Yes, the heating cable is laid out on top of the screed and is just tiled over. It does not go under any fixtures like vanity and toilet. I hope it performs as well as the reports say it does.
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Yes, the heating cable is laid out on top of the screed and is just tiled over. It does not go under any fixtures like vanity and toilet. I hope it performs as well as the reports say it does.
Need to make urgent decision on location of floor waste outlet and how best to tile the floor
https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...701#post587701
Attachment 55760
Here is my original plan showing the tiling on the diagonal in the hope that would make the room looked wider. Really never gave much thought to the location of the floor waste outlet expecting it to be in the middle.
For what it's worth...
We have a diagonally tiled bathroom, and we have a straight border around the edges.
The border follows the outside of the shower screen, and the pattern repeats inside the shower - there is a border tile all around the inside of the shower, and the centre of the shower is diagonal tiles matching the angle and lines of the main floor.
I've seen it done where the shower is tiled as part of the main floor - the border 'cuts through' the shower screen, and the shower only has a border on the edges closest to the outer wall.
Both look good. I suspect you may find it hard to do a border around the shower without it looking strange because of the size of your tiles. ours are 195mm squares.
You probably need to make some copies of your plan and draw some alternatives on it until you find something you like.
Floor trap, I'd put it in the middle of the floor adjacent to the vanity...
Heated floor is wonderful, but not very economical or eco-friendly :)
woodbe.
Thanks Woodbe,
I will go with a central drain and adjust position after I chose the final floor tile but before I pour the concrete floor. I will consult with a tiler to see what they would charge to screed the floor and lay the floor tiles.
It is undertile heating not in slab and only about 600watts . It seems you only need to have it on for about 30-60mins I am told to get a warm tile surface and a cosy feel. I will install a programmable timer which they supplied and put the heated towel rail on at the same time as the undertile heating.
The plumber arrived on time and took 3 hours to install the pipes for the underfloor plumbing. Inspection is tomorrow and he has marked out the walls for me to chase for the hot and cold water ready for him to install tomorrow.
Attachment 55900
Hot and cold water installed in the bathroom and connected back to old storage HWS to test everything is not leaking and working. Plumber back next week to mount the Rinnai 26 HWS and disconnect the old one. Will also extend the 25mm gas main up into the roof space for future use when the main building renovation takes place (soon I hope).
Ran 20mm hot (insulated) and cold under the floor direct to the kitchen to reduce the length of the 1/2" hot water run that currently exists to the old kitchen. Hope this helps the Rinnai deliver hot water to the kitchen in an efficient manner. Plumber will set the switches in the unit to increase the 55 degree factory preset max to 65 degrees. I will install 2 controllers (bathroom and kitchen).
Have run everywhere in 20mm except at the terminations and valves so hopefully that will not be an issue. Have read quite a few negative threads about water temperature from the Instantaneous HWS not being hot enough to do the greasy dishes and am a bit apprehensive.
20mm Hot and Cold run into the laundry ready for the laundry make over.
Attachment 56181
Attachment 56182
Attachment 56183
I notice you went with 2 floor wastes after all ! how are the tiling issues going?
Doog
Hi Doog,
Plumber would not allow me only one floor waste so I am stuck with 2. Now the inspection is complete I have even considered closing one over and hiding it under the tiles.
Spoke to Beaumont tiles expert and he suggested just tile floor flat with a small rise near the door. He also said he would not bother with tiles on the diagonal. My brain is in overload on the floor tiling issue at the moment. Maybe I should tile floor with smaller tiles and use slopes to the waste?
Planning to put a new floor in next week and will keep the level of the concrete 40mm below the finished height at the door with a further step down of about 20mm in the shower area. How does that sound???
Dodging the tiling issue at present and pressing on to get ready for the plastering.
I have been thinking a full length stainless steel floor channel / grate placed across the bathroom next to the bath hob may be an answer to making the floor tiling job a bit easier.
Attachment 56303
Need to check with the plumber if I can discharge from the floor channel straight into the 80mm riser of the floor trap. If so I will move the floor trap back next to the hob as in the photo in the link above.
I would put one in the shower as well on the wall with the door.
Attachment 56304
This way I can just slope the floor to the floor grate in one plane and that should allow me to use any size tile I desire and make the installation of the undertile heating just a little easier as well. I will still be stuck with one other floor grate in the middle of the floor but there would be not fall direct to that.
Anyone got any thoughts on the grates as a solution to floor falls and multiple floor traps.
Juan, how did you cut those channels in the bricks for the pipe work? What tool(s) were required? Is it very hard to do?
Thanks,
Zac
I believe you can hire a saw with 2 blades and a vacuum cleaner attachment that cuts the slot and avoids the dust. That is what you can do. Or you can be a gumby like me and use a 9" (230mm) Ozito angle grinder with diamond saw to cut the bricks and then use the little Ozito rotary hammer to chisel out the channel. Very easy but the dust is unbelievable. I placed a protable fan in the open window and that sucked the dust directly outside very rapidly but I was still covered in red dust. Wore my daughter's plastic shower cap, an old hat, goggles, mask and old clothes. Had to blow down the walls with my garden blower when finished to get the film of red dust off the walls in the room. Luckily by keeping the door shut very little got into the rest of the house.
Hi Juan,
those full length stainless grates are mega bucks but they look very swish! So you going to put the grate right down near the bath - what about the floor waste in the middle of the room? Stop it off and tile over it ?
Hi Doogie,
Yeah they are not cheap but I think it is the answer to the tiling problem.
The floor trap in the middle will have no fall to it as the floor will be on one plane. I will either just put it there in the tiling or maybe break the rules and tile over it. Worst case senario is I have to take up a tile to get to it if required.
If you tile over the floor trap- Im assuming this is the one at the bottom of the photo, Your basin will not drain properly.
The reason for this is the same reason that when you hold your finger on the end of a drinking straw the water does'nt fall out the bottom, it's an air-lock situation.
The basin line is already at what looks like it's maximum un-vented length from the trap, Tile over the trap and IMHO it won't work.
You can buy a fiting called a "smart tile floor drain" they are expensive ($100) but look good and are easy to install because they are square. And depending on your local regs you can probably fall the floor as tho the second trap isn't there and just install it without the tiles falling to it.
Just my 2 cent's.
My plumber has confirmed what you said Bricks. He also does a lot of work for the Hilton Hotel chain and said steer clear of the stainless steel channel grates as they are difficult to clean and need very regular cleaning to avoid smells from mould etc.
I think the smartile is a consideration. Waiting for tiler to look at it and advise best way to go. Waiting on plasterer also. Hurry up and wait is the name of the game.
Rinnai 26 Plus installed yesterday but still supplying laundry and kitchen from it via old 1/2" copper line. Really happy as can see great improvement and expect even better when the new direct 20mm line to the kitchen is swapped over. We tuned the unit up to 65 degrees for the kitchen and laundry and there is a tempering valve on the 20mm line to the bathroom.
Plasterer has promised me he will come tomorrow morning and hopefully I am all ready for him. I decided to plaster before doing the floor slab to fit in with the plasterer.
The walls of the bathroom have rising damp due to the breaching of the dampcourse. This shows up quite well in the photo attached. House was built in 1914 and suspect the bathroom was done in the 30s.They just loaded soil up against the bricks above the dampcourse and then put concrete on top. No plastic in those days. Luckily there is no other damp in the house apart from the bathroom walls. The house is unusual for the area as the floor level is about 750mm above ground level outside. There is heaps of room to move around under the timber floors. This has been very effective in eliminating damp in all the walls except the bathroom with a concrete floor.
The wall with the hot and cold plumbing is a cavity wall and the cavity was full to about 1metre in height. I had the end open when bricking and managed to clean out the cavity. After the plasterer had gone I will dig down below the dampcourse (old and new) and ensure a plastic film prevents any material from coming in contact with the brickwork or dampcourse. That should isolate the damp undersoil. All the homes in our area have automatic switching sump pumps in the cellars as the water table is quite high and they used to get wet feet in winter. In recent years the water table seems to have dropped and the pump had not run to my knowledge for about 8 years.
Attachment 57041Attachment 57042
Hi Juan,
The lower walls still look a bit damp in the pics. Also the room looks much narrower than before. I'm curious to know what the plasterer uses in there - is he going to glue on gyprock or trowel plaster the walls?
Hi Doog,
Yes there is dampness in the walls and I am told that will take months to disappear but should not be an issue as the source of the dampness will be eliminated. Interestingly it was not so noticeable until I took a photo with the flash.
The walls will be solid plaster. The bathroom renovation quote I received was based on sticking plasterboard direct to the walls and I was not really too keen on that idea and decided to brick up and plaster.
Attachment 57100
Attachment 57101
Plasterer finished first coat on only 3 walls today and is back tomorrow. Bit of a pain for him because there is no floor in yet and ceiling is 3.2m above the dirt. He had to do the top of the wall using a ladder as it was too high for his step up.
The room is 4.2m x 1.95m in size and does look narrow. The ceiling once installed may reduce that feel as may the island bath hob. Problem with old homes is that you have to make do with what you have got in most cases as to move brick walls to make a room wider can be dangerous to your financial stability.
"to make a room wider is dangerous to your financial stability" LOL so true!
I've never seen brown plaster mixes before - do you know what sort of mix he is using? I was was curious about how plaster would stick to slightly damp walls.
Your project is moving along - but pretty soon you are going to have to come to grips with the tiling :U.
Doog
Hi Doogie,
I have been labouring for the plasterer and did all the mixing of the render. Mix ratio he told me to use was 10 parts plastering sand to 2.5 parts cement. Have finished the first render coat and used exactly 1.05 ton of plastering sand and 11 bags of cement. This was considerably more than he estimated and was probably due to the thickness applied to get the walls true.
Tomorrow he will do the skim or setting coat to the top metre of wall which will not be tiled but rather painted. He also plans to do the outside surround of the window to tidy up where we cut it into the 300mm thick sandstone wall.
Yes getting near to the dreaded floor tiling. Have decided to take the plumbers advice against installing the stainless steel floor channel grates as they are a problem to keep clean and odour free apparently and cost like you said an arm and a leg ($1000 to be precise).
My current thinking is that I will relocate the floor trap that is in the middle of the room nearest the bath to a spot near the wall between the bath hob and the toilet pan. I will then screed the floor on a flat plane but sloping diagonally from corner to corner (ie from the door down to the relocated floor trap). That way I will have a perfectly flat floor to tile on yet have a fall to the trap (farthest from the door)in case there is a flood situation. Shower will have its own 20mm set down.
HOW DOES THIS SOUND TILERS OUT THERE?
Looking
whoops what happened there (previous blog) havent been on the site for a while the Missus was starting to think I was having an internet affair! ????ing paranoid aint they!I thought I would check in and see how thing are goin lookin good mate just a quick question did you use any lime when mixing the render? and how thick did you have to puti it on? Did he trowel it on to start with then screed it off setting up batten on the brick wall in stages? Have fun!
No lime just 4 parts good plastering sand to 1 part cement. Make it a bit sloppy. Wet the wall a bit and she sticks like sheet to a blanket. He started at the bottom of the wall and put a strip about 200mm wide horizontal along the wall at the lowest point. He then put another strip about 2m up the wall and used a long straight edge and level to get the strips set up. Real easy. He then had the guide and just filled in between the plaster strips. No battens. Apply with a steel trowel off the hawk.
Then leave a while to set a bit and just use the wooden straight edge to wipe it off to the same depth as the strips. He then went to the top of the wall and set another strip there off the half finished wall. Then continued filling in the top gap and level off with a straight edge. Then used a wood float to get a nice smooth floated finish but roughed it up a little so it would absorb moisture later when applying the skim/set coat.
I would say the plaster on the wall would be about 15mm average but varying beween say 5mm in a few spots to 25mm in other low spots.
The secret is get good sand and make the mix on the weak side. Biggest mistake for us DIYers is making it too strong. We think it is better with more cement but the opposite is the case. Apparently it causes crazing later. Use 4:1 or 5:1 mix.
I would have no qualms about rendering a whole room now after watching the expert in action for 3 days. I would not try the set coat with hard finish plaster though that looks a little more of an acquired skill.
STILL HOPING FOR SOME FEEDBACK FROM TILERS ON MY IDEA FOR THE FLAT TILTED FLOOR AS DISCUSSED IN COUPLE OF POSTS BACK.
Attachment 57276
Cheers
Hoping to pour the floor concrete on Friday. Have got the levels sorted and laid the fortecon film. Tomorrow I will put down the F62 reinforcing fabric and hopefully have a floor by the weekend.
Quite surprised how the room has dried out especially the bottoms of the walls that had rising damp. I have cleared the dampcourse all round and kept the window open. The soil has dried out a treat.
Moved one of the floor waste traps over between the bath hob and the toilet pan and will fall the floor to that waste outlet keeping it flat (but tilted). That should give a gumby DIY tiler like me a fighting chance of laying the floor tiles.
Attachment 57647
cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan
Who moved the floorwaste?, was it the plumber or you?
I'm hopeing that you did'nt just roll the top of the floorwaste over? The riser section must be straight up, and no longer than 600mm.
If the entire waste was moved, i'm hopeing the plumber did it with regard to the correct pipe lengths and falls etc.
If you did it, you'd better ring the plumber and get him to ok it.
A customer once did that exact same thing to me, I walked off the job that day.
If you m
I do not touch things I do not understand. Done by the plumber at great expense
Cheers
As a plumber,
When i hear the words changed, plumber and great expense all in the same sentance it assures me that it was done properly.
By the way- that isn't an easy thing to do so im sure it would have cost a bit.
Cheers.
What he said:2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by bricks
With the 100mm reinforrced concrete floor poured my thoughts are turning to the hob for the bath. I was thinking it might be simpler to maybe build it out of Hebel blocks? We have decided on on a Stylus Classic 1700mm bath which is an island bath (oval shape).
Plumber has asked me to leave a big opening where he has to hook up the bath drain. Unsure whether it is best to tile the top of the hob before Plumber supports the bath in mud and connects it up??
Was thinking I could build a rear wall and two end walls of the hob to support the top. Then use hebel block on top and cut it out to shape of the bath so it can just drop in later. This would allow me to tile the top of the hob although not sure if that is possible given I cannot tile the front of the hob until bath is in and connected and front wall closed with hebel. I am not a tiler and think I have to cut the front edge tiles on the hob to 45 degrees to get a neat external join.
What is the recommended procedute to install an island bath in a brick hob? Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
Firstly have you thought of timber framing and villaboard? (would be much easier.)
Basically you need to......
-Build the framing (block or timber)
-Install the structure of the top
-Cut out hole for bath ( as small as posible)
My advice would be to use timber and villa board for the frame and top.
Install the bath.......
-Have it installed before you tile the hob, otherwise the tiling may be damaged ( baths are normally fairly heavy and awkward to manouver into bathrooms)
-Have the plumber install the bath with villaboard spacers under the lip of the bath, once it's done you can pull them out and slide your tiles underneath the bath to prevent unessesary detail cutting of tiles.
-Allow 10-15mm and leave room for a silicone seal, if the bath lip touches the tiles the silicone seal may break during temperature expansion and contraction due to hot water or seasons changing.
Enclose front of the hob.(block or villaboard.)
-you could, if using block construction, build all of the hob except for a 600mm-800mm section of the hob near the waste, this should allow the plumber enough access while providing strength for the top of the hob. (check with the plumber)
When tiling, use the corner dowel type tile edging on the edge of the hob to give a neat finish or make sure the top tiles extend the thickness of the front tiles to provide a clean factory made edge ( people will sit on the corner edge of the hob and you don't want cut bottoms)
----Just a note with round baths..........
-Make sure you leave at least a 100mm gap at any side ( otherwise you won't be able to clean there easily and the gap with hold soap scum and grime.)
-The lip of a round bath seems not to have the structural strength of a square one and tends to flex alot when you get in or out ( using the bath edge as support). To prevent this, use space invader foam under the lip ( get it in through the gap you leave to slide the tiles in) this will prevent flexing.
After you tile, you probably will seal the bath to the tiled top with silicone, if flexing occurs the silicone seal will quite quickly break and allow splash water into the bath hob.
-While making the hob be carefull not to allow it to have fall into any wall or corner, better to have forward fall to the floor in front ( splash water), but remember with tiles, anything out of level will show up like a big shiney neon sign.
As an after thought- have you thought about ventilation for under the bath? You need some sort of grill/hole to allow air circulation under the bath.
Thanks a million for your help Bricks.
I have allowed exactly 100mm front and back of bath (between edge of bath and wall tile face and 125mm at the ends.
One of the end walls is a cavity wall which I built and I thought I would just knock a brick out of the wall inside the hob to access the cavity and give some sort of ventilation to the under hob area.
With everything being solid construction in the bathroom I just thought I would keep it that way and build the hob with blocks to give it a solid feel.
I will do like you suggest and put spacers along under the rim to facilitate sliding in the tiles later.
Like your idea of using space invader foam under the lip to give added support. Guess I would have to seal a bit between the bath side and the hob top to stop it all just exiting under the bath? Spoke to Stylus the bath manufacturer and they said flexing of the bath rim should not be a problem if the bath is properly seated in mortar bed and silicone sealed under the rim to the tiles.
Will take on board the issues you raised of having a level or slightly sloping tiled hob top and cleaning. Because it is not a shower bath I thought water spillage should be minimal but will of course occur when kids play in the bath.
Will investigate the corner dowel type tile edging (never heard of it as not a tiler) to get a professional finish on the bath hob front edge.
Cheers
If you have cut the hole in the hob tight enough ( within 20-30mm ) of the correct fit then the expanda foam will hold itself there - it doesn't weigh very much and doesnt normally drop of it's own wieght through smallish gaps.
And although venting through to the cavity is something i've not ever seen, I'm at a loss to think of a reason why you can't do it if it's an external wall???? ( think i've just learned something??):2tsup:
Have not touched the hob yet as I thought it might be best to do the ceiling first. Finish from the top down approach.
Have an IXL Silhouette to install.
Has anyone ever put one of these in a suspended ceiling??
The suspended ceiling is 400mm below the old lath and plaster ceiling. I rang IXL and they said to get a length of metal flue 235mm in diameter and to install that directly above the outlet on the fan with a clearance of 50mm between the fan and the flue end. I have cut the hole in the old ceiling and installed the flue as directed.
I am a bit concerned about having a gap of 50mm above the fan inside the gap between the ceilings!! I would have been more comfortable if they had advised me to attach a bit of flexible duct between the flue and the fan outlet.
WHY DO THEY INSIST ON A 50mm GAP?? Is it to get air flow of stop vibration or something?
Cheers
Hi Juan, I've installed several different types of IXL bathroom fans but not the silhouette. In every case the instructions that came with the fan said to attach the flue directly to fan exhuast housing.
Where are you venting the flue at the other end - outside wall or into ceiling cavity (which I would have thought was a no no anyway)?
One system I set up had an intermediatte fan mechanism as well as a primary fan - in that case the instructions said to leave a 50 mm gap between the flue and the second fan unit.
With that system the secondary fan was very powerful and would have shaken the flue around. As it was the secondary fan had rubber mounts and dampening to stop rattles in the ceiling.
I'm not sure why they would recommend the 50 mm gap between the primary fan unit though but maybe the silhouette has a powerful fan .
Doog
Hi Doogie
It seems the silhouette has a more powerfull fan
This is turning into one of the worlds slowest bathroom renovation projects. Have just got the ceiling up and the cornices on. Bit of tidying up and then I will look at the bath hob this week maybe.
Attachment 59428
Nice cornices Juan.
They take a bit of time with a small tool to get the mitres just right, but they look great. :2tsup:
Thanks. They came up ok.
Ended up using Gyprock Aquachek on the ceiling. Had a ceiling fixer give me a quote to install the gyprock Aquachek but when he arrived he said he would just use standard plasterboard and run the sheets parallel with the joists. This was not what had been agreed so I said I would do it myself. He was a little upset but such is life.
I put in some cross supports between the joists and did it that way. It was a lot easier.
Hi Juan - yeh nice cornice ! A bit of gyprock sanding and your ready for Tiling :D. I bet you can't wait ! Lol
doog