Should the Indian Cricket Team go Home?

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Originally Posted by jmk89

"Monkey" is the internationally recognised form of racist taunt to black sportsmen - if you go to a soccer match in Europe it is not uncommon for the crowd to heckle black players every time they receive the ball with monkey noises. And the clubs get fined for this if it happens on the basis that it is racist.

So for anyone to use "monkey" to a black sportsman is to use a word as bad as calling an indigenous Australian a "boong". So far, 'goose' means "fool'" or "dill" but is not racist.

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Poor widdle cricketeers,

Indians calling them names :oo:. The australian team have been the worst sledgers in history, talk about the pot calling the kettle.....cant say "black", cant say dark, what about the pot calling the kettle devoid of light perhaps.

When I was a kid I grew up in a small county town and was called "Effo" or "Wogboy" by the aboriginal kids and "Abo" by the white kids......sheesh, better get some councilling. And they all called me "Mowgli", the jungle book kid.

Maybe Andrew needs to look in the mirror, dreadlocks, big white lips ...fair dinkum, he looks like a golliwog doll :rolleyes: .

See ------ http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cgo0065l.jpg

God save us - how did we ever get through Gallipolli and Kokoda :rolleyes:

And another thing,

If the indian said it and Andrew was so upset why didnt he sit him on his ????? :2tsup:, at least push him over.

Instead he turns to teacher - "He called me names" Blubber blubber blubber. :rolleyes:

Where is the wit?

Remember Boonies retort to:

"Why are you so fat Boonie?"
"Cause everytime I sleep with your mother she gives me a cookie" :D

Grow up sooks!

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Originally Posted by HappyHammer

Exactly unlike Ricky who ran off to tell the teacher....:q

HH.

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Except that:
1. Captains have been told they have to report Racial Vilification
2. Harbajan has done this before
3. Harbajan was warned not to do it again, and did it again

Racism is ugly and needs to be stamped out. Anyone who thinks it is not OK to dob in this type of behavior is worse that the racist IMO.

If you are a white anglo saxon you are a target for everyone other than white anglo saxons. Any comment, gesture, look etc is interpreted as being racist, yet we have to endure all sorts of the same back without it being construed as racist.

Calling someone a name regardless of their color, religion or ethnic background does not always make it racist. (though the monkey comment cannot be construed in any other way, Harbajan was told it was racist, yet he chose to repeat the name the next chance he got.)

If I call someone an idiot it's not because I am racist, its because I think they are an idiot. (and I am not calling anyone here any names either:D)

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Originally Posted by dazzler

Maybe Andrew needs to look in the mirror, dreadlocks, big white lips ...fair dinkum, he looks like a golliwog doll :rolleyes: .

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And you don't think that's deliberate?

Nor the going through the right channels?

It's interesting I think, that it hurts so much when the coppers are brought in. How clever is it to taunt someone into making a mistake?

It's the best way of gaining control over an opponent. Have him lose the plot. That's what's happened isn't it? If he'd simply gone the biff or threatened, then there'd be no sting in that, but to actually dob, and to take the decision making process to the international board... well that's really had an impact.

Why are the Injuns going to pull out? Because they've been caught out by the INTERNATIONAL rules of cricket.

What does all this do for Ponting and Symonds' chance of a big fat 20/20 contract in India? HEAPS --- the world needs bad guys. Who were the best paid WWF Wrestlers, the good guys or the bad guys?

Wake up.

This is all about publicity, and money.

P
:D

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Originally Posted by dazzler

And another thing,

If the indian said it and Andrew was so upset why didnt he sit him on his ????? :2tsup:, at least push him over
Grow up sooks!

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Cos violence is not the answer

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Originally Posted by dazzler

Where is the wit?

Remember Boonies retort to:

"Why are you so fat Boonie?"
"Cause everytime I sleep with your mother she gives me a cookie"

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That question is derogatory the reply is derogatory. Both are funny, ITS NOT RACIST.

Doesn't anyone remember that Darren Lehman was suspended for three matches for calling a South African a kaffir. It was in the Australian dressing rooms, and was not heard by any of the South Africans yet he got 3 matches.

Makes me think that Harbajan got of lightly

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Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

Except that:
1. Captains have been told they have to report Racial Vilification

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Yeah but they're big boys surely they can sort it out between themselves.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

Racism is ugly and needs to be stamped out.

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Agreed but when people are provoked through any type of sledging some react in an extreme manner not usually within their character which may or may not be the case here.

If you continually badger me about something you're gonna get a mouthful of something I might not mean but will say to get across the point I'm not happy. This is the aim of the Aussies when they sledge opposition players to unsettle them to the point of a reaction and when they get the reaction they run off to the umpire, it's about time they grew up and took it on the chin like those they dole it out to.

HH.

Breaking news



Jelena Dokic has signed on for the Australian Open play-off. :D

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Originally Posted by HappyHammer

it's about time they grew up and took it on the chin like those they dole it out to.

HH.

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Agree with everything you are saying, except when its racist. Lets just agree to disagree on this one. :D

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.

Do you know any tertiary education lecturers? Ask them what happens as soon as an Indian student fails an assignment or examination.

Call their bluff. Let them take their bat(s) and ball(s) and go home if they wish.

I think that it is worth remembering that the ref who dealt with this is Mike Proctor, a man whose cricket career was terminated because he represented South Africa. If anyone knows what is racist and what a destructive force racism can be, it is Mike Proctor. He is totally unfazed by all this: Proctor.

As for the "dobbing" accusation against Ponting - the ICC told captains to do this so that the ICC could show that they were not going to tolerate racism. Harbhajan did the crime, he should do the time. If someone else has done the same or a similar crime, they should do time too.

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Originally Posted by HappyHammer

Yeah but they're big boys surely they can sort it out between themselves.
HH.

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No because then the ICC isn't aware of what has happened, and when you get a repeat offender there is no record of those previous offences.

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Originally Posted by Ron Dunn

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.

Do you know any tertiary education lecturers? Ask them what happens as soon as an Indian student fails an assignment or examination.

Call their bluff. Let them take their bat(s) and ball(s) and go home if they wish.

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Bit xenophobic isn't it?

All English people are soccer hooligans?

All Australians are beer swilling hoons in stubbies and thongs?

Hi

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Originally Posted by Waldo

• the umpires should get the boot as they can't see for quids

• Ponting has lost it.

• Australia have long been too arrogant

• Australia are well known for sledging, so now that they're getting their own back - tough titties

• India are being badly treated

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What really gets me is that Australia are VISIBLY CHEATING it's absolutely clear on the videos shown on the media, yet they STILL win that's NOT right :((.

To top THAT off the people interviewed on the Andrew Simmonds incident AGREED that he sould NOT walk.

On the tv survey, 71% voted that Simmonds did the RIGHT thing. That's 71% that AGREE with CHEATING AND DISHONESTY.

The Australian team are degrading themselves and bringing the game of cricket down. To use an old phrase...

"It's just not cricket!"

*IF* Australia win another match and make it an unbroken 17 matches in a row (a new record) THIS match will always be remembered and the Aussies will ALWAYS be thought of in wonder, people will wonder if the Aussies could have done the same by playing HONESTLY - BY THE RULES!

In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low.

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Originally Posted by MrFixIt

To top THAT off the people interviewed on the Andrew Simmonds incident AGREED that he sould NOT walk.

On the tv survey, 71% voted that Simmonds did the RIGHT thing. That's 71% that AGREE with CHEATING AND DISHONESTY.

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So using the logic that if you hit it and don't walk you are cheating because you know you are out, then equally if like Ponting, you hit it into your pads and are then given out LBW, you shouldn't go because you know you are not out.

If a batsman has to accept the umpires bad calls of out against him, then it is only fair that they can also take advantage of an umpires bad calls in his favour

It is up to the umpire to say whether you are out, not up to the player to confirm it for him.

As a kid I can remember batsmen being given 'not out' and walking anyway.

That is sportsmanship, and leaves a strong impression on kids. I shudder to think what kids are learning from this.

Couple of things about this, to my way of thinking anyway, the Indians are more upset about losing the match, hence the series, due to some questionable umpiring decisions. Rightly or wrongly, they copped the brunt of what can go either way in any match, and not just in cricket. Their reaction to the outcome of the 'racial vilification' incident is just the straw that broke the camels back, and I doubt they would have spat the dummy about losing one player if they had won the match. Maybe the umpiring decisions need more video checking if disputed, but leave it all up to them (as in walking or not walking, or dubious catches being 'verified' by the captain). Let the umpires do the job they're paid to do, as is the case in every other sport, but their performances should be monitored.
About the sledging, I personally think its an excellent weapon on the field, and one that Australian's have used to great effect for a long time. Some of it can be pretty funny, in fact an old mate of mine in Perth who was a captain of a grade team and an extremely witty guy, reckons some of the funniest things he ever heard were said on the field...obviously aimed at the opposition with one intention, to unsettle them. Maybe other cultures don't take the p*ss as much as Poms and Aussies.
I'm sure racial taunts are/were part of that, but no longer acceptable, so perhaps its time to move on. The ICC see it as their mission to stamp it out, so every team needs to abide by the same rules. However, IMO, comments like monkey and curry muncher aren't really racist, not in the same league as life affecting racism (I mean hanging negroes for relations with a white gal, or refusing employment on basis of colour). They are just comments that we have all copped somewhere in our lives that we turn our back on. And in the time honoured tradition of sledging they don't rate... not funny, no intelligence required, just attempted insults from someone that can't think of anything better. Get over it!:D

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Originally Posted by Ron Dunn

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.

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Tell us more Mr Righteous.

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Originally Posted by Groggy

As a kid I can remember batsmen being given 'not out' and walking anyway.

That is sportsmanship, and leaves a strong impression on kids. I shudder to think what kids are learning from this.

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It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.

What do 99.75% of players do...they stay.

Gilchrist is the only player that comes to mind who has recently walked...and he doesn't do it all the time, only when he thinks he hit it, and he has been shown to snick them and not walk, and get away with it.

Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!

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Originally Posted by MrFixIt

Hi



What really gets me is that Australia are VISIBLY CHEATING it's absolutely clear on the videos shown on the media, yet they STILL win that's NOT right :((.



*IF* Australia win another match and make it an unbroken 17 matches in a row (a new record) THIS match will always be remembered and the Aussies will ALWAYS be thought of in wonder, people will wonder if the Aussies could have done the same by playing HONESTLY - BY THE RULES!

In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low.

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Please point out any rules that have been broken. Australia has played within the rules. The Indians can pack up their bat and ball and go home for all i care. It looks like a big case of sour grapes to me and they are trying to salvage something back home. If they lose 3 straight the Indian fans will be burning effegies of their own players.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.

What do 99.75% of players do...they stay.

Gilchrist is the only player that comes to mind who has recently walked...and he doesn't do it all the time, only when he thinks he hit it, and he has been shown to snick them and not walk, and get away with it.

Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!

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No news in there Geoff. I don't follow the cricket or football any more for precisely those reasons. It used to be that cricket was a test of character and skill, hence it being called a gentlemen's game. Now, like other sports, there is nothing noble about it, it is just a grubby scramble for cash, not something you would want kids to role model themselves from.

Wongo, there's an old Malaysian saying which goes:

"If, when walking through the jungle, you come across an angry cobra and a smiling Indian, kill the Indian first".

I've found its sentiment to be good advice.

Keep going

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Originally Posted by jmk89

"Monkey" is the internationally recognised form of racist taunt to black sportsmen - if you go to a soccer match in Europe it is not uncommon for the crowd to heckle black players every time they receive the ball with monkey noises. And the clubs get fined for this if it happens on the basis that it is racist.

So for anyone to use "monkey" to a black sportsman is to use a word as bad as calling an indigenous Australian a "boong". So far, 'goose' means "fool'" or "dill" but is not racist.

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Yes, poor bloody monkeys can't defend themselves. Common Punter, give them hell in Perth.

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Originally Posted by Groggy

No news in there Geoff. I don't follow the cricket or football any more for precisely those reasons. It used to be that cricket was a test of character and skill, hence it being called a gentlemen's game. Now, like other sports, there is nothing noble about it, it is just a grubby scramble for cash, not something you would want kids to role model themselves from.

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Its sad, :( but that is the way it is. Look at all the problems world wide across all "sports" now with performance enhancing drugs, gambling, both legal and illegal, it is all about money.

The players are having a lend if they think we look up to them as "sportspersons" all they are is employees of whatever parent organisation, be that the AFL, Cycling Australia, Swimming Australia, or in this case Cricket Australia.

They are no more role models to Australia's youth than what I am. They are people who perform a function for there employer, just like you and I do.

We make them role models because we say they are, in most cases they have no say in it...and that is wrong.

Unfortunately SW Asian customers are the only ones that I insist on 100% deposit when they order from me. Bitter experience. Similarly I found a high degree of discrimination in India. As a whitey I copped some rather rude remarks from hosties, cabbies, bank, immigration and hotel staff. But then the caste system is alive and well there isnt it. Its the only country Ive been where I dont want to go back.

But that is not the point, as someone said would they be so noisy if they had won or drawn, which it looked like they would.... till the 2nd last over. From my point of view Kumble was man of the match for sheer bloodyminded stubborness in defending his wicket. There was a lot of very determined play by both sides, a brilliant test match, the best in years.

I think its all just a way to sell a few more newspapers, both here and in India.

Bl..dy oath padre!!And take their bats with them:((

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Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

So using the logic that if you hit it and don't walk you are cheating because you know you are out, then equally if like Ponting, you hit it into your pads and are then given out LBW, you shouldn't go because you know you are not out.

If a batsman has to accept the umpires bad calls of out against him, then it is only fair that they can also take advantage of an umpires bad calls in his favour

It is up to the umpire to say whether you are out, not up to the player to confirm it for him.

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There is NO excuse for being dishonest, period!

It takes a big man to "do the right thing" under difficult circumstances, Andrew Simmonds is no longer such a big man in the eyes of kids etc. This kind of play / attitude is teaching young people it's ok to be dishonest expecially if you can get away with it.

To walk when you know you're not out, but the umpire has ruled you out is ALSO "doing the right thing".

As has been mentioned, this is SPORTSMANSHIP!

Sportsmanship, ha! that's almost dead and buried in cricket. So much for what USED to be called the "GENTLEMANS" game - there are few such gentlemen in the Aussie team.

The saying "what goes around comes around" is true and some repercussions are in process now.

I gather you are within the 71% whereas you can gather I am in the dwindling minority of 29% that STILL think honesty is the best policy. :2tsup:

NO offence or agitation is intended in this post :)

.

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Originally Posted by NCArcher

Please point out any rules that have been broken. Australia has played within the rules.

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Andrew Simonds hit/nicked the ball and was caught. According to the rules, that is OUT. Andrew Simonds stayed at the crease even though he knew AND ADMITTED that he knew he was out - THAT is cheating!!!

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If they lose 3 straight the Indian fans will be burning effegies of their own players.

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More likely the Indians will be burning effigies of the Aussies or the umpires because the Indian loss may be due to the cheating or bad umpiring.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.

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This is STILL no excuse for being dishonest!!! :no: :no:

What you are implying is that it's ok to cheat and stay at the crease and then accept payment for being DISHONEST :o

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Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!

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WHAT? :? It puts LESS pressure on the umpire if the umpire can rely on the honesty of the batsman to walk if he knows he was out - that honesty has long since gone .

Gentlemen, and i use the term loosly
I, as an ex cricket fan have been waching this thread, most comments re racism are trying to be even handed.
but one or two of you are displaying a hatred bordering on the fanatic.
I think we all know that some comments and name calling are racist in intent.
as somone pointed out, one oz to another, the term bastard can be a term of endearment.
I think only a fool would try to argue that Monkey, kafir, boong etc are not deliberate terms of racial abuse.

The joy of cricket used to be in the good will and sportsmanship teams displayed to one another, the ovation given to clive lloyd springs to mind.

This seems to have disappeared and dont blame the media they only feed off the spectators.

Some of you are a discrace to australian sport.

Astrid


thats why

MrFixIt, you seem to be under the impression that there once was a golden age in cricket when everyone walked when they snicked a ball and were caught behind. This "Golden Age" never existed. WG Grace (yes, the doctor himself) stated that he would never walk. Many prominent players throughout history have stated that they would never walk. Some of the greatest players in history were not walkers. Some players were, and there has been a time, particularly at first class level and below (but not above) when walking predominated. But it was never universal.

I played a fair bit of cricket in my youth, and I've watched a lot more and read about much more than I've watched. I always walked. But I played with a lot of players that didn't, and to my mind I thought they should, as a moral thing. But it isn't against the laws of the game not to walk. I know of two brothers (related to me - I know them well), one always walked, the other didn't believe in walking at all. Which of them is right? According to the laws and history of cricket, both of them are right. I have come to accept and even respect that one person's views on this subject are not necessarily valid for all. Symonds is not a cheat. Ponting is not a cheat. They are both permitted, within the laws and traditions of cricket, to not walk. As they are to walk if they choose. Having known a couple of umpires in my time, they always reckoned that the worst type of batsman to officiate in front of was the bloke that walked sometimes - because they never knew if he was 'out' or not. The truth is you are 'out' if the umpire gives you out.

Now personally, I would prefer that all players walked. But I would also prefer not to have a third umpire. I'd prefer to rely on the decision of the umpires on the field, and I'd go so far as to stop any slow motion replays from square of the wicket, or things like hawkeye and snicko. In my opinion these things undermine the authority and respect that umpires are entitled to. I believe that the performance of every test umpire should be formally reviewed after every test match, by the ICC, and the panel of umpires should consist of those umpires that consistently perform at a high level and without bias. I think that would sort these problems out.

Bucknor has now been dropped from the next test, which I think is the right thing to do. But it shouldn't have been done because India complained - it should have been done because of his poor performance (and he has a recent history of such poor performances unfortunately). Benson also had a shocker. The appointing of umpires shouldn't be reliant on whether a team complains.

Unfortunately, I think Harbhajan will be 'exonerated' of the racist charges, because of political pressure. IMHO, he is clearly guilty as charged, and the Indian team management should be reprimanding him rather than supporting him. That they are not, and are instead attempting to cast aspersions on the Australian team diminishes them and the game that they are meant to support. I am appalled that the game that I love so dearly is coming to the stage where it is being run by money and politics rather than by the truth. Personally I couldn't care less if there was no money involved in test cricket. It would still go on, because there will always be blokes like me who would play for free.

Someone else's turn....

Edit: I also meant to include one of the best sledges I've ever heard of (courtesy of Fitzy in the SMH). The Voss brothers were playing against each other in the AFL, and the younger was lining up to take an important kick at goal. The elder, standing on the mark, just before the kick, says "My dad slept with your Mum". Incontrovertible, and completely effective (the kick missed).

Poppa, you couldn't have said it any better.:2tsup:

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Originally Posted by Wongo

Lets just ban cricket all together. Stupid game.:~

:D

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I was going to suggest that , but didn't want to be sledged.:D



Kev.

I like the assumption implicit in

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Unfortunately, I think Harbhajan will be 'exonerated' of the racist charges, because of political pressure. IMHO, he is clearly guilty as charged,

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There is no evidence other than Symonds and Gilchrists statement. The other statements were hearsay - Punter and the rest apparently said that Symonds told them he said it. Tendulka on the other hand claims that it was not said. On the evidence of the game who would you believe? He may well have but the evidence is a bit thin.

I don't care if they walk or don't walk as long as they are consistent. Punter clearly was out caught behind but elected to await the umpires decision. When given out to a dodgy LBW later on he had a tanty on the way to the dressing room and let everyone know it was a dodgy decision. If he accepts the first decision then he should accept the second one. IMHO I think it would be better for the game if no one walked and everyone accepted the decision without the selective tantrums.

Remember Katich having a dummy spit while he was walking back to the pavilion in the Ashes loss. It was a bad decision but he still got fined.

Notice how there is no talk about Dravid's dummy spit..

I'm sick of them already.

In any event, the Indians are hopeless. How can a country of one billion not produce 11 decent or consistent players (at any sport for that matter).

What gets me is that this team were playing for a draw at best. A draw. They didn't cop 10 bad decisions in getting out for 200 odd runs again. They are just crap. Nothing new there.

Wot Waldo said.
and
"In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low."
It has caught up with them at last.

Rich, spoilt, bad sport Indian players.

ICC putting money before the game.

Aussies sooking and dobbing being little goody goodies.

It wasn't just the Indian side that lost, it was international cricket.

I'll now treat cricket as I do AFL - as a joke and ignore it apart from celebrating whenever those 2 sports/corporates encounter problems.

Let's hope they all go broke and a new organisation takes their places so we can enjoy top level sport without emphasis on money and politics.

These issues could all be solved you know, by allowing the crowd to have fun again.

Bring back racial taunts, bottled drinks, cameras, cut lunches, backpacks, mexican waves, beer snakes, and pretty much everything else.

If the ACB allowed the crowd to have fun, no one would give a bugger about a curry muncher calling a golliwog a monkey.

No one would care about crook decisions either, the umpires would get the shellacking they deserve at the time, and wouldn't make so many bad ones in a day for fear of genuine crowd retribution.

P
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by boban

Remember Katich having a dummy spit while he was walking back to the pavilion in the Ashes loss. It was a bad decision but he still got fined.

Notice how there is no talk about Dravid's dummy spit..

I'm sick of them already.

In any event, the Indians are hopeless. How can a country of one billion not produce 11 decent or consistent players (at any sport for that matter).

What gets me is that this team were playing for a draw at best. A draw. They didn't cop 10 bad decisions in getting out for 200 odd runs again. They are just crap. Nothing new there.

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Boban's right. Regardless of whether Symonds was out or not, the Indians were unable to bowl a ball that repeated the "out" until he reached well into his hundred. They were comprehensively beaten in Melbourne, could not maintain their wickets for 78 odd overs in Sydney, despite their much vaunted batting lineup and now, won't play unless they have a new umpire. I also wish they'd just flounder on home now.

Rob

i am so over hearing about this at the moment but.. the indians should really get over it. theyre accusing the aus team of being bad sportpeople where as they are the ones that cant get over a few mistakes.. they should really listen to themselves as it is ONLY A GAME

now im satisfied:D:rolleyes: