Just to add something different, I recently pulled up some old(ish) decking which was in fairly good condition, nailed grooves down. Apparently with a nail gun. I say this because, upon pulling it up, each and every face which had laid against a bearer had been forced flat by the pressure of nailing. No airflow here.
Cheers,
I built a 12m x 3 meter veranda all in treated pine grooves up 3 years ago and it is perfect as the first day, conceded it is all under cover yet it gets wet occasionay with big and windy rain. It is a pain to claen if you want to use a broom. I just use a big noisy blower to the delight of the neighbours.
I also built a cubby house for my daughter some 8 years ago. It is up in a large maulberry tree. The way up is through a ladder that goes on a long winding walkway and suspended bridge all made out of grooved treated pine grooves up. Now that one is not under cover, it is in the open and under the maulberry tree. I don't think there is a place that would get more gunk that that one, the ammount of fruit and bat droppings is collosal and the timber gets black. The rain washes it all after the fruits stop dropping and I have yet to replace one single board. No cupping no nothing.
Must be my luck!
I built a 7m x 4m deck beside my pool and because it was going to get wet from the pool as well as rain I put the grooves up fully aware of all the reasons to put the grooves down. I treated and sealed all the joists and double nailed the ends of all the boards and none of them have cupped or split and it's been down a bit over two years and had two summers worth of salt water on it. I also put down a trim around the border of the deck grooves down to create a contrast which looks good (if I do say so myself), this also covers cuts I made along the fence which is at an angle so nice and tidy. I have a large Jaccaranda in my garden (:eek: I know I'm an idiot putting a pool in a garden that has a Jaccaranda!) which drops loads of leaves and blossom but I also use a blower / vac and it cleans up well.
I reckon if you want it to look good (IMHO) put them up and do what you can during the build process to lengthen it's life but being aware that it probably won't last as long as if you put it down. When people come round and say "You've put them down the wrong way" reply with "I know looks good doesn't it". If they persist just ask them to leave.:D
HH
Yes but the argument is which way it is intended to go: grooves up (wrong) or grooves down (correct). It's pointless to attempt to introduce logic to the discussion. You can argue the pros and cons all you like. It doesn't matter what it looks like or how long it lasts - the fact remains that you've laid it upside down.
:D
Take your point SC but the question doesn't say anything about which is correct.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot
HH
Had a large timber deck built about 8 years ago and with little knowledge at the time, assumed that the grooves were meant to go up for "grip" purposes. Since then I have discovered that if your foot is moving in the same directions as the grooves....forget about grip.
I also spent several hours brushing on some American Redwood coloured stain which looked beautiful at the time.
8 years down the track and I would love to change the colour of the deck but see it as impossible to sand back the timber due to the nature of the grooved finish ( I could be wrong ).
A couple of years ago while watching "Backyard Blitz", Scotty the builder advised the correct reasoning for putting the grooves down ( air flow etc ). As such, when a balcony decking had to be replaced by my Home Builder due to rotting bearers ( under warranty ), I insisted that the pine decking be installed groove down. Apart from the air flow issue, I can repaint it as many colours as I like with easier surface preparation ( even allowing for the earlier comments in relation to painting 1 surface only ).
Having had my go at what I have done and got away with, I have one question and one point to make.
A) If one wanted to get rid of the grooves, is it feasible to punch the nails further in and sand the grooves away with a big floor drum sander thingy?
B) About this 'theory' of grooves down for "airflow".
Provided that you have nailed the boards lake a lady, delicately enough for the grooves still to exist under the boards, I concede that some air may squeeze down there, but so will water. I rather have the joists with bitumen or other stuff to protect them from water, and no pockets for additional water to stay there forever. I find this idea that air will somehow find it's way between the boards nailed with a ton of force against the joist, a bit what to say ... aloof.
I didn't notice anyone mentioning another reason for "grooves down" that I read somewhere: water on the underside of decking has a greater tendency to drip off a grooved surface compared to a smooth one. This would reduce the time the timber is damp and hence extend its life.
Is this true?
Theoretically. The grooves provide a series of narrow curved surfaces. This discourages water from clinging onto the timber through surface tension. In still air conditions, a smooth flat surface might provide sufficient area to retain some water in contact with the surface for an extended period. This would lead to greater penetration of moisture and extended drying time.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony2096
"Drip Groove-. A semicircular grove on the underside of the drip cap or the lip of a window sill which prevents water from running back under the drip or sill. ... "Quote:
Originally Posted by tony2096
window and door sills in uk have grooves routed into them ... surely they wouldn't do it if it didn't work?
This is standard practice in the building industry even on high rise buildings on precast and in-situ concrete on window sills, patios etc. usually done as a "V" groove.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackiew
Grooves down allows for better ventilation - who thought up the "its better grip" whn grooves up idea? Grooves up means EASIER TO DAMAGE!
Ah, but there is! ... http://www.ajsmith.clara.net/deckinghardframes.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
Bit expensive to export to the land of Oz.Quote:
Originally Posted by hexbaz
:D I was not suggesting that such a thing would be exported to Oz, just answering BM's question - "why isn't there decking timber grooved on both sides????"Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_White
The grooves are down on my decking, by the way. :cool:
Grooves down, although it's my belief the Rough head finish came first the reasoning second. An old timber merchant told me this a few years ago when PJK was prime minister in an attempt to help our fledgling "timber value adding" sector he imposed a tarriff on all finished timber products, but not unfinished. So the Yanks/Canadians etc came up with "rougher head dressing" on one face only to avoid the duties as it was not viewed as finished product but rawer resource. And the consumers were given some "interesting" (including reduced glare off batons for the roofing guys)reasons for the finish by enterprising sales staff, as popularity grew, our domestic manufacturers had to follow suit.
If what he told me is correct would this not be a classic case of "The Emperors New Clothes"? :eek:
Another reason I tend to think there is some truth in this besides PJK did do the tarriff thing, is that as Marc said, if airflow was the crucial point in using this finish, the grooves should be deeper and wider Ala decent T&G flooring. But then again its only Pinus species (AKA noxious weeds) and the quicker it rots the quicker you can replace it with real timber :p
G'day All.
We produced 110x30 reeded Spotted Gum decking for export to japan. They installed it reeded side down. this allows airflow, waterflow and adds to the life of the joists due to the limited likelyhood of fungus developing.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton
Hey Trevor....is that your gun?
HH.
G'day HH.
Yep sure is. I shoot IPSC open division
Glock model 22 originally in 40 S&W.
Johnny Howard bought the 40 barrel from me in the buyback (stealback) I replaced it with a 357 Sig barrel, Cmore sight, and a KKM comp.
Goes like a dog shot in the ****.
Hooroo
thanks for the great thread i'm about to start a 12x4 metre deck i was going to build it reed up ,but now will do it the correct way thanks for helping me avoid a stuff up that will be one less in the project:rolleyes:
Dare to be different Goat put it reed up!
Have a read thru my posts regarding my Octagon Deck made from Merbau.
Heaps and Heaps of details regarding training and choices.
Reeds Down. Reasons as stated.
Biggest seller was the grain in the Merbau. Absolutely fantastic!
Felt the reeds up would diminish the visual effects of the grain.
Where are these posts, please? I have looked at all 29 of your posts and cannot see any reference to decking. Perhaps you could add a link, rather than just say "Have a look through ..."?Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryGSumpter
Thanks.
Edited to add link to Barry's Merbau post: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...read.php?t=979
Took me a while to find that link Barry! Mainly because you have helpfully changed your id from barrysumpter to BarryGSumpter. I therefore humbly suggest that in future you add a link to posts you reference. Saying "See my post on ..." is not enough if your id changes in the mean time. ;)
Lovely octagonal deck, by the way! :cool:
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Hi hexbaz,
Thanks for the time you took to chase up the post and posting the hyperlink in your reply.
Couldn't sort out how to change my email address after changing because of 300 junk mails per day. So had to create a new userid.
My search is always on key words like 'Sumpter' or 'Octagon'.
I'm glad you sorted it out.
Of couse that was only one of the posts regarding the deck.
I've a couple of family friends ( yes I have friends - although they don't admit it ) who both placed reeds up - one for safety of traction, who later regretted it. Says it catches everything and its hard to clean. Painted a few times.
Treated Pine.
Another, who had father and two brothers in the building industry, and left NO space between the decking boards. :eek:
After 10 years its turned a fantastic silver grey.
And has only had to change 1 board.
Partially covered. And very close to beach. At a holiday house.
Jarra.
A nice bit of sideways thinking there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryGSumpter
Did ya talk to Neil, or myself? It shouldn't have been a problem for any of us. :confused:
Hi Shane,
Thanks for stepping in.
My second or so post as barryGsumpter addressed this. :p
I didn't mind at the time.
But now it seems I should return to BarrySumpter.
But, if you get the time, want, and energy, please do. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryGSumpter
Well, I'm confused :confused:, I thought you said you changed your email but couldn't alter it under you barrysumpter login so you changed to barrygsumpter with the new email....but after researching, both names have the same email address attached to them.
Send me a PM if I am missing something...
:)
One step further Shane:
----
barrysumpter, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
----
Could have happened when I changed my email...
Any thoughts?
:)
Try it now Barry. PM me if there is any probs.
Yep!
Cool!
I'm back...
back to the poll,
i always thought down till my old man in his wisdom place the first 10 rows upside down (which was on the edge closest to the pool) as a non slip area so my "not so sure footed" mum would not slip over when getting out of the pool.
Agree with all,
The small deck that I made for my shed to sit on, I decided to lay with the grooves up...hard to explain but the overall effect looks great and as another member said, having been properly primed there is no rot :D :p .
But the "right" way is of course grooves down :D .
Personally I would place them groove down then set my circular saw at 3mm cutting depth and proceed to cut across the length of the decking so as to provide drainage then carefully paint between the cuts with non slip (gritty sand type) paint, probably orange colour/flouro for night time safety. Oh and don"t forget to quadruple nail to each joist for a good tight grip that won" let go.