Electrics & Plumbing - What Am I Allowed To Do?

This is not the place to lobby for a change in legislation. I can assure you that little Johnny is not reading this.

I think the thread asked a valid question. People coming here from the UK and elsewhere don't know what they can and can't do. I think the original poster has asked a very valid and smart question. What can I do? How many people ask that before leaping in?

As I've argued until I'm blue in the face, it's not that I agree with the laws, it's not that I have never broken them, it's not that I don't realise that plenty of people are capable of doing their own wiring, many probably better than a licensed sparkie would.

It is simply that, as an illegal activity, I don't feel that we should be advising people to ignore the regulations and go ahead and do it anyway. That's all. Simple, really.

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Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

Why not work for change instead of just saying No Can Do? :)

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I'm all for change.

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Originally Posted by silentC

This is not the place to lobby for a change in legislation.

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On the contrary Silent, I think this is an excellent place to start a process of change. The very fact that we have people questioning the justification for the electrical regulations in Australia is an excellent start for the process of change. We should be discussing the justifications for the regulations and why we are out of kilter with the US and UK (who seem to have better safety outcomes!)

Well, fair enough. And of course Little Johnny is not reading this thread. And even if he were (is that Subjunctive or Future Perfect? I always get confused). I realise we are not going to change the world as we know it, but for heavan's (sp?) sake, please don't get blue in the face. You are too valuable to the Forum to lose to a stroke. :wink: :)

[BTW, I have been known to be a possum stirrer. :D I learned it from Cliff.]

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On the contrary Silent, I think this is an excellent place to start a process of change.

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OK, fair enough. Yes we should discuss it here. I just don't believe that the discussion should be along the lines of "I've been doing my own wiring for years and if I can do it, so can you."

It only ever seems to come up when people ask questions like this one. So let's have a thread on why we should change the legislation.

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for heavan's (sp?) sake, please don't get blue in the face.

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I don't really get blue in the face. Just a little bit red sometimes :)

It's funny, in person people know when not to take me seriously because they can see the look on my face. I probably come across like a Nazi on here. Oh well, it's time for coffee. Oops, there goes the blood pressure again...

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Originally Posted by silentC

. I probably come across like a Nazi on here.

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Nein mein Fuhrer. Sie sint eine "pussycat." :D :D

Go easy there Bob :p

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Originally Posted by silentC

Go easy there Bob :p

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Good idea. I've had my tablet and now I'll have a lie down. :p :wink:

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Originally Posted by silentC

You guys just don't get it at all, do you?

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:? nup. :no: .and its so stagggggggggering that I don't.

So I'll call a pro for know on. Pay the $100 up front fee etc everytime some kid puts too much toilet paper down the toilet, or I need a light bulb changed. Better to be safe than sorry.

Why is it legal to change a light bulb yourself ? Couldn't I die when I take the light bulb out then accidently slip my finger in the socket . jeeeeesus. I COULD DIE :oo: Light bulb changing should be illegal too. I mean we're not even told on the light bulb packets NOT to stick your finger in the socket! :oo: At least they could tell us to turn off the mains power first just to be on the safe side.

Just as there's people out there who arn't capable of changing switches in walls, there would be people who can't change light bulbs. WHO SHOULDN'T EVER DO IT ! So, I definetly reakon light bulb changing should be illegal by anyone other than a fully trained electrician. So, we can ensure that those people will never ever miss their nose and accidently lodge it instead in that light bulb socket.

I'm going to stop jaywalking too uno. Its illegal. And uno what, when my cars accross the road, instead of doing what I normally do and just cross the road to get to it, I'm going to walk 2 blocks to find a zebra crossing (so its safe to cross), cross, then walk back those 2 blocks to my car. That way I can be certain that I won't get hurt, and most importantly that I don't break the law.

:)

See, you still don't get it do ya? You haven't understood a word I've written. You're still arguing as if you think I'm saying the laws, such as they are, are wonderful.

I couldn't give a rats what you do. Jaywalk, do your own wiring who cares? I do all of the above and more. What I'm objecting to is people coming on here advising others to break the law. Dumb.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I do all of the above and more.

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:oo: :oo: :oo: whhhaaaaaaat ! you jaywalk. :oo:

Shyte yeah. I live in a country town. Everyone does it, don't they? No-one ever gets booked, it's just a dumb law that nobody ever gets fined for :wink:

BTW I rang a guy from the Dept of Fair Trading in NSW about this topic a couple of months ago and he told me that householders quite often get busted and fined. His words "happens all the time". I have no stats on it, just passing on what he said...

I met someone who got fined for jaywalking once too.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I met someone who got fined for jaywalking once too.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought jaywalking is when you choose not to use a proper crossing that is within something like 50m(?) of where your are. If there was no nearby crossing within that distance, you are allowed to cross the road - with care. So just maybe you are not jaywalking?

Crossing at a light controlled pedestrian crossing when the little man is red.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I met someone who got fined for jaywalking once too.

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So, why do you risk it yourself ? its breaking the law, and what you've just said is encouraging others to think that its ok.

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Originally Posted by silentC

BTW I rang a guy from the Dept of Fair Trading in NSW about this topic a couple of months ago and he told me that householders quite often get busted and fined. His words "happens all the time". I have no stats on it, just passing on what he said...

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yeh, I agree that no doubt it happens. but I betya, your chances of getting in trouble with the law would up there with say your chances of getting hit by lightning or whatever.

I agree that encouraging people to break the law is probably not a good thing, so I can see your concerns, but as you'd know, you'd have to be a mug to follow it sometimes. Better IMO, to focus on attaching those switch wires right. Gota keep your mind on the job eh. Don't want to be distracted by any thoughts of getting caught. :D

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Originally Posted by silentC

Crossing at a light controlled pedestrian crossing when the little man is red.

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Yep - that's a no no.

I saw someone caught by a cop controlling a major intersection in Melbourne one time. The cop told him to go back to the side he started from. The guy argued that it would be shorter and quicker to continue to the other side. I liked the cop's response "Continue across and I'll give you a ticket, or go back and consider it a warning". Good old seat of your pants diplomacy!

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So, why do you risk it yourself ? its breaking the law, and what you've just said is encouraging others to think that its ok.

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Have you not read my signature line? Hmmm??

Look, all I'm saying is that every time we get one of these threads, as far as I'm concerned the reply should be "get a sparky" because that's the responsible thing to say, I reckon. If you want to have a debate about how things should be, I'm all for it. I agree. I wish I could go to TAFE and do a course and get a bit of paper that says I can wire my own house.

If it was a thread about jaywalking, I would say "it's illegal to cross when the little man is red and you can be fined for doing it" end of story. I'm not going to say "but if you want to do it, I'll tell you how to get away with it" or "don't worry, you wont get caught, I do it all the time".

The chances of someone getting hit by a car are probably somewhat higher than getting electrocuted I suppose, but still, it's illegal and things can go pear-shaped, sometimes quite badly.

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Originally Posted by silentC

See, you still don't get it do ya? You haven't understood a word I've written. You're still arguing as if you think I'm saying the laws, such as they are, are wonderful.

I couldn't give a rats what you do. Jaywalk, do your own wiring who cares? I do all of the above and more. What I'm objecting to is people coming on here advising others to break the law. Dumb.

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I've resisted and not posted on the IQ thread or the religion one but I can't do it any longer.

What you don't get is that doing it is illegal but discussing it is not. I can tell you all about it, and it wont be illegal. Our NZ friends could even legally act on any information given.

This perpetual argument is somewhat tiresome, but suffice to say that we (those who don't mind discussing electricity) realise that to do your own wiring is illegal (even running the wires). How is giving someone the knowledge on how it all works "advising" them to break the law. It's not, the information is readily available without breaking the law. So discussing this information cannot be said to be illegal.

Tell me silent, if I post this:

Red or Brown Wire = Live, Active or Positive

Black or Blue Wire = Neutral or Negative

Green/Yellow Wire = Earth

Have I just advised someone to break the law? You've told us before how you picked it up so what is posted here (on this forum) that is so objectionable.

Perhaps we should all preface our comments by saying "if you were in NZ you could do this legally..."

Or is it just that you like to fish Silent?:wink:

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Well, uno, you can do what ever you like ... not as if you'll ever really get in trouble with the law.....its just a matter of whether or not you'll do it right and not kill yourself.

Doing it for yourself well why not.

As far as changing sockets well if you know how why not.

I feel if you know what you are doing do it

So, IMHO, if you have the experience then do it.

Do it correctly and there are no problems.

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I've resisted and not posted on the IQ thread or the religion one but I can't do it any longer.

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If you've got something to say, don't hold back. I promise I wont cry.

Yep, that's encouraging someone to break the law as is telling them to do the grunt work by running wires etc. That's not the point I'm making. I think you know that, but perhaps I shouldn't have used that quote to make the point.

You said that the blanket answer to these questions should be "get a sparky". That is the part I disagree with. For mine, we should be able to discuss the issue then let the person decide for themselves what they are going to do.

Not all of us need the cotton wool approach.

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Originally Posted by silentC

If you've got something to say, don't hold back. I promise I wont cry.

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I forgot to add the :D after that. In any event I had nothing of merit to add to those threads.

OK, I can break this debate down into two fundamental points of view which I hold:

1. Doing your own wiring is illegal in this country for better or for worse. I believe that the lines I quoted above are intended to make the reader think that it's OK to do it anyway. From a responsible point of view, I think it is wrong, given the fact that this is a public forum, not a chat around the table at the local pub between mates.

2. I think there are people who definitely should not attempt it anyway, even if it wasn't. For two reasons: a) some people just don't have the intuitive understanding required. Not every sparky gets through his apprenticeship. Some people just don't get it. It's not a question of intelligence, but some people's brains are wired differently. b) a lot of people are very slapdash about adhering to standards - sloppy workmanship - she'll be right mate. Yes there are trades like that, but at least their work has to be inspected.

I know a bloke who is no doubt in the genius end of the scale in IQ. He is a very intelligent chap. But there are some things that are totally logical to me that he just does not get. I would be very afraid of getting him to wire up a point, let alone an entire house.

I understand the desire to discuss these things. I think it's a bit hypocritical to accept on the one hand that it's illegal but to help people out anyway, but life is full of contradictions. I'm presenting a strictly above board approach, I know that. It's pedantic, I can't help it, that's the way I'm wired. I'm also an argumentative SOB. Sometimes I take the opposing view to see where it goes.

We're never going to agree, so I'll just go on saying "get a sparky" and you guys keep doing what you're doing. If the reader (who could be anyone of a million people out there) makes a decision based on the information presented, then we can ask no more or no less.

Thank you, and good night!

See :roll:

That guy is an optimist!

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As far as the liability issue goes, I always attach legally drafted disclaimer statements and God willing, I hope to avoid any litigation over well-intended guidance. There are pages on the Internet that will describe in detail how to make bombs and weapons of mass destruction. I would hope that they would be targeted by litigation before myself, or any of my many other colleagues on the net who provide helpful advice on any subject that they feel qualified to assist with.

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And he's a Canadian!

(long low whistle)...................
what topic are we on again??????????

Shall I pop out for some more pizza?

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Originally Posted by DavidG

Yonnee
That would mean that you could do all your own house wiring if the supply came from your own generator and the lead was plugged in.

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COOL!!!:2tsup:

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Originally Posted by DavidG

Sorry but they caught up with that one in the latest batch of changes. The answer is Nope......:~ :C :no:

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Oh well... It's been a few years since I did that course.

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Originally Posted by boban

Yep, that's encouraging someone to break the law as is telling them to do the grunt work by running wires etc

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Huh!!:?

Why would it be illegal to feed a piece of plastic coated copper through a length a plastic pipe, and attaching it to the frame work of a shed or house every few hundred mm?

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OK, I can break this debate down into two fundamental points of view which I hold:

1. Doing your own wiring is illegal in this country for better or for worse. I believe that the lines I quoted above are intended to make the reader think that it's OK to do it anyway. From a responsible point of view, I think it is wrong, given the fact that this is a public forum, not a chat around the table at the local pub between mates.

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No issue with the first part. I think the public nature of the forum is more likely to result in any incorrect information being highlighted at an early stage. People are queuing up to jump on any misinformation posted on the forum. I would be more concerned with the pub conversation. If one mate gets it wrong and the others follow the advice.....you be the judge as to what's more likely to result in a tragedy.

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2. I think there are people who definitely should not attempt it anyway, even if it wasn't. For two reasons: a) some people just don't have the intuitive understanding required. Not every sparky gets through his apprenticeship. Some people just don't get it. It's not a question of intelligence, but some people's brains are wired differently. b) a lot of people are very slapdash about adhering to standards - sloppy workmanship - she'll be right mate. Yes there are trades like that, but at least their work has to be inspected.

I know a bloke who is no doubt in the genius end of the scale in IQ. He is a very intelligent chap. But there are some things that are totally logical to me that he just does not get. I would be very afraid of getting him to wire up a point, let alone an entire house.

I understand the desire to discuss these things. I think it's a bit hypocritical to accept on the one hand that it's illegal but to help people out anyway, but life is full of contradictions. I'm presenting a strictly above board approach, I know that. It's pedantic, I can't help it, that's the way I'm wired. I'm also an argumentative SOB. Sometimes I take the opposing view to see where it goes.

We're never going to agree, so I'll just go on saying "get a sparky" and you guys keep doing what you're doing. If the reader (who could be anyone of a million people out there) makes a decision based on the information presented, then we can ask no more or no less.

Thank you, and good night!

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Silent that first submission is hardly up to your usual standards. It could equally apply to tablesaws and some people.

As to hypocrisy, (and this is not a personal attack on you mate), couldn't the same be said of the stance that some laws must be observed, and others not observed, based on your subjective opinion of their benefit or value.

It's probably common ground that most on this forum support the running of wires etc and having the sparky finish off (illegal as it may be) but for heaven's sake don't use your pliers and screwdriver to connect a powerpoint. That, in my submission, is based on the subjective view held by the "call a sparky group" (for want of a better description) that one is dangerous and the other is not. Both are illegal. To agree with one and not the other is hypocrisy if you base your opinion on the legislation.

Now what's for dinner? Any pizza left?

I love these threads....as an electrician who works for a major electrical company and does some work on the weekends to help keep my license paid for....I have also worked in the office of electrical safety.

I think this is all about protect the pay packet of the license holder....I think from memory (perhaps and urban myth) it dates back to when Australia was receiving numerous workers from overseas...Especially those poms....The ETU push this far more than any safety body.....

Anyway, I've seen plenty of dodgy work done by qualifed guys who should know better....I can typically spot a lot of DIY work...why because its almost too good in many instances...right down to the correct colour of tape....

As for the insurance issue...this is p^&* funny - Insurance companies pay when you get drunk and knock over your 20 year old frayed corded heater every day.....

And FFS, we can't solve as many murders in all of Australia as they do on CSI on Sunday night yet we expect the fire department and insurance assessor and Office of Electrical Safety to repel in by helicopter to the site of every electrical incident ready to lift finger prints and serial numbers off arlec cable purchased at bunnies....sorry it just doesn't happen....

Someone dobs you in.....You might get a knock on the door...to which you say "No sir, not me sir...."

To finish my contribution, educate not legislate...that's what the kiwis do....same electrical standards as us....
:)

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Originally Posted by Yonnee

Huh!!:?

Why would it be illegal to feed a piece of plastic coated copper through a length a plastic pipe, and attaching it to the frame work of a shed or house every few hundred mm?

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Stuffed if I know why, it just is. Spartan has a reasonable theory on the subject though.

FROM SILICON CHIP MAGAZINE

You may be able to do your own wiring in New Zealand.

I suppose this fits in with the general picture of Australians being apathetic but this is an issue which affects us all – all people who want to be able to work on electrical equipment. The campaign is really two-pronged. We’re not just campaigning that people should be allowed to do their own home-wiring. There also should be no restrictions on people working on mains-powered equipment.

In countries where it is legal for home-owners to do their own wiring, information on how to do it is freely available. For instance, the New Zealand government sells "code of practice" booklets to home-owners there (NZ$5 each), to provide guidance on various aspects of electrical wiring and appliance repairs. So while ever it is illegal in Australia for home-owners to do their own domestic wiring, the information on how to do it is likely to be unavailable.

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_101731/article.html

To summarise the campaign, we are appealing to the parliamentarians in each state to direct their electrical licensing authority to:
<dir>(a) remove any restrictions which may prevent people from working on mains-powered equipment, whether it is for the purpose of service and repair, restoration or assembly;
(b) produce legislation which is based on the New Zealand Electricity Act and Regulations, which allows householders to do their own "electrical work", including appliance repairs and the installation of fixed wiring.

Letter from Silicon chip magazine
</dir>More on New Zealand’s electrical regulations

Further to my previous letters, I spent almost the whole of March in New Zealand and I had a very informative and productive meeting with a senior official of the Energy Safety Service within the Ministry of Economic Development. Here is a brief summary of some of the things I discovered.
(1). In a comparative study of international annual electrical fatality statistics done by the New Zealand Energy Safety Serv&#173;ice, Queensland consistently had the highest levels of electrical fatalities in Australia. Much more interestingly, Australia had higher levels of electrical fatalities than any other country studied, with the exception of Northern Ireland.
This New Zealand study confirmed the results of a similar study done by the German government, so the results are corrobo&#173;rated. The country with the lowest electrical fatalities (by a huge margin, varying from year to year between 0.5 and less than 0.1 deaths per million of population), is The Netherlands, and this is one of the many countries that allow householder DIY wiring). Australia has the second highest levels of annual elec&#173;trical fatalities (varying between 2.5 and 4 deaths per million of population).
Now Northern Ireland is an extremely turbulent society. Yet by the German and New Zealand comparative studies, Northern Ireland is the only country with higher levels of electrical fatalities than Australia! The Australian statistics reflect the gross irresponsibility of the great Aussie tradition of allowing powerful vested interest groups to "regulate" themselves.
(2). Prior to 1992, it was illegal for any electrician in New Zealand to explain any technical aspect of electrical wiring to anyone who was not a trainee electrician, or not otherwise li&#173;censed to do "electrical work". This prohibition was seen as a serious impediment to the new electrical safety regime and was eliminated in the 1992 changes to the NZ electrical safety re&#173;gime. (It appears there is no similar prohibition in the current Queensland legislation).
(3). Anyone can assist an electrician to do electrical work in New Zealand, without the electrician having to look over that person’s shoulder. So for instance, after an electrician has agreed to supervise your work, you could bolt up the control panel and connect the house cables to it on your own and the electrician would just do a quick check on your work when it is finished.
(4). Only completely new work and extensions, etc, are required to be inspected in New Zealand. You can replace and relocate wiring, power points, switches, etc, without notifying the au&#173;thorities as long as cable lengths are not altered. The exception is wiring in metal conduit. New Zealanders are not allowed to work on systems run through the old metal conduit systems. Howev&#173;er, they can remove all the metal conduit and then rewire the house with modern cable and components.
(5). Interestingly, the overwhelming majority of additions to houses in New Zealand are done on an owner-builder basis, there&#173;fore much of New Zealand DIY electrical work is the wiring asso&#173;ciated with such additions. Of course, entire houses are built by owner-builders in New Zealand and in these cases almost all the wiring is done by the owner.
(6). Specially certified "inspectors" do all required inspec&#173;tions, not ordinary electricians. The "inspectors" are liable for the quality of the inspection but not for the quality of the work. If and when the work appears to be particularly shoddy or unsafe the inspector can refuse to do the inspection.
New Zealanders are advised by their Energy Safety Service to secure the services of an "inspector" before they begin their DIY electrical installation work. These "inspectors" are private operators, not government employees, and of course, the homeowner has to pay for the inspection service. These inspectors advise the homeowner on the technical aspects of the installation if they feel such advice is needed.
(7). The senior NZ Energy Safety Service official I spoke to made it clear to me that homeowner DIY wiring will not change in New Zealand as a result of all the ongoing reviews, which are now largely concerned with the health and safety of electrical work&#173;ers in industry. The attitude of the New Zealand authorities is that there is no danger whatsoever when DIY electrical work is done according to law.
(8). The New Zealand Energy Safety Service has the attitude that old cables, switches, power points and other fittings need to be able to be replaced at low cost. They believe the sorts of dan&#173;gerous situations where people continue to use cable and fittings of questionable serviceability are dramatically reduced by allow&#173;ing householders to replace these items themselves.
(9). Before 1992, electrical engineers and associate engineers in NZ were authorized to do all "electrical work". This has now changed for new graduates though all licenses current in 1992 continue. Recently graduated engineers and associate engineers can apply for electrical contractor licenses after fulfilling appropriate (minimal) training.
In Australia, there is no way to avoid the four-year ap&#173;prenticeship. Let’s face it, which electrical contracting busi&#173;ness would take on an adult trainee on adult wages when they can get a teenage apprentice at slave labour rates?
So effectively, there is no practical path to an electrical contractor’s license for engineers and associate engineers in Australia.
(10). When New Zealand decided to reassess its electrical safety regime they sent an official overseas to study the electrical safety regimes in other countries, including the United Kingdom and USA systems. In the National Competition Policy review of electrical safety in Australia, there is no requirement whatsoev&#173;er to even look at "world’s best practice".
(11). In the United Kingdom, electrical licensing is relatively weak and electrical standards compliance is primarily enforced through insurance. The UK, which has long had householder DIY wiring, has annual electrical fatality levels below 1.0 per million of population. Compare that to the Australian figures!
My extensive interactions with New Zealanders were such that I can wholeheartedly confirm the comments of I. Morrison in the January 2001 Mailbag. New Zealand really is a much kinder, fairer society that is much more protective of civil liberties than we are in Australia. So please, wake up Australia!
Otto S. Hoolhorst,
Brisbane, Queensland

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_101973/article.html
<dir>
</dir>

Having only recently recovered from the shock of receiving a couple of bills from sparkies, I can totally understand why they would wish to "protect" their exclusive & highly protected industry. Normal residential work charged at $65 bucks an hour - done by an apprentice???? Special work dealing with upgrading household supply ie, giving work done by my sparkie the once over (Had a bit of a chat about the footy etc, didn't set foot outside a 2 metre radius of his work van & deemed that a 2" piece of conduit was needed to protect the earth wire to the freshly installed earth stake was required, installed a new digital meter, 2 metres from his work van and signed off to the local supply company - 2 hours max - labour charge $330.
I wish I was a sparky!!

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It's probably common ground that most on this forum support the running of wires etc and having the sparky finish off (illegal as it may be)

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As far as I know, you can do it, you can probably wire up power points too if you want - but it has to be done under the direct supervision of a sparky with his supervisor ticket. I can't find anything in the legislation that says the person physically doing the work must be qualified unless a) they are doing it commercially or b) they are not under direct supervision.

I suppose 'direct supervision' is open to interpretation - but I don't think there is anything wrong with you pulling wires for the sparky, as long as he has told you what to do and he inspects the work. So as far as I can tell, there is an opportunity there if you can find a cooperative sparky.

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It could equally apply to tablesaws and some people.

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You're absolutely right, it does. I hold would grave fears if certain people I know ever announced they were going to buy a tablesaw. I usually try to steer clear of that line of argument. I only brought it up because it is the underlying reason why I think a bit of control over what people do with electricity is a good thing. Lowest common denominator protectionism I know. That's why I don't get into it, because it leads to the logical conclusion of preventing everybody from doing anything that might be unsafe.

With regard to wiring, I'm more concerned about the person who buys the house from the DIY sparky than I am about the DIY sparky himself.

As already posted...how does the 'do-it-yourselfer' know that things were correct in the first place....ive seen houses with reverse polarity. When i do elect work on someones house i check a lot of small things that keep people alive, earth resistance/neutrals etc etc. That is what the lic is about.

Industry protection ? Not likely from my point of view...i could go to 20 places tomorrow & get an immediate start on stuff that has nothing to do with power points & lights. Sparks are thin on the ground.

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Originally Posted by zeroseven

had the plumber around yesterday to fit a new pressure release valve.... it's dripping where he connected it to the tank..............So I pay $200 for the professional....and he can't even get that right. And soon I'll have to open my house up to other professionals, I just can't wait.

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I go along with you. In my experience, more often than not, the tradesman does a less than satsfactory job, so I always check to see he's done a good job. I trust my own work before someone else's.

As a plumber Ive had to do a restricted electrical just to be able to replace a baby 50L HWS, LEGALLY. Someone calls me up to replace an electric instantaneous HWS, I call a sparky first off, as they run on 3 phase power. I didnt even pull cables in my own house I got my sparky mate to do the whole lot, as is the same when he renovated his bathroom, he didnt touch anything concerned with water/drainage. This is not about sparkies and plumbers "protecting" their trade as some "handymen" (and I use the term loosely) think, its about safety, there is a reason why there is a code of practice, legal implications, rules and restrictions. It astounds me that people think they can do all this stuff and be 100% confident that theyre not going to blow theyre house up or burn it down to the ground and God forbid hurt or even kill a family member. Ive noticed that no-one here has asked about doing their own gas work, though people dont realise that water and power can cause just as much damage with the same devestating results. Example, my sister rented a house recently where the gas HWS had ???? itself. The owner, a "handyman" as a lot of investment property owners are, had replaced this HWS. She called me up saying she didnt think it looked "right". I get over there, he had put a 135L outdoor gas HWS inside in the laundry, un-flued, used a water easy hooker on the gas from the ball valve to the heater, and instead of a TPR valve screwed a hose cock in instead. Without going into details, a storage HWS has the potential to take out half a house under these conditions. And dont get me started on Bunnings..........................

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Originally Posted by mick101

As already posted...how does the 'do-it-yourselfer' know that things were correct in the first place....ive seen houses with reverse polarity.

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there are these great little plug in testers sold at Dick Smith stores that *anyone* can buy and test power points, 5 out of about 12 power points here tested as 'Unsafe' because of 'active / neutral' reversed. These appear to all be original power points (house built in about 1963)

I would not be surprised in similar testers were available for light sockets.

I've back for more pizza and a second question. Beer sadly ran out over the weekend and Dan Murphys felt too far away this evening. :((

I'm in Quakers Hill. Has anyone had a good experience, or can they recommend an electrician/company?

It's a bit of a minefield when you know no-one in the trade and no-one who has any recommendations for you. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Otherwise I'll have to play russian roulette in a couple of weeks with the Yellow pages.

Also, should I buy my own sockets/switches and get the sparky to fit them? No doubt they could get them cheaper than me, but would they generally pass on this saving to you?

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Originally Posted by wonderplumb

This is not about sparkies and plumbers "protecting" their trade as some "handymen" (and I use the term loosely) think, its about safety, there is a reason why there is a code of practice, legal implications, rules and restrictions. It astounds me that people think they can do all this stuff and be 100% confident that theyre not going to blow theyre house up or burn it down to the ground and God forbid hurt or even kill a family member.

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It could be worth your while reading up on some statistics on electrical safety and compare countries that allow people to do their own wiring with Australia. See if you can find some statistics to support your proposition that it is safety.

Also, there are people who are very knowledgeable in electrical matters (not just "handymen") who cannot obtain a wiring licence without having to do a four year apprenticeship.

Closed shop - yep.

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Originally Posted by zeroseven

Also, should I buy my own sockets/switches and get the sparky to fit them? No doubt they could get them cheaper than me, but would they generally pass on this saving to you?

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It won't make any difference.
Sure, tradies can & do get a better price on hardware, 20 to 30&#37; and maybe more than that (for the big players). Do they pass this saving onto you - NO WAY.