no anzac day holliday

As workers we should get a set number of public holidays per year.

If we wish to name these public holidays such as Christmas day, Queen's birthday, Anzac day etc that's fine but give them to us all the same.

Some clowns have said that if you don't think the Queen should be our monarch then you should go to work on that day or if you are not a Christian then you should not take Christmas day. I say to those clowns, think yourself lucky that we name the public holiday after your soap box topic - if you keep up your toxic talk the day should be named something else.

Money centric selfish small minded employers take every opportunity to deny their workers including coming up with things like "if it doesn't fall on the day...." Good on you scrooges - your employees probably think the same about you as you think about them. Leads to a great working relationship that sort of attitude :no:

Call all the public holidays by some other name if some sectors of the community think they can profit if those days fall on a weekend. Give workers set public holidays.

As long as I can remember, and that's more than twice the time you've been alive Weisy, ANZAC day itself has been the gazetted public holiday. Only when ANZAC day fell on Sunday was Monday the public holiday and the day used for the ANZAC parade – the reason being that you were supposed to go to church on Sunday and not get blotto with your old mates

And I don't agree with the very recent take over of ANZAC day by corporate sport


ian

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Originally Posted by Christopha

Anzac Day, no matter what day of the week, is a day of remberance NOT an excuse for another day off. It is a day to remember those Australians who died for the freedoms we have and for some member to suggest that we need a day off as well is ungrateful, unfeeling, disgusting and UNAUSTRALIAN!
Silentc, you should be ashamed.

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Emotive claptrap, Doorstop. Why doesn't it surprise me that you would go off half-cocked?

So you'll be going to work on Monday the 26th next year will you?

Wood Borer has hit the nail on the head.

Bugger, I just tracked down the CAF bulletin about it and the 'harmonisation' agreement only applies to when the 25th falls on a Sunday. So it's situation normal if it's a Saturday. I'll pull my head in now...

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Originally Posted by Vernonv

You guys could always move to somewhere like China ... then you wouldn't have any of those pesky labor problems. :roll::U

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Probley.

The way I work now is at a hourly rate.

If I work, I get paid.
If I don't work, I don't get paid.
I make provision for my own holidays.
I make provision for my own sick leave/medical expenses.
I make provision for my own work, liability, disability insurance.
I make provision for my own transport.
I make provision for my own tools.

If I don't want to work on a particular day, I say so, but I also don't expect to get paid for it.

If somebody wants me to work at some unreasonable time that is not convenient to me & they offer to pay a premium for the time & if we can come to an agreement what that premium is to be, then I will work.
If I was an employee asked to work at unreasonable hours I would get paid extra for it but since I am in fact a Sole Trader, I guess that just makes me a greedy bastard. :D

I am SO glad that I don't employ anybody any more. :2tsup:

I bet they are too. :D

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Originally Posted by silentC

Emotive claptrap, Doorstop. Why doesn't it surprise me that you would go off half-cocked?

So you'll be going to work on Monday the 26th next year will you?

Wood Borer has hit the nail on the head.

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I'm really disappointed in you Silent, I had expected a better from you

to repost part of my earlier post

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Originally Posted by ian

As long as I can remember, ANZAC day itself has been the gazetted public holiday.
Only when ANZAC day fell on Sunday was Monday the public holiday and the day used for the ANZAC Day parade – the reason being that you were supposed to go to church on Sunday and not get blotto after marching with your old mates

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ian

It seems that this thread has now become a "Boss vs Workers" debate rather than a reasoned argument as to whether ANZAC Day should have an accompanying day off when it falls on a Saturday, so I'm happy to join in.
As I tell all my politically motivated mates,
No bosses, no workers, and, no workers, no bosses.
In other words, we need each other, so, for Gawd's sake, give it a bloody rest.
On April 25th 1915, Australians and Kiwis, UNDER THE COMMAND OF THE POMMIES, were sent ashore against the Turks, and got shot to the s...house.
We remember the guts and determination, not the folly of war, and I,for one, couldn't give a tinkers cuss if we have an extra day off or not.
And, thanks for the quote from Kemal Attaturk,unattributed in a previous post.
If the enemy commander could show such respect, surely it behoves is to do so too, and withouit the rancour.
LEST WE FORGET.

I'm as in awe of what those men and women did as anyone. I have a bit of an interest in the two great wars from an historical perspective. I've read books about them. I can empathise with how people felt about leaving their loved ones, or seeing them sail away, maybe never to return. I get it, OK? Like I said, I don't need a special day to be appreciative of what they did. God forbid that I ever have to see my son or daughter do it. I'm probably too old now to have to ever do it myself.

Nobody is questioning the validity of the day. The debate is about whether we should have a public holiday that everyone can benefit from to mark the occasion. I agree with Wood Borer's stance on it. I think we should have a set number of public holidays and they should fall on a weekday.

People can call me un-Australian or whatever they like, it really doesn't bother me, because I know how I feel about it and their opinion doesn't matter to me. All it says to me is that they have completely missed the point.

My question stands: will those who say we don't need a day off to mark ANZAC day be going to work on Monday 26th next year?

What I find offensive is that people would use the memory of the ANZACs (or call someone unaustralian or disgusting or whatever) to belittle them just because they would like a public holiday.:roll:

No one has said the we shouldn't celebrate/remember the ANZACs on ANZAC day, all they are saying is that they want the public holiday.

I want a public holiday.

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Originally Posted by Lignin

...No bosses, no workers, and, no workers, no bosses.....

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Yes but... when I had employees I put in a LOT more hours that they did that is for sure.... workers... puh!

Courageous acts, blood and guts determination, sacrifices are recognised. Let's not kid ourselves though, I doubt if anyone can wholly appreciate the efforts of those we commerate on ANZAC day unless we were there.

To hijack the day to push your own political agenda or to seal an argument to me is worse than ignoring the day. There are many groups who greedily use this tactic.

People who fought and those who fought and died had a wide range of political views, religious views and all sorts of other views. They were not all old fuddy duddy hetrosexual right winged Christian monarchists who condenmed unions and workers rights. No matter what their views or preferences, their actions were all equally commendable.

Just because a member of a group or a political party commemorates this day doesn't mean we all have to vote for their party or agree with their views for fear of being un-Australian. Those sorts of people upset me greatly and I feel should be publicly disgraced and removed from office for such a low and disgusting act.

I personally don't attend services on ANZAC however it doesn't in any way mean that I don't respect the actions of my grandfather, my father or my uncles who between them fought for Australia in the trenches of France during WWI and in Europe, the Pacific and Darwin during WWII. We all commerate the day in own way.

The one who paid the ultimate sacrifice after being shot down over Germany I have learnt was a fun loving practical joker who enjoyed a beer and a fair go for all. Like many of his mates, he wasn't some boring straight laced conservative - he was there to do what he thought was the right thing and to have a bit of fun at the same time. This he achieved but unfortunately didn't make it home.

I'll have a beer and tell a few jokes for my Uncle Bill, my other uncles, my grandfather and my father on ANZAC day rather than be forbidden from wearing their medals publicly and lectured by some loud mouthed pompous lunatic with tear jerker military music being played in the background.

sorry guys, i'm one of those workers who in the past has had to work a sunday just so i can have the monday off so i can go to the dawn service and spend the morning at the local RSL. i have my 2 beers a sit down brecky, and have a couple of yarns with all walks of life. i then go home by 10am (i am not a gambler,but i have nothing against it) then i strike up my victor and quickly do the front lawn. then the kids and wife come with me and we go conoeing or bike rideing or bushwalking as a family. i would like to add at this point that i will be doing that again this year (at logan in Queensland, we travel to different places each year.) i dont need a public holiday gassetted to me by govenment to enjoy a day that these blokes just did their job for. and as a result of their hard work we in principal have what most consider a free country. i have no reletive that i know that went over and faught, i just think WOW!! WHAT AN EXTRODONARY JOB THEY DID. i wonder if anyone here knows about the renumeration that these guys and the spouses got for doing that job. i do know a little about it because at ANZAC breackfest i bother to go and chat with these guys and have done so since i was 18 . if anyone knew the true answer to this then i think they would be ashamed of themselves entering into an argument like this. i was very interrested to hear someone talk about rememberance day...you are so right that it saddened me to think it is so overlooked and at the age of 41 i have never looked at its meaning to be compared with anzac day....no i dont want a public holiday on that day... i just think it is sad how it doesn't seem as an important day to many. thank you for pointing this out i never thought i would learn more about my own spirtual belifes on a wood working forum. i'll step off my soap box and as i do let me tell you all something...this saturday i will bow my head and give thanks LEAST WE FORGET. then its family time.
glen boulton

OK Cliff,Been there and done that too, and also had to provide after hours and emergency cover.(Until recently, a condition of my registration)
Amazing how many animals get crook after hours, and how much people resent being charged a premium for the service.
(Note I said "Charged"---my greatest occurrence of bad debtors was those who neede me out of hours!!)

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i'm one of those workers who in the past has had to work a sunday just so i can have the monday off

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i dont need a public holiday gassetted to me by govenment to enjoy a day

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Sounds like you do, actually.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glen boulton

if anyone knew the true answer to this then i think they would be ashamed of themselves entering into an argument like this.

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Hi Glen,
Do you know the true answer to your question? and if so, do you feel ashamed of yourself for entering this argument?

There seems to be a presumption/assertion that if you want a public holiday, you are somehow knowingly disrespecting the ANZACs??? I wonder how many of them (the ANZACs that is) would have said no to a public holiday. :?

That's what I mean about the emotive clap trap. It's an attempt to guilt you out of the viewpoint by suggesting that wanting or expecting a public holiday is some how offensive to the memory of the ANZACs. It's bollocks. What I don't understand is why. It makes no difference to how people will commemorate ANZAC day. As far as I'm concerned, this is an industrial relations issue plain and simple.

Maybe someone could explain why they think a public holiday would actually be detrimental? Help us understand your viewpoint logically instead of trying to make us feel ashamed.

you are prety hard core silent i'll give you that...but sadly i think you missed the point...both mine and the nature of the day...no i'm not going to hy-light anything you said.... just be thankfull that we didn't end up with a majority red flag...the point i was making is it makes no differance to me as it is celibrated on the day it falls..except the day we go to church...and as i'm not religious if we did it on sunday and didn't have monday off...then i would be ok with that too. i can appretiate the fact that you as an employee want a day off paid by your employer. i just wish the gassetted pubic holidays forced on us by government were paid by government so the employer doesnt have to increse his hourly rate to cater for public holidays, parternal days, sick days, anual leave days, carerer days, my granmother is sick day, the neibours dog attacked our cat last night days, i have to register my car days, i think i have food poisioning days, the party or concert was so big last night that if i did come in i would be hopless at work so i'm doing you a favour days, belive me i can go on for hours on this subject as i have had over 15 employees for the last 10 years... all this is not the argument i gladly gave all my guys and girls a day off whenever and this caused a few heated arguments with my construction manager and i. the problem is tring to remain competitive in the market... i know for a fact that a few of my guys have said that they wished that they had gone to work instead after pulling a stunt. and later reilising that we have lost a contract because of our hourly rate was not able to be competitive. every thing we do effects our hourly rate and this is why the employer is in that office for 85 plus hours a week. he is tring to make ends meet and keep guys employed. you will just have to take my word for it...its not as easy as it looks being the boss. let me tell you when it all goes bad.....the worst that will happen to you is you loose your job..i wish i could say the same.. so yes i'm not against them, i just wish i didn't have to fund them. and i am not going to lobby for more of them. my personal opinion is i belive we have more than our fair share of them. i understand you persepective absolutly "you feel let down by nsw government that we didnt get a holiday paid by your employer" and that is a terrible shame. the last thing we need is anyone feeling bad about not getting a day off. i will just go with the discion of the day on this one though. i wonder if you can see a little of my side. do your self a favour go to dawn service and then go to the rsl... take a look from the outside of the box.. its a shame you missed the opertunity to ask those questions i mentioned. they got not on minute off in any campain. this is somthing we here (thankfully) will never be able to compehend...not even a little. a baby criing in the doctors waiting room anoyes me. god can you even think what the screams would be like in those close quarters of a trench... and to think the government asked you to work a monday THOSE SADISTIC MONGRELS i going to have to stop now . i think i jumped on the meat ants nest enough. i hope everyone enjoys their family time on anzac day weather your an employee or an employer i think the world of both of these worlds
glen boulton

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the worst that will happen to you is you loose your job.

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and you find out that the employer doesn't pay your last paycheck, and loadings.......and then also find out that the employer never paid your taxes......and then the tax office gets up you....:roll:

and this is not just small dodgy business owners, this is big business as well. it happens more often than you think.

Without reading it all, as it's a bit hard without any line breaks I think I get the gist of your post and you're still labouring under the misapprehension that my viewpoint on the public holiday some how makes me incapable of appreciating the day for what it is. For some reason, I am able to separate the two issues in my head, not sure why, must be just the way the old noodle works.

Your argument seems to be that public holidays in general are an issue for employers. So it goes well beyond this one day in one year out of many. Doesn't seem to relate to the current debate to me, as it's a general rant about public holidays and leave in general.

PS not sure what you mean by 'hard core'. Not a phrase I would use to describe myself in any case.

vernonv hi
yes i do is the answer. i do feel ashamed that i have to spell these sorts of thing to people.
and yes it is an industrial relations issue and i think the very first question asked to start this was and industrial relations question as well as a heart felt question. so the first reply was a heart felt answer and the second one was a industrial relations answer... i tring t keep a balance.
and no i dont think that this discusion it belittleing anzac. i think we all overwelming agree on that. the discusion's initital question was based around anzac day that why it is in the discusion and yes we we could go to that trench in its day and ask for a day off on the 27th of april 2009 in respect to you guys ...i bet they would have said yes....but if you could ask them did you want to have the day off tommorrow and we will organise a game of cricket and rugby on the beach with the turks. i bet they would say yes as well. so their opinion is more of an emontional argument then an actual fact.. and no i think its great to have a public holiday on the day. thats an easy answer.
i hope this helps you understand just one point of opinoin. and i am very aware that it is not the majority. we are lucky to have a majority rules system in australia. (well we try to be like that anyway...we just have to ask if its ok with the president of the united stats first) ha ha
glen boulton

hi silent
i glad we do agree in basis and yes you have got it in one thank you for understanding. i will try to seperate my long winded and antagonising detail answers in future. i agree it is a jumble of words when all together. please i would never take away from anyone about their belifs and if i have done so i appoligise. you are very patriotic why else would you be here now. and i would stand beside you on saturday.

hey ronin
yes that is true... and some people plan it that way too.. thankfully not all go that way... but if a buisness goes broke then that means they have no money left. and some of those guys may loose a weeks pay and some super... but once an administrator comes in the tax is not an issue to the employee and the first thing thats is paid out to the wash up is wages to employees then their super. then it go to personal garentees the company has eg. bunnings accounts, boral etc. the bank overdraft goes onto the employer direct and not the company. the tax is the last on the list depending on the situation. and depends on if the administrator is appointed or if you have called in an administrator. ther is a world of differance their alone. there are exception of course but basicly thats how it goes. this has nothing to do with anzac day or public holidays though.

sorry about the hard core shot
glen boulton
glen boulton

Glen,
With all due respect, your posts seem to be so full of ramblings, contradictions and convolutions it's hard to make any sense out of them and I'm not sure it's worth the time or effort to unravel them.:no:
You're not related to Joh Bjelke-Petersen are you?

well i am a quenslander and i was once polictly motivated. and yes i ramble. contradiction ??? i just have opinion which im sure differs to others. convolutions??? well put it this way i do give complex answers when asked complex questions but to wite it all down would be hard for me a few beers and bottle of krinklewood red sitting on the verandah face to face i'm sure it would be easier to follow. i apoligise for the confusion i have caused you.
to simlify the answer

1.i agree with public holidays on the day their due

2. i belive everybody is pationate about anzac day for their own reasons

3.i wish there was some sort of government assistance so employers could help make their buisness afordable to the public.

these answers are very general though.
hope this helps
glen boulton

Heres my take on it.
Anzac Day is a bit of a joke because it celebrates what was basically a tactical blunder that cost about 8000 Aust & NZ troops lives for purely political reasons. It also belittles all of the other battles of the western front where we came of age as a nation and heralded the start of a proud tradition of our troops....as Ronin? says remembrance day would be far more worthy.
The only reason that it is celebrated is that it was our first major military encounter as a new nation, pity it was such a flop.

But its a public holiday so call it what you want.

I've been self employed for 25 years so I don't give a toss about public holidays anyway, but I agree it is an industrial relations issue. The reason for the public holiday is no longer any more important than say than the queens birthday.

Its a right of every worker to have it and people should never surrender their rights without a fight....... one of the motivating factors that mobilised so many of our troops I would have thought.

Glen, doesn't your keyboard have a Shift key?????

yes it does but the opperator has trouble using it...its a modern email world thing... new corperate look.. every thing is done in lower case...not everbody likes it. even buisness cards come out with lower case on names addresses and headings.. its probably a sydney thing. and i'm sure it wil b only a fad that will pass.
i'm just in the habit now days. no offence is ment by it.
gleN boultoN

Thank you Glen, I take it the word "modern" in this context is meant (sp) to convey that it is "good" or "cool".

If that is the case, let me give you my opinion of the "modern look", it looks like cr*p.

No offence meant by that either.:cool:

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i'm sure it wil b only a fad that will pass

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It did :D

Sorry mate, I shouldn't have said anything, I just find it hard to read when it's all in one big paragraph with no capitals. Our brains process the information more easily if there's lot's of white space. On computer monitors, we need even more of it than on paper apparently. You're not the only one guilty of it and I've had to come back and put line breaks in my own posts on occasion after reading them back. I find myself just skimming posts like that and I often miss important details.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I find myself just skimming posts like that and I often miss important details.

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Don't worry silentC, you didn't miss any in this thread:doh:

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

Don't worry silentC, you didn't miss any in this thread:doh:

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That is because I used line breaks, capitals, punctuation, correct spelling & good grammar. :D

i understand guys and i will take it on board. it is lasiness that makes me do this and also in the arena i play, this is common ground. dont forget that the new building erea that we have entered into in the last 5 or so years has made the modern builder far more leagaly compliant. the building of a project of any size is 15% building 40% safety and the rest is paperwork. long are the days gone of that handshake and pat on the back. nowdays in buisness its who can pull the bigger shots with the better paperwork.
just a short exsample is one contract submitted last year was for a job worth 175,000 and in note form it was submitted in approx 145 page document. once the job was won a further 550 page document was submitted to comply. that is before we even get on site. then folows all the SWMS (safe work method statements) one for each seperate opperation. MSDS(material safty data sheets) for every thing you will use on site.
we had at a mirvac job and a saftey officer ask for a SWMS and a MSDS on our carpenter pencils as they contain lead and they were a hazzardards material. so we had a designated rubbish bin lined with hazard material labeled plastic bags removed daily from site. it was absured.
so now days it is just habit to me.
anyone who has spent their life in the building industry and has got out of it over the last 5 or so years would be amazed at what happens now. mind you i am talking about large contracts probably 70% of our work.
i will try to improve...i promise...but dont hold your breath. as i'm ok with it.
yes there i go again another ramble and detailed answer..which includes more industrial relation problems with the modern company runnings.
as for my spelling i left school in year 8 to get work. being in trade background i can hide behind a hammer and auto spell check. i can say that i'm not perfect..and i'm ok with that.
were we talking about anzac day?????
glEn boultOn

Glen, I'm not a purfect speller either, but I actually use my spell checker (it is the modern way, don't you know:2tsup::rolleyes:)

(and yes, the spell checker underlined purfect in red, it does work)

All digs aside, your way of writing is a turn-off for most people, so if you want to communicate and get your message across, that's not the way to go about it.

i haven't got this spell check to work yet...i down loaded it but still no evail.. maybe a restart will put it in its place. not that it worries me too much as this isn't going to go to court. i am tring to keep up with technoligy but the base line is i'm still a carpenter/joiner......and proud of it.
all you old blokes will know what i'm talking about. its just when i go to the timber yard and aks for a 90 x45 10 @ 8 ft i alays get that blank dumb look....some habits die hard.
P.S. i am typing slowly so you can keep up.....
gLen bOulton

I usually ask for 2x4 10 @ 2.4 :D

clearly i'm not alone...thank god
glEn boulTon

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Originally Posted by silentC

That's what I mean about the emotive clap trap. It's an attempt to guilt you out of the viewpoint by suggesting that wanting or expecting a public holiday is some how offensive to the memory of the ANZACs. It's bollocks. What I don't understand is why. It makes no difference to how people will commemorate ANZAC day. As far as I'm concerned, this is an industrial relations issue plain and simple.

Maybe someone could explain why they think a public holiday would actually be detrimental? Help us understand your viewpoint logically instead of trying to make us feel ashamed.

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Silent

are you a school teacher?

I ask because the incompetant (insert suitable expletive) who run the department decided 3 or 4 years ago that because ANZAC day fell on a Saturday this year the following Monday would be a public holiday -- so as gazetted Term 2 this year starts on Tuesday April 28 which at my local school is a pupil free day so in effect the kids don't go back till Wednesday — I'm waiting to see what speed the school zone speed cameras ping people for next Monday.
I'll add that the current crop of incompetants are likely no worse than the last lot who, when introducing the current 4 term year, confidently stated that Easter would always fall within the school holiday period – wrong !! as anyone with a little understanding of simple maths and a reasonable degree of general knowledge could have can worked out.


but back to your question ...

for me ANZAC day is Australia's only true national day. It represents the first time Australians as a nation did anything significant on the world stage and it carries no overtones of racial discrimination or oppression — which some groups attach to Australia day nor is the significance duplicated or replicated in individual states on different dates. (see below)
As such it should be celebrated on the actual day, not the nearest convient Monday.
I remember the time when the country effectively stopped to remember, to reflect, to recommitt itself to the ideals that the ANZACS fought for.
and I regret that for too many the day has become just another opportunity to make money from the "mug punter" — the group I'm most dark about is corporate sport (NRL, AFL, etc.) who justify games on ANZAC day by donating the paltry gate receipts to the RSL (or another charity) while all the while they are rolling in the revenue from corporate advertising and media rights.

So the public holiday should be the day (Saturday this year) and any retailing should be restricted to the afternoon or (my preference) banned altogether. So no substitute day.
Only when ANZAC day falls on a Sunday do we as a predominately Christian culture have a conflict. Then it is appropriate to reserve Sunday for church and to commenorate ANZAC day on Monday.



The whole country might get a day off for Australia day – which historically was celebrated on the last or penultimate weekend in January and in NSW at least marked the end of the Summer School Holidays.
But if you live in SA, ACT, WA, (and for all I know Vic, Qld, NT and Tassie) you get a local "first settlement day" holiday as well.
And for some, 26 Jan represents Invasion Day — not something they want to celebrate.



ian

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Originally Posted by glen boulton

we had at a mirvac job and a saftey officer ask for a SWMS and a MSDS on our carpenter pencils as they contain lead and they were a hazzardards material. so we had a designated rubbish bin lined with hazard material labeled plastic bags removed daily from site. it was absured.
so now days it is just habit to me.

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and you fell for this crap?

as far as I know, if lead pencils ever contained lead it was before about 1750!

since then "lead" pencils only contained graphite (= pure carbon) and more recently a carbon based polymer



ian

hey ian
good pick up... and here is a linck to the one we tried to submit
http://www.irwin.com/irwin/resources...ter_Pencil.pdf

but it was not accepted and the saftey officer on site sets the rules. so for the sake of working and not "going there" with an ex BLF organiser. we just did what he asked. after all it is no skin off our nose and we had stated in our contract that any special conditions forced by "on site requirements" will be charged out as an extra to the contract.
so we did what he said and we charged accoringly. both sides happy...it was just alot of faxes , emails, phone calls and lost time in our office.
so yes we conceded to this crap
but no we didn't fall for it... we tried to fight first...
glen boulton

Ian,
As a teacher, please write out 100 times,
IncompetEnt.(Once is a typo, twice, an error!!):doh::doh:
Sorry to be pedantic, but this thread is so far off topic, I couldn't help myself.:C:C