:2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by damian
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:2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by damian
You have to remember that what they are asking for is a very small percentage of the total package. Maybe only a small percentage of the population will utilise the paths, but then again the greens only want a small percentage of the package spent on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by damian
Just because some people do not agree with the policy doesn't necessarily make it politically motivated.
Bike paths are not interconnected by bike paths and Queensland isn't the whole of Australia.Quote:
They are interconnected. By roads, and in Qld by footpaths. Here it's still legal to ride a pushbike on the footpath.
Change has to start somewhere. Also I don't have mains water and it was pretty easy to give up.Quote:
Even if they were interconnected usage wouldn't increase substantially without a signifigant cultural and lifestyle change. You would have as much luck asking Australians to give up grid electricity or mains water.
I don't know - but there are lot's of situations where bike transport (or simply for recreation) it quite valid and possible. It's just as easy to give examples for either case. However, lack of infrastructure doesn't make bike transport an easy option.Quote:
Do you really think people who live 30 kilometers from work would cycle every day carrying their change of clothes, lunches etc etc ? up hill and down ? Do you really think housewives would give up their 100 series landcruisers and take the kids to school on pushbikes ? go shopping on them and lug home a trailer full of groceries melting in the sun ? Do you suppose the tradies would shun their hiluxes ? The fact is most Australians have to cover too many miles every week to get life done. Yes it's a function of how our society has evolved, but changing it is a massive undertaking. I'm not saying it's right or ideal, but it is how it is.
I think you'll find that the amount of money talked about would not provide too many buses and keep them running for long.Quote:
If that money were put into building buses in Australia it would provide as many jobs and more use to the community.
Whatever the amount, I can't believe that it's going to do any good except make those who like to peddle their bikes to work, think that the greens have done something for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernonv
Nor can I believe and accept that bike paths are in the economic interests of Australia as a whole. It goes back to my point earlier somewhere - the Greens are little ideas based on their own agenda, they have no idea of the big picture.
The money in the stimulus, has to have a perpetual motion of continuing to generate something - bike paths don't. Xenaphon (sp? ) has more of an idea just as a singular Independent than the Greens put together, at least he negotiated more money on the Murray for his vote (the Greens had a grand plan for their vote), which will help pasturalists etc. up and down the river, which helps a massive % of our economy. Weigh that against bikes paths.
Well. I don't like any of the mongrels.:no:
But I do support the shooters party.:2tsup:
OK, the amount to be spent on bike paths is $40m. That is 0.095% of the $42b package. It will not only benefit commuters, it will also be used by children (providing a much safer place to ride, than the roads) and for recreation in general (something that should be promoted in this age of obesity).Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo
It's simple, you need to pay people to build the paths.Quote:
Nor can I believe and accept that bike paths are in the economic interests of Australia as a whole.
The money paid goes back into the economy and gets "recycled". Just the same as any infrastructure project. I'm not sure I see the difference.Quote:
The money in the stimulus, has to have a perpetual motion of continuing to generate something - bike paths don't.
Yes, give the guy $40m and see what he achieves with it. Lets compare apples with apples.Quote:
Xenaphon (sp? ) has more of an idea just as a singular Independent than the Greens put together, at least he negotiated more money on the Murray for his vote (the Greens had a grand plan for their vote), which will help pasturalists etc. up and down the river, which helps a massive % of our economy. Weigh that against bikes paths.
I've typed this twice now. One more try. It is the economic impact after the building project is completed that is different. You could pay people to build $40 million worth of sand castles but if the asset is of little or no value to the community after the project is finished then the money can be better spent elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernonv
40 mill would build quite a few buses, for example, and their ongoing costs should be covered by fares.Quote:
Yes, give the guy $40m and see what he achieves with it. Lets compare apples with apples.
:aro-u:
I'm going to do it again. Damian, I totally agree with you.
It looks like I also need to keep repeating myself - a road is no different to a bike path. Now a bike path may not be of use to you, but there are plenty of people who it is of use to. On top of that we are talking about a minuscule percentage of the total package - if it was a significant percentage, then I might agree with you ... but it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by damian
Your joking right - when has public transport ever paid for itself? When you consider the initial outlay, plus drivers wages, plus fuel, plus maintenance ... $40m won't get you far ... you'd be better off buying a bike:D.Quote:
40 mill would build quite a few buses, for example, and their ongoing costs should be covered by fares.
Luckily I don't have to make a decision in Queensland.
But I would remind Queenslanders of one of the few sensible things that a State Premier has said - Nick Greiner pointed out that in modern Australia, the States are not about economies (sorry Anna, even the QIC guy had to say that you are irrelevant to economic matters) that is a Federal issue. The States are about efficient service delivery in the areas of their responsibility - those are water, electricity, roads, rail, ports, education, hospitals, police courts, prisons, etc.
The decision about which party to elect is not ideological (or should not be) it is about who do you think can delvier those services with the greatest "bang per buck". That really means - honesty and preparedness to make decisions without bloating the intermediaries of the bureacracy between the source of the funding and the point of delivery of the service. To put it another way, you want good management without corruption or porkbarrelling.
Take policing and justice - do not fall for the crap about fixed term sentences - these only put the muppets that the Police manage to catch behind bars for longer and does not prevent crime.
I am wondering if labor are going to bother releasing any polices this election campaign...All they currently have done is attack the opposition...Perhaps after 12 years in office they feel their fantastic record of managing the state speaks for itself and they do not need to do anything...
Also notice they are nothing but doom and gloom on the future of the state with regards to the economic crisis...
Don't forget to vote today and remember that Queensland has optional preferential voting....You do not have to preference other candidates..Putting just a single 1 in a box will do...
Pretty sure politicians are going to win. As usual.
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gra
mjmjm Your about a month late on that comment:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by mjmjm
somehow labour managed to get in again.:roll:
Sorry, hadn't seen any previous posts.
True nevertheless.
Looks like Labor's back. Sigh.
I'm working class, but this mob's got nothing to do with the working class. Pity there wasn't an alternative.
Michael
Looks like our (once) hospital stays a 'Health Centre' , no police to ring in an emergencey (it's a waste of time here) , dumb kids (and teachers), criminals free and rewarded
BUT we get a walking track to the Cape, Crocs in Space and poison (flouride) in our once world class water.
Bring back the 'Brisbane Line'
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and all the poor buggers in town get to drink s#!t
Message to the new Queensland government:
We didn't want you back but we're stuck with you.
But don't imagine for a minute that you have a mandate to do anything except fix the things you've broken since you've been in office.
Michael
I do not understand, when we have plenty of water (here in what used to be the Douglas Shire), we have water restrictions because they have water restrictions in Cairns
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Please Explain
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The explanation is called bureaucrats.
They are smarter than politicians.
Politicians, mostly, don't know which way is up.
Bureaucrats run governments.
Bureaucrats also don't know which way is up, but they know how to get what they want.
Michael
Oh well, I suppose we'll just have to get used to the way it is.
We need to adapt to the way things are here now in (Far North) QLD
Great shame for 'Old Australia'
RIP
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After giving us the fluoride we needed to have I've got a nasty feeling the next thing they'll foist on us is daylight saving time. Vegetation laws will be tightened to a death grip around the throats of farmers and sawmillers. Registration will almost certainly go up for 6 & 8 cylinder cars. For those of us living outside Brisbane I think it's time to get the Vaseline ready.:oo:
I know I'm going to wake up tomorrow to a smiling politicianess telling me how grateful she is to the people of Queensland for electing her incompetenceness for another term.
And how humble she is at the people's confidence in her administration. Etc etc.
And how responsive she will be to the people's concerns about her previous administration. Etc etc.
And then they'll get on with it. The incompetence, the holidays abroad, the incompetence, the incompetence, and the incompetence. And the holidays abroad.
Aint it wonderful to be a politician?
Michael
A result no one predicted..
However you get the government you deserve..
Well the whole god damned fiasco was an appalling waster of time and money. Townsville is 20 odd hours drive from Brisbane.
Now that we've had regional council amalgamations, let's amalgamate the State gov into the regional councils as well.
It will be interesting who the next leader of the LNP will be...They need someone who is like Rudd....The federal Labor party was considered a joke until Rudd came to power...One person changed their entire outlook and they stormed to victory, even though the workings of the party had not changed..
The next three years will be very hard for Queensland, there is no way in hell bligh will create 100 000 new jobs..unemployment is expected to reach near 10%..The LNP probably will think the result was a blessing in disguise, I don't think any political party would want to be in power at the moment, when the recession really does start to hit that is when opinion polls will start to change...
Queenslanders are not stupid, hard times are indeed coming.
When voters know tough times are coming they always vote in the Labour Party, as they are percieved as giving the best help in tough times, when times are good the conservatives will be voted back in.
Anyone who thought that anything different would happen has not looked at Australian political history.
I disagree with that..stupid may not be the correct word..maybe unknowingly selfish or ignorant is a better phrase...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
Australians have a history of voting for idiots....Howard should never have lasted as long as he did...He started off well and ended up the same as queensland labor..
This may be a little OT, but I think these times highlight the problems with partisan politics.
The Opposition should stop being just that and start working with the ruling parties in order to help lessen any impact the current crisis has.
This also means that the ruling parties should also be willing to work with the opposition parties.
One-eyed political bias has a special home in Queensland, but its not about getting power (well, it shouldn't be) but about doing whats best for the Country/State.
In the lead-up to the election, I didn't hear from one Queenslander who was going to vote for Labor (and I communicate with quite a few), yet they got in. How come?
Because the Gerrymander that allowed the National Party to rule the state with 30% of the vote has long been abolished and the majority of Queenslanders (albeit a small majority) voted Labour in.
:no: :aro-u: that's a matter of opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
Which, to take your idea, is why Dudd is doing such a good job now? Instead of trying to talk things up, he wheels out the cart and calls out, "Lay out your dead, lay out your dead!"
:~
I agree and concur with AlexS' post.
Each political party has always moved the Electrol boundaries, Ahern did it, Goss did it, Beatie did it - they all do it. (if it's my fotre, why did I mention Ahern? )Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
Actually it is interesting..Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
At the moment Labor have got 42.7% of the vote which gives them maybe 50-53 seats
LNP 41.1% which gives them 32 to 35 seats
Greens got 8.2% but no seats
Independant got 8% with four seats..
Not a lot of difference between labour and the lnp but a big difference between seat counts.. Sort of like a jerrymander in itself..
I am guessing that Labor will end up holding no seats outside a major regional or city area..So Labor effectively won by keeping the urban voters happy and the LNP failed by not looking like a credible alternative to urban voters...
Come next election I cannot see the LNP losing any support in the seats they have now..Leopards do not change their spots and Labor will be feeling pretty smug at the moment so not a lot will change in the next two and half years.. If the LNP get a credible leader at the next election they will probably get in, however the problem will be this..In two and a half years time the recession/depression we will have will probably be just about over but the state will be in a lot of debt, and I mean a lot and cuts will have to be made, no doubt drastic cuts like Jeff Kennett did to victoria. The life of a political party who will be forced to make the cuts will be short... Australians do not seem to like to be told they cannot have something or have been living beyound their means...Living beyound our means is the reason why the recession is about to start..
The next few years will be interesting but painful...
lets face it despite the recession after 15 years of labour government there will be a huge debt to pay back. they will just get it all payed back and be running in surplus and labour will get back in and spend it all.
Couple of things.
The gerrymander wasn't like a boundary redistribution. It weighted rural votes more heavily than urban votes.
Preferential voting even optional preferential is a debatable system. Consider indooroopilly where the LNP is streets ahead on primaries but it'll be a tustle between the greens and labour who will win the seat.
They have already raised registration, that was in the mini budget, although there are rumous of another hit. Mine's just arrived and it's up $70.
I, like everyone else, am shocked at the return, but it did occur to me last week that as the reality bit at the voting booth hands would shake and take the "safe" option. Springborg had made big inroads into his image but he's still basically unelectable. The conseravtives didn't shoot themselves down this time but they didn't really get any traction either.
While Bligh is utterly repulsive, corrupt and as mentioned incompetant, most people think better the disaster your used to in difficult times than someone who might possibly if they try hard enough make an even bigger mess of it.
They lost the election mostly in Brisbane. Perhaps if they had run drive time ads on radio pointing out the labour gov has had 11 years to fix our roads and done basically nothing it might have reminded eveyone how hopeless labour is.
Oh well. If I could find some where else nice to move to I'd be out of here in a jiffy. What's the central coast of WA like ?
And there I thought that Queensland was beautiful one day and perfect the next. Seems I was wrong and that it's as corrupt and hopeless as all the other states.Quote:
Originally Posted by damian
Peter.
Well it's not as bad as Victoria :D
What a mob of whingeing whining Monday armchair experts.
Righto you experts, you've obviously studied politics and know how to fix the problems, riddle me one simple thing. What the hell is the Labour party?
Cheers
Michael
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