Yee ha!!
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Yee ha!!
Touche :DQuote:
Originally Posted by silentC
How many it people are cowboys?
13,248
OK, I'm in a generous mood so I'll give the fellow an answer.
I say it does.Quote:
Mate there are cowboys out there but wat your saying does not define a cowboy
Didn't know there was a formal meaning for the term as it pertains to tradespeople. Can you post a reference?Quote:
the word is thrown around far to much by people nowing little about the meaning,
Never said I was. Not sure what this has to do with it though. Are you saying that only a tradesperson is allowed to call someone a cowboy? Union thing is it?Quote:
i have a feeling you are not a tradesperson and neva have been would i be correct.
And used in accordance with manufacturers directions. Could not agree more.Quote:
A job should be done to trade standard and australian standard with products fit for the job at hand.
We've only got your word for that but in any case who says that you need qualifications to have an opinion? Are you saying that only a person who has received apprenticeship training in a trade has a right to have an opinion on anything to do with the building industry? I think that the fact that it's my hard-earned money you are taking from me gives me every right to have an opinion.Quote:
I am a very successful tiler and have done my apprenticeship and other higher tickets in the trades field so i do have a right to an opionon on this matter.
I don't give a **** how you mix it. But if it says to prime the surface first, or not use it in wet areas, or not exceed 10mm in thickness or whatever you better follow it or it will be your asre that will be getting kicked if it fails in 2 years time.Quote:
The information on products such as cements ect is guide only and usually based for handy man jobs not large areas most the time youll evan be told to mix it by bucket would like ur plasterer to do ur house bucket by bucket?.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
That sounds like an onageristic assessment :DQuote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I assure you it was based on the same stringent methodology I apply to all of my estimates :)
you mean it was a wild guess then !!!! :D
Hint: an onager is an asian "wild ass".....Quote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
My dear old Dad was the principal of a Tech College( You youngsters know it as a TAFE):doh:
He told me, way back in the 60s that "The trades are buggered":oo::oo:
When I asked why, he said that Tech courses were "infra dig" and that the system was having to lower its admission standards to accommodate and attract trade students.(You oldsters will remember the "Clever Country''slogan---everyone had to have a Uni degree!):o:o
Talk to any old "Tradie", and he'll tell you what his apprentices DON'T know, not what they DO.They are undertrained and over paid.Bring back the Premium, say I.:2tsup::2tsup:
That's why any tradie under 50 yr old who does work for me does it "a la plumbers' handbook!!""
It's too bloody easy to cut corners!! :no::no:
An Onager is also a machine for chucking rocks, dead dogs etc at the enemy.
The whole world is full of cowboys, Silent C. It is also full of heroes. Our job is to recognise them. a retired copper once told me that the only reason anyone ever gets conned is because ,deep down,they think they are actually putting one over on the con artist. the BCA and its other state equivelants were not put in place to protect you. They were put in place to siphon a tax upon the activity of the building industry. It has always been your job to sort the goodies from the baddies, and it always will be. There is nothing wrong with this; it is a major part of evolution. Is that a Tiger making the long grass move, or a vagrant puff of wind?:)
You don't need to tell me that :)Quote:
The whole world is full of cowboys
The reason I started this thread (and it was a year and a half ago) was to get a reaction from some of the people in the building industry who frequented the forums back then. Since we've split off the building stuff into the renovation forums, most of them no longer come here.
Some of these guys were running a de facto building advisory service in which they would often tell people to ignore the installation instructions because they never followed them themselves. To my mind, that is bad advice to give and bad advice to follow. It led me to question the quality of the jobs being done by these guys themselves given the fact they seemed to feel you could ignore what the manufacturer said about their own products. I've seen nothing here to convince me otherwise.
It has nothing to do with the BCA or trade qualifications.
hey SC is retreating. :o
Don't bet on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
My guess is a small tactical retreat so as to regroup and push for an all out final assault. :D:D
Don't believe it - it's a trap!Quote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
SC,
How can you assert that your Thread had nothing to do with trade qualifications when you constantly refer to "Trades" and "Tradies" as the people most likely NOT to follow the manufacturers' instructions.
At the risk of being accused of going back on my original rant, only well trained and experienced tradesmen would be selective enough to know WHICH instructions could be ignored, and, in the opinion of a lot of experienced (read "OLDER) tradesmen of my acquaintance, apprenticeships nowadays are to "Narrow and Shallow".
I ,as a practicing Luddite, am very aware that technology moves on, but most of the raw materials are still the same, and, if you understand them, you're half way there.
I cannot comment on the Building Codes.I'll leave that to someone with more experience!!!!
I can assert that because I started the thread and I know what I was on about.
The reason that trades come into it is because they are the people doing the work. I would not walk into a pub and say to the drunk in the corner "hey would you like to come and do some plastering for me", would I? So it is natural to assume that the people I am referring to are (or consider themselves to be) trades.
It's not about whether or not a person has qualifications. It's about people who say things like "they're just covering their arses" as they throw the installation instructions in the bin.
But a tradie plasterer might walk into a pub and say to the drunk in the corner "hey would you like to come and do some plastering for me" when he needs someone with a weak mind and a strong back to hump the sheets sround and lift them up while the tradey fixes the sheets to the frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
What's wrong with that?
Nothing - but the plasterer is responsible for making sure the job is done to standards, not the drunk. You don't need a qualification to hang plaster, you don't even need one to run wires - anyone can do either. But you need a contractor's license to do both and it is under that license that the assumption is made you will follow standards and provide a warranty.
Answer me this: to use the example of the Duragal deck frame. Would you ignore the manufacturer's recommendation to not use screws?
Probably not as I haven't worked with duragal, so I cannot draw on practical experience.
Even if you have worked with Duragal, the only way you're ever going to have personal experience regarding the use of decking screws with Duragal is if you have laid a deck that way, in which case you have ignored the manufacturer's recommendations for the use of their product without prior experience to back it up. Catch-22 :)
I suppose you could ask around and find someone who has done it that way. Maybe they laid the deck 5 years ago and there's no sign of rust on the joists. They might be lucky. Still, would you put your ar.se on the line over it? Most builders/carpenters I talked to reckoned it was BS and they would use decking screws if that's what the client wanted. But then how many of them have ever laid a deck over Duragal? My guess: none.
Or maybe you would call OneSteel and ask them why they don't recommend screws. That's what I did. But then I'm not a tradesman.
I find the building industry bizzarre. I know some people who are master craftsmen, but they are either retired altogether or out of the trade due the beaurocracy.
I am astounded at the utter stupidity of some of the people I find in building. Some examples:
My ladyfriends house is in part on a slab at the back. The bricklayer layed one wall about 1/3 brick off the slab.
She has just had a timber retaining wall rebuilt that collpased in last years storm. They went on all along about the uprights needing to be thick side perpendicular, but built the wall with the wide side to the horizontals, after weeks of condeming it being built that way before. They also managed to build it 1 horizontal too low, and dead vertical. Then they raked out the remaining fill instead of using it behind the wall, now I've got to rake it up again and backfill, and the wall is too short to properly retain the neighbours land.
The building industry has layered checking. This doesn't provide quality, it disperses blame so no one is accountable. The mining industry have learned the same trick. Decision by committee so it no ones fault, but costs twice as much. A licensed tradesman works for a licenced builder, with a licenced inspector looking over his shoulder, and a set of plans from a chartered engineer all overseen by council, state government and building authority. Absolute BS. Cunningly designed to discourage people who want to build good houses and effect a monopoly to the institutional building firms.
I'm bitter because I want to move, but every option is not easy.
So what else have the romans ever done for us :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Groggy
Is that cause he's already plastered :DQuote:
Originally Posted by silentC