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It won't work. Give everyone the money and let them make their own choices. If they choose a coffee hit first thing in the morning on their $1,400 Italian espresso machine over a loaf of bread then that's their choice. Or they can make a mortgage payment if they wish. But heaven help them if they then come cap in hand asking for another handout!
OK, you guys have convinced me. I now require the 2 x $750 payments because the casino will eventually re-open and I do enjoy freerolling (not to be confused with freeballing!). :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
Thank you for your contribution, my memory may be wrong but I thought anyone that lodged a tax return the previous year got paid money.
FYI I pay a substantial amount of money in tax, I don’t judge how the money is spent. I actually enjoy living in a social that allows me to walk outside without fear for my personal safety.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
I agree with the last part. The government shouldn't be bailing out the corporates, including the banks. I agree that the government shouldn't be handing out money to anyone. I also believe that the market should determe the interest rate - not be manipulated by central banks - which is the cause of most of the mess we are in.
Just some light relief
Warning lots of rude words.
Well actually just one starting with F.
Cheers Matt.
Self awareness lol - Matthew Phillips | Facebook
What I make of that is that the article failed to include the qualifying words, "worst-case scenario" or other highly relevant caveats.Quote:
Originally Posted by riverbuilder
viz: Assoc Professor Flasche at School of Tropical Medicine in London said "it was difficult to predict how the spread of coronavirus would escalate in Indonesia in the coming weeks, without knowing what measures were put in place to contain the virus".
When asked about the possibility of 1 million cases in Indonesia by the end of April, he said given the size of Indonesia's population it "may make a semi-reasonable, worst-case scenario". Source.
There are too many flaws in the article to have any credence, like stating that "modelling by Indonesian researchers suggests half the nation’s 275 million people could be infected in the next few months", without citing where that came or any qualification that might have been included by the researchers, then using the interview by ABC journalists with Prof Flasche to give those 'estimates' validity, yet Flasche gives a worst-case scenario of 1m by the end of April and also a caveat about what measures Indonesia might put in place to contain the virus.
The Indonesians are not lab rats that have no agency in this crisis. Although late to respond, they will and in their own fashion.
I agree with Graeme, lazy and shoddy 'so-called' journalism! Reading her profile has said it all for me... "She is a news reporter for news.com.au but also has a penchant for crime and the bizarre"!
There is no doubt that Indonesia does have major challenges ahead, but the last thing they need is this type of sensationalism from the south. If News would like to focus on a near neighbour they can stop fretting over a popular tourist destination for Australians, like Bali, and turn their attention to PNG for which we have some responsibility. The challenges there will be a magnitude more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicity
Ah . . . . linka, she's notta working'a
There’s some clever people out there
YouTube
Too many video calls to the old country recently Bob?Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Is that a change of mind or does the “anyone” above mean other that individuals ?Quote:
Originally Posted by DomAU
In Post #758 you say all should get a handout .
Not criticising, just interested in the discussion on handouts and a range of views.
I don’t get it now as I’m working but if I’d retired two years ago I would be getting it even though I’d be on similar monies.
Who has asked for a handout?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
Umm. Nor for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Regards
Paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Sounds like a Ferengi Rule of Acquisition... #213 Never turn down a handout.
so, from this I can conclude that you work for the Government in an occupation deemed in the current environment "essential".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuffy
yes, or no?
If no, and I seem to recall you mentioning in the past week that you work for a truss manufacturer, what will you do when the economy tanks and no houses are being built? What will your weekly wage be in 4-6 week's time when the coronavirus unemployment peak hits? Will you be able to afford your mortgage (or rent) along with food and utilities?
People can't secure a mortgage to buy a new house when they are "temporarily unemployed" or on reduced hours and at current projections that will be about 50% of the entire workforce.
Just re loadedQuote:
Originally Posted by BobL
Cheers Matt.
My mate has gaming and prize machines in clubs, pubs, milk bars etc and he said his takings went up 50% for two weeks after the last cash stimulus handoutQuote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
Just popping out to the shops honey,
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5554543ca4.jpg
Cheers Matt.
I don't think I'd read a whole lot into that because there are people who will always spend money on that sort of thing, but I don't think they are all that big a percentage of the population. And just because they blow it on slot machines doesn't mean the stimulus won't work in the broader community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
Nice little seething hot bed of infection going on here
DTs Maralago resort is just above where it says Miami in Florida - nice little hot spot developing
Attachment 470588
Forrest, I think that your memory might be faulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestmount
My memory is that Rudd's "cash splash" was based on welfare recipients and those tax payers who lodged a tax return showing taxable earnings less than some amount.
and it didn't matter when the matter when the return was lodged -- I recall a case where a tax payer received the "splash" several years after it was legislated.
after a bit of Googling source: The RD Guide To The 2009 Australian Government Stimulus Package Handouts - Insurance Articles - Rate Detective
How much will you get [from the Rudd "cash splash"]?
Depending on what your total income from all sources was last year [2007-2008 tax return]. The payment will be:
- $900 if your taxable income is up to and including $80,000
- $600 if your taxable income is between $80,001 and $90,000, and
- $250 if your taxable income is between $90,001 and $100,000.
If you earned more than $100,000 last year you won't receive a benefit payment.
Well, not quite WP. Those that are shortening their lives can very often become a huge medical burden in the years before they are fully pickled. Even more so for smokers, and cigarettes are mostly made within Oz too.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
Pubs and clubs are all closed. What's a milk bar?
Yes the stimulus worked fine for him and Jerry Harvey :) along with many others but that is what they intended to happen anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Not to mention, motor vehicle accidents, domestic and other violence, including the cost of policing all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
I was only 26 and only working the one job back then most definitely not earning over 100k.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
Wait up you said my memory might be faulty [emoji46]. This could be harder to fix than most things...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
They are those places that don’t sell milk anymore :UQuote:
Originally Posted by GraemeCook
Things change fast in the testing space.
Here the list ranked in terms of most numbers of tests
Attachment 470589
But there's a BIG difference between #tests and tests per capita.
On this list USA and Russia are last, whereas Korea/Spain/AUS are at the top
Suggest taking the Chinese and Russian numbers with significant pinches of Salt.
We're lucky we're still at 17 positive cases/capita - still have a chance if social distancing can be enforced.
I bet all the illegal drug dealers will be all stocked up and ready to capitalise on the windfall. No taxes going back to the government on the first transaction in that chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
And even the USA figures, given that many of their tests were useless. Wwho knows how many false -ves are in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
This is just one reason why Boris Johnson is an idiot (and a dangerous one too, just like Trump):
from a few weeks ago:
"I’m shaking hands continuously. I was at a hospital the other night where there were actually some Coronavirus patients & I shook hands with everybody. People can make up their own mind but I think it’s very important to keep shaking hands."
Wonder what he thinks now.
I don't work for the government. I currently work building roof trusses. I won't speculate as to what my wage will be in 4-6 weeks time because it would be a blind guess at this point. So long as it is minimum wage, then I'll be no worse off. I guess that's one of the perks of actually working for SFAQuote:
Originally Posted by ian
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL
I am becoming increasingly optimistic, Bob, and the indications are that policies are starting to work. However, all of us, must be increasingly vigilant to ensure the measures are fully enforced and retained long enough not to be self defeating.
Those idiots photographed in most newspapers this morning, especially The Australian, are a serious worry. Also a worry is the editorial stance of The Australian which increasingly seems to be arguing the case for business over human lives.
Here are the official Australian government figures for daily new cases of the virus. Of critical importance is that there has been no growth in daily new cases for four days - ie the exponential growth rate in infections has been stalled.
Attachment 470591
And the same figures from Worldometers. I have absolutely no idea why there is a disparity in the figures. Worldometers say that they source data from host government ind international agencies, but do not actually identify sources.
Attachment 470592[Source:
[Source: Australia Coronavirus: 3,573 Cases and 14 Deaths - Worldometer ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy
Thank you! I rest my case your honour!
I don't think it is clear what your case is, apart from not giving stimulus payments for purposes or goods you don't approve of, or to people you don't approve of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tccp123
Some statistics that I think would be useful for comparing Australia to the rest of the world would be how many people returned here from overseas (and where from) in the last 6 weeks in comparison to other countries who have a lot of travellers. Expressed per capita in relation to infections could tell a particular story.
Even on the same day it depends on exactly when the data is sampled by the webpages displaying the data as the government data doesn't always come in from all the states/regions at the same time, so some data falls on one day and some fall across onto another.Quote:
Originally Posted by GraemeCook
EG
DATA source A might have the latest data for 4 of the 5 states
DATA Source B might have only the latest data from 2 of the 5 states.
This is something else they all need to agree on ie every country will publish its daily data at a specific world time.
I agree the US data is suss.
Because of the Schengen agreement in Europe that would have been impossible to determine until borders were closed and even now I doubt they are recording traveller origins.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
A bit of history...
This week economist John Quiggin lamented the fact that Kevin Rudd doesn’t get more credit for economic management, given the fact that Australia came through the global financial crisis in solid shape and has avoided a recession. This is a common source of puzzlement amongst some, but let me solve this apparent conundrum.
The first thing to note is that Rudd’s economic management did not, in fact, save Australia from the fate that befell other countries. European countries have not been in crisis because they did not have him at the helm; the US did not suffer an economic disaster because it wanted for a Wayne Swan when the crisis hit. Greece and other countries are not in economic catastrophe mode simply because they failed to send out $900 cheques to their citizens.
The simple fact is that all of these countries went into the disaster-zone in 2008 because when the global financial crisis hurricane hit, they had high government debt and high budget deficits, which made them extremely vulnerable to adverse shocks. Had any one of these countries’ governments faced the crisis with zero government debt and consistent budget surpluses, they would have been considered pillars of strength rather than sources of weakness. What those European countries wanted for, in other words, was Australian treasurer Peter Costello running their budgets in the long lead-up to 2008.
Australia hit the 2008 crisis in rude financial health: debt-free, growing strongly with significant assets and running surplus budgets. It is these robust foundations, along with very favourable terms of trade, which guaranteed that Australia would survive the crisis in very good shape.
Just prior to the crisis, reserve bank governor Glenn Stevens drew attention to the magnificent financial position built up over more than a decade by Costello, saying that “the capacity to respond, if need be, to developments in the future is virtually without peer.” Little did he know at the time, but three months later that position of economic strength would be tested in the most dramatic fashion.
The pre-existing strength of the Australian government’s finances were to prove a bulwark against the economic storm and investors, businesspeople, consumers and financial markets were greatly reassured by the strength of the Australian economy. On top of those firm foundations, each political party in Australia was in the wonderful position of being able to offer stimulus packages drawing on these sound finances. People will debate the merits of the respective stimulus packages, but with its strong terms of trade, Australia was foreordained to outperform other countries once the storm hit, and foreordained to receive accolades from the International Monetary Fund for doing so.
The most important lesson about the global financial crisis is not about what happened after it hit but in what happened in the lead-up, and this can be summarised simply: don’t put your country into a zone of financial vulnerability.
How did so many leaders allow their countries to drift into that zone? They tried to explain that rising debt levels were not unreasonable compared to other countries. When quizzed about growing budget deficits in the UK, for example, chancellor of the exchequer Gordon Brown would always point out that Britain’s government debt and deficit levels were reasonable when one looked at other comparable countries. “Net debt is now 47% of national income in France, 47% in America, in Germany 62%, in Japan 83% and in Italy over 100% – but this year in Britain 36.4%,” Brown said in 2006 as he revealed yet another gradual economic deterioration.
Of course, Brown’s reassuring words masked a position of disastrous weakness, and this weakness only became evident when the crisis sent the British economy into a tailspin from which it has still not recovered.
The next time you hear mollifying words from Rudd that our rising debt levels are at reasonable levels compared to other countries, think about how Britons were lulled into the financial danger zone and ask yourself: are we on the same trajectory?
There are some excellent figures showing number of travellers send origins for 2019. Unfortunately the only stats. for 2020 are for January (published 16/3/2020) but they only show numbers, not origin.
Came across this from a report in the Daily Telegraph today.
Attachment 470603
Well said Tccp123
Those who can't see that probably run their own finances the same way a poorly run country runs theirs - with all the credit cards and loans maxxed out.