AS 1684 for a strutting beam...
specific fixing for tie down for a steel roof N1/N2. Tile roofs OK to use nominal fixings
Printable View
AS 1684 for a strutting beam...
specific fixing for tie down for a steel roof N1/N2. Tile roofs OK to use nominal fixings
Could do easily in a tropical cyclone. I don't think I could leave a beam like that, even if there wasn't a structural requirement for at least nominal fixing. I'd be worried about getting sued down the track if someone performing work in the ceiling brought it crashing down. There's this thing called duty of care.Quote:
Originally Posted by autogenous
Mick
:DBaaahaawaa haaa :D Ive seen 2 BRB inspectors in 25 years.Quote:
Are there no compulsory inspections at all in Perth?
Footing inspections are phoned in 24 hours prior. In the current market its rare for them to turn up.
There is tie down straps at 1200 centres in all cavity walls over the rafters.
There is hundreds o housands of UBs done like this. They aren't falling through ceilings.
If there was one I would say they'd be onto it quick smart.
Pfft! Never seen one fo them in 25 yearsQuote:
AS 1684 for a strutting beam...
specific fixing for tie down for a steel roof N1/N2. Tile roofs OK to use nominal fixings
The Wild West operates different to the East :D Were all cowboys over here! :oo:
Someone mentioned there was likely a bulkhead in the area and that is correct, it essentially runs parallel with the steel beam. I've attached various photos which some of you may be able to make sense of...
Autogenous; the building inspector I had out, and who did not have an issue with this stack of bricks either, was much more concerned with ensuring the roof was tied down properly. As you say, it should be securely fixed with hoop iron straps around the external walls however the inspector told me the straps were not fixed to the rafters properly and it looked like no attempt had been made to tension them. He said it was one of the worst jobs he had seen in a while.
The inspector also picked up on a number of other installation problems with the roof so you can perhaps understand why I have some concerns over the quality and professionalism of the work in general...
BTW, I asked my builder for the engineering drawings and all I got was a drawing for the slab and footings, nothing for the roof. Should there be drawings for the roof structure or is it just worked out onsite?
Also, anybody know what authority is responsible for this sort of thing and I can get definitive information from (in WA)?
Yeah the chippie will have a roof lay out sheet. There is a lot of steels and LVLs in that job. There will be no engineers detail for the roof. The UBs were delivered as they were. That would be on the order sheet.Quote:
Should there be drawings for the roof structure or is it just worked out onsite?
No walls in the living areas by the looks. Open living?
Theres plenty of hangers checked in and a T joined UB there.
Ok, the inspectors are paranoid about straps. Its an easy pick. Older houses have lost sheets and tiles.
Anything that results in insurance claims has a crack down.
You are more than 3 kilometres from the coast I see. With all those tech screws in the sheets Itll be one mighty mother ship leaving the plate with LVLs and the windows will blow out, the ceiling collapse prior to lift off of the whole roof minus the UBs "if" it manages that.
If he cleared the roof but only picked the straps thats a good thing. Anything else he picked?
OK, I just came down from our roof with pictures.:?Quote:
Originally Posted by autogenous
I don't know if our roof is a different 'type' to Arc's or whether I just had no bloody idea what i was looking for.:C
But I attached the pics anyway.
I couldn't find any steel beam that resembled Arc's.:no:
All the beams seemed to be supported by steel connection/clip thingy's???
(Please excuse my ignorance with this, I'm still trying to get a grip with it all)
madrat, your roof uses a 'truss' type construction.
As such it is not likely that you'll find steel members within the roof space.
With a 'stick' type construction beams, whether steel or timber, are often used to span large distances and in turn support other roof timbers.
These are the issues the building inspector highlighted;
The wind rating is N1, interestingly someone a few blocks away is rated N2 though there is a lot of variation in elevation in the area which I guess makes a difference.
- To comply with BCA AS1684; Bolt or shot fire at max 750mm C/CS WBN / Structerre Concession (at present Tek Screws used) - this is for timber plates on top of UB's.
- Raft Ridge collars not in.
- Hoop iron straps are loosely nailed to rafters. No attempt has been made to tension straps. Not fixed to purlins (battens). Suggestion to disconnect straps and 2 x nail to the top plates plus triple grips to fix rafters to plates.
- Porch and Garage; Plates are not strapped. No soldiers.
- Under purlins where overlapping and sharing a prop should be bolted together (2x).
- Alfresco plates on RSJ's are strapped to RSJ (one elevation only!) but rafters are not triple gripped.
- Props seated on lower flange of RSJ need lateral support.
PS to Madrat - you might want to consider getting some insulation installed.
And not a mention of the loose brick stack? :oo:
Must be ok then...? :no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie
This was the primary reason I had the inspector out and I specifically highlighted it to him onsite and discussed it. He told me it was ok and acceptable.
As I said earlier, I don't expect this to be changed in this case (unfortunately) and accept that this is the sort of thing that is being done in WA. However I do not believe this should be acceptable practice or allowed by the building codes, as it appears it is (possibly because it is vague in this area) then those codes need to be changed or clarified.
I did have a flick through both the framing standards (non cyclonic) and the brickwork standards but couldnt find anything, maybe its in the steel standards?
Its still bodgy in my mind though. :(
You will find 0.1% of houses have triple grips to some areas. You are not close enough to the coast to justify the Triple grips.Quote:
To comply with BCA AS1684; Bolt or shot fire at max 750mm C/CS WBN / Structerre Concession (at present Tek Screws used) - this is for timber plates on top of UB's.
Are the triple grips compulsory?
Are you referring to a lack of collar ties?Quote:
Raft Ridge collars not in.
Ok, maybe a better job could have been done wrapping them tight but wrapping hoop iron over rafters and battens is not the easiest of tasks. If they are flapping with no attempt at tightening then sure get em to tighten them up.Quote:
Hoop iron straps are loosely nailed to rafters. No attempt has been made to tension straps. Not fixed to purlins (battens). Suggestion to disconnect straps and 2 x nail to the top plates plus triple grips to fix rafters to plates.
[quote]Porch and Garage; Plates are not strapped. No soldiers.[quote]
What is a soldier? I assume he means kickers?
Strapping plates? Does he mean the wall plate?
Yep overlapping under purlins should have 2 bolts.Quote:
Under purlins where overlapping and sharing a prop should be bolted together(2x). (Alfresco plates on RSJ's are strapped to RSJ (one elevation only!) but rafters are not triple gripped.
Quote:
Props seated on lower flange of RSJ need lateral support.
Yep straps should be pulled up but hoop iron is not something that is easy to get really good tension. The angle they end up on sometimes its impossible in some cases.Quote:
No attempt has been made to tension straps. Not fixed to purlins (battens).
How do you get a hoop iron strap from the cavity up to the under purlin?
They're not even delivered long enough.:)
Where was the inspector from?
This is a Truss with gang nails. Different:)
https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...chmentid=70165
Thanks Peter,Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdesign
I guess I was looking for something that didn't exist-typical.
(who's an idiot then? :rofl:)
[quote=Arc;
PS to Madrat - you might want to consider getting some insulation installed.[/quote]
We were going to get insulation, but we are getting the roof repaired and repainted with insulpaint (apparently this paint will make a massive difference to temperature and air con usage to the point where we may not need it. So we'll see if it is right or whether we have been duped).
Cheers and good luck. I will continue to follow this thread, that's for sure.
If there were more people who wanted to know & learn it would probably make my work easier overall.
the only 'idiots' are those who don't ask.
Thanks Ausdesign.Quote:
Originally Posted by ausdesign
I tend to feel like I waste people's time who are in the know when I ask, but when I do, it's truly to learn and understand, so I will remember that.
:D
Why dont you email the WA institute of building surveyors [email protected]<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript> <!-- document.write( '<span style=\'display: none;\'>' ); //--> </SCRIPT> with some pics, and mention that you have heard this is common practice. See what there comments are.
Ive got a big bag of magic beans too if you are interested..? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by madrat
hee hee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brickie
That would be nice..:) How much?