Big Electricity Bill

600 watts per hour would be about 10 x12volt halogens - based on 61 watts per fitting. 50 watt globe and 11 watts for the transformer.

We have been installing lots of 240v energy efficient halogen replacements lately. You basically get a 50 watt reduction per fitting based on an 11 watt globe.

Coversion kits 240v to 12v are about 5.95. Globes are about $19.95, but they last significantly longer (50000 hours).

After that, check the side panel on your water pumps - they can draw a lot of power - up to 1400 watts.....

PC draw 175 watts when idle (turn on but not doing anything, 225 watts when operating within normal params. They draw 20 watts when in sleep mode.

No solar hot water David. We have a 315l electric storage job. It uses about 6 or 7kwh per day on Off Peak 1 at 5 cents per kwh.

The water pumps are next on the hit list. Although they wouldn't account for the steady rate throughout the day. I can hear the pumps running from my office and so I know that they rarely come on during the day. We jumped up to 4kwh between 6:15 and 8:30 tonight, which is to be expected.

I'll check out the 240v conversion as well. I'm not convinced the lights are the culprits because we don't leave them on and they're not on during the day, yet we're still doing 1.5kwh per hour, which is roughly the hourly average for the whole day (36kwh). Says to me that our usage doesn't fluctuate too much with the time of day. Also the other house has more halogens and they're all on all the time at night, yet their bill is about 1/4 of ours.

Before I go to bed tonight, I'm going to take a reading and then turn off everything in the house at the wall (besides the fridges). Let's see how much we burn overnight. If I still have a steady draw, I know something's fishy.

I'll get to the bottom of this if it kills me.

Good Luck Silent! It's a huge thing, but I'm really impressed with how you are slowly but surely eliminating the items that are not using all the power.

cheers
Wendy

Pity I was not closer. I could stick an amp-meter inplace of each fuse and check the loads per cct.

Check that your hot water is running on the night switch instead of the day switch.

Quote:

---

Pity I was not closer

---

Best time of the year for a south coast holiday :wink:

Thanks Wendy. It's actually an interesting process (despite the dollars!!) and I'm learning a fair bit about our electricity usage, which can only be a good thing.

Bob, I've got an amount on the meter for off peak (the new meters give you a separate reading for each tariff) which looks about right for the hot water service, so I think it's ok. But I'm going to get the sparky around next week to check a few things, and that will be the first thing I ask him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentC

Best time of the year for a south coast holiday :wink:

---

What. You offering accomodation for a weekend ?????
Family of four plus a dog.

Sorry Silent... asked a question and went away.... I've been busy. :-

Someone else seemed to address the Halogen issue, so thats 'done'.

I share your frustration... normal usage and large spike = something wrong.
I do think you have a problem somewhere, and its only through the process of elimination that you'll find it, even with the in-line meter.

I'd isolate the main meter first.... pull your fuses and see if the meter ticks over after 1.5 hours. If not.... its 'something' in the system. Then isolate items and check... repeat cycle till you id the fault... as you seem to be doing. Have fun with the tedious job! :rolleyes: A slow job, but quicker than waiting for the meter to be stocked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidG

What. You offering accomodation for a weekend ?????
Family of four plus a dog.

---

I've got a shed :)

Interesting observation over night. I switched off everything except the waterbed and the alarm clock. All appliances off at the wall, even the cordless phone and the wall oven. The dishwasher was still running, so I left it on. I isolated the shed, which also provides power to the septic system. I left the water pumps powered up, but no-one is using them overnight. I'm pretty sure they draw no current when not running because the pressure switches are mechanical.

The meter has a night rate that appears to start at 9pm and ends at 7am. Last night it registered 4 units, 2 of which were before I switched everything off at 11:00. The previous night it metered 11 units!

Tonight I'll isolate the shed again but leave everything on in the house. Then I'll have a baseline for the house. Unfortunately, I think this rules out a problem with the meter.

In case anyone is after one of those power meters, the Jaycar one is about $40 retail but now not due until August. The only other thing I can find that does the same job is the Power-Mate (Aussie invention, was featured on The New Inventors) and it retails for over $300!!

Might have to bite the bullet and buy one because I'm not getting any closer to finding out where all this power is going to.

I'm sure you can buy the same item overseas and get it sent to you. Have you tried Amazon?

There seem to be similar units available in the UK, I suppose one of them would be OK. I'd need to use a couple of plug adaptors with it.

Pull one fuse at a time until you find the loaded line.
Work along that line until you find the load.
Much cheaper than spending $300.

Pull the shed first. (Main suspect)
What is in the shed or off the shed line.

Just guesses as I have not seen your site.

Is it an old shed full of junk ???? Hidden load behind other stuff
Anything to do with chickens. ??? Incubators. Chick heaters.
Growing stuff ??? Hydroponics (Heaters lights.)


Septic pump. Motor framing (Leaking windings to earth).

Dave..

For energy metering toys available in Australia...

http://www.altronics.com.au/index.as...=item&id=K4600 for $160 plus postage and you have to assemble it!!

Or there is the Australian made Power Mate meter from the Alternative Technology Association http://shops.bizarsoftware.com.au/AT...y93/product238 for around $280. These are also available for hire from http://www.environmentshop.com.au/index.asp for $35 a week

And this one from the Rainbow Power Company http://www.rpc.com.au/catalog/energy...gesbt2jv7v69m2 for $264

A cheap clamp meter from E-Bay will cost about $30 - $40.
Measure the current flow in each item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidG

A cheap clamp meter from E-Bay will cost about $30 - $40.
Measure the current flow in each item.

---

that isn't as easy as it sounds. if he clamped it around a normal lead any current shown would actually be leakage current as it will measure the active which will be offset by the neutral, with the difference being only earth.

i've read the odd post, and only replied to correct the above, but i'd be looking around the pumps, aircon and any heaters... i'd suspect that the pumps are a higher wattage then you thought, a heater is accidently on and blowing hot air into the middle of nowhere, or you used the aircon in summer more than you realised.

i think i saw that you've only been in the house a short while? could the previous tenant/owner have used a tonne of power for their gear or is it a new home?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatirwinfella

that isn't as easy as it sounds. if he clamped it around a normal lead any current shown would actually be leakage current as it will measure the active which will be offset by the neutral, with the difference being only earth.

---

Duh! You have to read the active.
If you have a Clamp meter you make an extension "lead" out (300mm) of three wire so you can access each.

With an ammeter I cut the active and feed it through the meter.

Either way I find the current flow and determine what the actual load is.

Not recomended for people who do not know what they are doing as it can bite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barry_White

Hi Darren

I've given up trying to find out how the electric supply company is ripping me off.

Our quarterly bill is/was around $300.00

---

Bazza,
Any chance it may be that bloody big light in your projector:) :) :) , how often do you have that running each day???

Also on that note, I look forward to building one of those in the next year or so when the funds allow, Im very impressed.

Cheers
Steve

Daz... you need solar powered hydro, that will cut your bill significantly. And lucky you dont play electric drums eh:wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ausyuppy

Bazza,
Any chance it may be that bloody big light in your projector:) :) :) , how often do you have that running each day???

Also on that note, I look forward to building one of those in the next year or so when the funds allow, Im very impressed.

Cheers
Steve

---

Steve

That big light is only the equivelent of 4 x 100 watt light globes and the biggest problem is that I don't watch it that much.

I spend too much time on the forum so end up watching TV on a small 10" screen along side the computer.

But it is fantastic for watching the cricket, foorball and DVD's. It is really larger than life watching it on an 2400 x 1400 screen in a 6.5m x 4.5m room.

You could always become a darksider.
Candles instead of that lecktricity stuff
Salt yer vittles instead of a frig
Pit toilets stead of a treatment system
handtools in the shed

How are we going unplugging various things.
Any answers yet??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidG

How are we going unplugging various things.
Any answers yet??

---

He's unplugged his computer and is unable to answer.:doh:

Mick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidG

Duh! You have to read the active.
If you have a Clamp meter you make an extension "lead" out (300mm) of three wire so you can access each.

With an ammeter I cut the active and feed it through the meter.

Either way I find the current flow and determine what the actual load is.

Not recomended for people who do not know what they are doing as it can bite.

---

yes, well you didn't actually say this in your post did you?

"cut the active" umm.. bad choice of words, especially if some DIY dunce was to read it.

clipsal have adaptors for clamp on ammeters that are made from double adaptor bodies. you plug them in the back and you can read the load through loops coming out the side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thatirwinfella

yes, well you didn't actually say this in your post did you?

---

The discussion at that point was about equipment and costs, not the use there of.

Quote:

---

"cut the active" umm.. bad choice of words, especially if some DIY dunce was to read it.

---

How else do you connect an ammeter? (Not clamp on)
See foot note.

Quote:

---

clipsal have adaptors for clamp on ammeters that are made from double adaptor bodies. you plug them in the back and you can read the load through loops coming out the side.

---

Not as cheap as a plug and socket.

Not recomended for people who do not know what they are doing as it can bite.
:)( :zap::stretcher: :angel:

Just caught this thread Silent. All sounds like an interesting exercise, sorry I didn't come down this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidG

Pull one fuse at a time until you find the loaded line.
Work along that line until you find the load.

---

I think David is on the right track. Find the loaded fuse, then narrow it down unit by unit that comes off that fuse.

Good luck with it all.

Hey Neil, no worries, we'll catch you next time. Wasn't the best summer this year anyway, water was cold.

I've got the sparky coming around for an unrelated issue (I think - hot water has packed it in), so I'm going to pick his brains and get him to check a few things while he's here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentC

Hey Neil, no worries, we'll catch you next time. Wasn't the best summer this year anyway, water was cold.

I've got the sparky coming around for an unrelated issue (I think - hot water has packed it in), so I'm going to pick his brains and get him to check a few things while he's here.

---

You may have hit the nail on the head with this one i.e. heater packed it in, as, if the pressure / thermal valve is leaking (out of that drain thingy) then you are paying for the energy to heat that loss. This can be quite significant as the thermostat is constantly on to maintain the tank temperature.

Peter

Sorry to post one after the other but still thinking.

The other thing to keep in mind is with those mains pressure pump systems the motor start up current is around 6 to 8 times the run current and if it is constantly starting and stopping the power useage will be increased significantly.
Liken it to how the lights go dim when you start you circular saw and you'll get my drift.

Peter

The hot water is off peak, and our off peak usage is actually about half what it was before. It's only a new heater < 12 months old but the sparky is looking at it now.

We put the clamp meter on a few things. The average current draw for the house with everything switched on is about 2.4, which makes about 1/2 a kwh. We're going through twice that, according to the meter. I'll get him to put the clamp on the water pumps while he's here and I'll turn on a tap and see what it draws at start up and then while it's running.

http://www.altronics.com.au/index.as...=item&id=Q0960

Clamp meter attachment for a multimeter - $24

The Country Energy guy has dropped off a meter. It's one of the older mechanical ones with a bit of flex and a plug attached and a single power point. It's a bit hard to read because there's no way of resetting it and it's not possible to tell how far through a cycle it is because the counter is in kWh and the intermediate counter is graduated but has no numbers on it.

The idea is to leave it in place for 24 hours and check the reading before and after. It's a bit of a rough estimate because unless you stand and watch it, you don't know how long since it ticked over. It might read 145 but you don't know how far it is from ticking over to 146. It could take hours to move, depending on what it's connected to.

Anyway, since I got it, I've checked the two fridges and the freezer. Combined they use about 4.5kwh in 24 hours. That is within normal operating parameters for a fridge, ie. about 1.5kWh per day.

I've also had it on the water pumps since 6:00pm last night. I timed the rotor while the pump was running and it takes exactly 15 seconds to do one revolution. 187.5 revs = 1 kWh, so I worked out that it costs about 0.3 cents per minute to run. A 5 minute shower would use about 1/10th of a kWh and cost around 1.5 cents. There are 4 adults and 2 kids. The kids don't shower, they share a bath. So showering/bathing probably uses around half a kWh per day.

I've got some more calculations to do on the dishwasher (used daily) and the washing machine (used several times but usually on a single day), but I'll be surprised if in total we go through more than 1 to 2 kWh per day on electricity for the water pumps. The meter has already ticked over from when I hooked it up last night, but I doubt it has used anything like 1kWh over night and so I put that down to it being close to ticking over when I hooked it up. I estimated the beer fridge and freezer, which I metered last, would use about 3.5kWh but the meter only showed 3, so I'll assume that most of the kWh on the meter was actually used on them and not the pumps.

I'd need a clamp meter to check the startup current on the pumps because it's such a short burst and the meter I have wouldn't be able to show me anything meaningful. I'd like to buy one but funds are a bit low at the moment, so I might get the sparky to come around again. He's not charging me for his time, so I might as well make use of it.

Thanks for the link Clinton, a multimeter is something I'd like to get too. Multitude of uses around the house. I used to have one years ago but it got lost in a move.

Hang in there Silent. You've got me hooked. I can't add anything constructive, all my ideas have been forwarded, some of them several times. Just keep unpluggin' an' meterin'. :2tsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by outback

..... You've got me hooked....

---

When he finds the problem, you are going to have to buy the answer on eBay. :D

Have had the meter on a few things over the last week. So far I've accounted for about 18 out of 36 kWh per day. The septic system uses about 5 kWh per day, most of which is the aeration pump, which must run for 6 hours a day.

When I first put the metre on it, I calculated it was using about 700 watts per hour. We've got a spare in the shed and the label on the box says it's a 400 watt pump, so I suspected it might be faulty.

We contacted the manufacturer and they told us there's no way it should be using that much power and could we replace it and send it in for testing? We pulled the old one out and I decided to throw the new one in a 44 full of water and check it. It was pulling the same. I had a look on the specification plate and it says 3.9 amps. That's over 800 watts! So we rang the manufacturer again and the guy ended up admitting he wasn't really sure what it should be using, so he got onto the engineering department and came back with the answer that 800 watts is correct.

The 400 watts refers to the power output of the pump itself, not the electric motor that runs it. Wonder where the other 400 watts goes (isn't there something in the law of conservation of energy about that?). Maybe I am responsible for global warming...

So, no solution yet. Still a few things to meter but I can't see what's left adding up to another 18 kWh. In the meantime, we've contacted Country Energy about having the meters tested. But they never have any problems with the digital ones...

In the meantime I've been talking to my Uncle Charlie (he of the bushmill) and he has a bank of old GPO batteries and an inverter he's not using, so we might have a go at rigging up solar power for the septic system. He's got most of his stuff running off solar. The panels are hooked up to the grid when they're not recharging his batteries and he loves to watch his meter running backwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentC

The 400 watts refers to the power output of the pump itself, not the electric motor that runs it. Wonder where the other 400 watts goes (isn't there something in the law of conservation of energy about that?). Maybe I am responsible for global warming...

---

Freud said something about it I'm sure. :o

a 50% efficiency rating on the pump.... not a recommendation to purchase that brand!