted and used by Johns Hopkins CSSE, Financial Times, The New York Times, Business Insider, and many others.

not that it really matters.







Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?

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Originally Posted by ian

Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?

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No I haven't noticed. But it would not surprise me if he is with the burden he is carrying right now. I would be more concerned if I noticed that he is fresh, carefree and relaxed. That surely would not be a good sign.

It wouldn't matter who was PM at the moment, who ever it is would be under enormous pressure, also all those who have the responsibility of advising, developing strategies and most of all the front line medical personnel, it won't hurt a few people here to take a chill pill and display a bit more respect, no one is perfect but everyone is trying their best regardless of anyone's particular view.

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Originally Posted by Beardy

Mate your response is like a politicians one playing with semantics. Play with the tax rate percentages all you like, the principal of the parable does not change.
I don’t know why people don’t like the truth, I for one am quite happy they pay/generate all the tax they do, I don’t know where else we are going to get it from bar smokes and pokies

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Nah, I'm not disagreeing with the basic principle at all. I was only pointing that you rebuttal was based on it being PAYG tax in Australia, where it's actually based on the USA system - whatever that is (and the first clue for me to that was the 59% rate). That's all - I have no other argument with it. It's a bit lame, but....

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Originally Posted by ian

I don't really want to spend the time going back through this thread to find the reference or references from posters quoting John Hopkins as a primary source, but according to Worldometer, John Hopkins source their data from the Worldometer database.

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Thanks Ian. I've just been sent another important Covid-19 study result done by JHU:

Study: COVID-19 Impacts Men, Women More Than All Other Genders Combined | The Babylon Bee

A week ago, who would have thought hat a Liberal PM would come out with this much cred
Prime Minister Scott Morrison to spend $130 billion on wages scheme to support jobs during coronavirus pandemic - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Bravo.
Well done, Scott.



Now to sort out a good plan for people paying rent

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Originally Posted by ian

Has anyone else noticed that Scott from Marketing is starting to look a little the worse for wear in the last few days?

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I don't think I've watched him for about 3 days, but I'll bet he's not sleeping too well. Damned tough job at the moment, and probably about as tough as the front line medical staff, but in a different way. That doesn't change the fact that he was slow on the uptake, which has made it more difficult than it needed to be, but yeah, very stressful time for him and the Cabinet.

It might be the making of him as a PM actually, especially if we can continue in what appears to be a relatively good position, compared to other countries. In the last 48 hours the USA has increased cases by 32% (which is less than doubling every 3 days), and ours have increased by 25%. Deaths for USA (3170) up 45%, Aust (18) 12½%.

An increase of 26% per day results in doubling every three days.

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Originally Posted by ian

Now to sort out a good plan for people paying rent

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Well if the job retention/wages scheme works out well then surely that will greatly reduce the need for rent relief.

A message at 11am Sunday was what prompted me to post :lockd: on Sunday. We had to fill in a risk assessment for working from home and fill in a capability inventory. Monday we were told, if possible to work from home. News last night basically confirmed it - even the Police Commissioner Referred to it as a lock down this afternoon.
However an email this afternoon has me wondering. Summarised as follows: schools, TAFE and Unis are considered to be essential services therefore they are to stay open. All the new rules eg. 2 persons max etc don’t apply. Basically the only one mentioned was the 1.5m rule.
So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???
Hopefully someone will clarify this tomorrow.

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

According to their last financial report (2019) they lost about $1,000 million in the previous two years, and had balance day "interest-bearing liabilities - bank loans and bonds - of just over $3,000 million. Because they are not trading profitably they must borrow even more just to pay the interest!

Last week they had a market capitalisation of around $600 million. With debt of $3,000 mill their debt:equity ratio is a staggering 5:1. This is well into junk bond territory. Any D:E ratio above 2:1 is usually viewed as adventurous. And the company owes another $1,700 mill to its clients for airfares paid in advance.

And the company has virtually no collateral - almost all its aircraft are leased. Oh, and the lease payments must still continue even though the fleet is not flying.

And they want a loan of $1,400 milllion, even though they have virtually zero ability to make interest payments in the foreseeable future or to may loan repayments. If approved it will become a grant, not a loan - shall we call it a zero interest non-repayable loan?

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

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Dont forget the fat bonuses to all the executive.....

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

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I read that too, and they're taking quotes out of the climate change industry playbook to support their case saying they are at a "tipping point" (and possibly even in unchartered waters)...

Is it also true that Qantas has its hand out for $4.5 billion too?

Maybe we can't afford air travel? Perhaps we could go back to coal powered steam ships... oh,oh..we knocked that on the head, didn't we?

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Originally Posted by GraemeCook

As predicted, Virgin Airlines has started rattling the begging bowl for a staggering $1,400 million. Must admire their chutzpah.

According to their last financial report (2019) they lost about $1,000 million in the previous two years, and had balance day "interest-bearing liabilities - bank loans and bonds - of just over $3,000 million. Because they are not trading profitably they must borrow even more just to pay the interest!

Last week they had a market capitalisation of around $600 million. With debt of $3,000 mill their debt:equity ratio is a staggering 5:1. This is well into junk bond territory. Any D:E ratio above 2:1 is usually viewed as adventurous. And the company owes another $1,700 mill to its clients for airfares paid in advance.

And the company has virtually no collateral - almost all its aircraft are leased. Oh, and the lease payments must still continue even though the fleet is not flying.

And they want a loan of $1,400 milllion, even though they have virtually zero ability to make interest payments in the foreseeable future or to may loan repayments. If approved it will become a grant, not a loan - shall we call it a zero interest non-repayable loan?

Virgin has about 10,000 employees; That $1,400 mill amounts to $140,000 per job.

Pure chutzpah.

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I believe the appropriate term is "a zero interest non-recourse loan" a.k.a. a gift
But $140,000 per job is more than a bit steep.

Standard and Poors have currently rated Virgin Australia at CCC, with a 12 month outlook of CCC- .
I'm not sure how far that places the airline's borrowings into Junk bond territory.


However, I wouldn't be too unhappy if the AUS Government decided to take a controlling equity position in the company.

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Originally Posted by Lappa

So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???

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At Western Sydney Uni it seems to definitely be wfh - the campus was closed yesterday, but the eLearning crowd have been wfh for a week and a half. Not sure about Macquarie Uni, but I think it's the same. Lola is wfh for both Unis, and for one of them (Mac) that means teaching face to face screen to screen. The other job is online content development anyway, so wfh hardly matters. They have lots of Zoom meetings.

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Originally Posted by Lappa

A message at 11am Sunday was what prompted me to post :lockd: on Sunday. We had to fill in a risk assessment for working from home and fill in a capability inventory. Monday we were told, if possible to work from home. News last night basically confirmed it - even the Police Commissioner Referred to it as a lock down this afternoon.

However an email this afternoon has me wondering. Summarised as follows: schools, TAFE and Unis are considered to be essential services therefore they are to stay open. All the new rules eg. 2 persons max etc don’t apply. Basically the only one mentioned was the 1.5m rule.
So, is it work from home, work from work, online classes, actual classes ???
Hopefully someone will clarify this tomorrow.

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I don't really know, but at my son's school (admittedly the school is in Alberta) -- it's teachers work from their classrooms via video link while the kids have been told to stay at home.


hopefully something sensible will be sorted.

They ”want” us the use Micro$aft Teams :(
The problem is we all have desk top PCs without cameras and microphones. All ordered but long delay on supply due to demand.

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Originally Posted by Lappa

They ”want” us the use Micro$aft Teams :(

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I thought that your classes were >50% hands on learning.

I can't see how MS Teams (which is designed for on-line SOFTWARE collaboration) would be at all suitable.