Plumbing and Building Queries????? S.A.

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

You spend your life in the game and you pick up how to do just about anything just by watching the pros and asking a few questions. That plastic looks pretty simple but I've never seen it used. They ought to let unlicensed owner builders do their own plumbing with that stuff. I reckon it looks pretty fool proof if you read a manual.
:wink:
I hope the main is on my side of the street so I don't have to tunnel.
I've got a good half metre under the house so access isn't a problem for the water. I might just buy a new porta gas for soft soldering since the fittings are heaps cheaper. Can you put soft soldered joints in a wall?
:U

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Mate only the water/sewer/and gas authority can dig up roads and connect services in S.A. You should have connection points at the boundary to your property ( normally water meter, gas meter sewer Inspection point) if you dig into the road id say your in trouble.
Soft solder im assuming is welded copper joins, pretty sure thats all your allowed to put in walls unless its a part of a manufactured fitting. Check you local.
Make sure you comply with all back flow requirements.
In S.A. if your renevation is more than 50 square meters you have to install expensive water saving devices also so check your local rules.

Hi groggy

I was told the best way to get a tradie for a small job is -
Hop in the car drive to the nearest new estate with lots of building happening, park the car, hop out and go and ask if any one wants a cashie. Oh take 1/2 doz beers.

I bet you will find a 3rd of 4th year apprentice who will do it on the week end or after work.:2tsup:

Celeste

Hi all

A question for the master plumber - is it legal for me to disconnect all the tapes and sinks etc ready for the plumber to move and or reconnect the new gear?

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.

Celeste

no-one mentioned kemblas Kwik fittings yet

http://www.kembla.com.au/plum_kwikfit.html

easy peasy, fine for behind wall use, and re-useable, reconnectable - best find I ever made in a hardware store!

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Originally Posted by bricks

Mate only the water/sewer/and gas authority can dig up roads and connect services in S.A. You should have connection points at the boundary to your property ( normally water meter, gas meter sewer Inspection point) if you dig into the road id say your in trouble.

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I'm not talking about digging up the road. I'm talking about getting a dude in with a small hydraulic ram to tunnel under it.

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Guided boring was first introduced into the industry in 1991. Guided boring machines
or directional rod pushers were used mainly for under-road crossings for the
telecommunications, gas and water industry for conduit installation typically in the range of 20mm diameter to 150mm diameter
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:-nDgTbljfFIJ:euskills.netxtra.net/download.php%3Fid%3D86+hydraulic+ram+tunneling+under+a+road+for+gas+supply&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=au

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There was a guy doing that next door a while back, although I can't remember what was being installed. It took him half a day to get across the road.
I thought the plumber was supposed to do all the work apart from tapping the main and installing a cock?

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Originally Posted by bricks

Soft solder im assuming is welded copper joins, pretty sure thats all your allowed to put in walls unless its a part of a manufactured fitting. Check you local.

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I'm talking about the stuff that comes in big sticks that draws after heating the fitting with a porta gas. Those skinny sticks the plumbers use won't draw unless you put more heat in, i.e. oxy torch. I suppose I could hire one when I've got all the joints sorted out, but a new porta gas would probably cost the same.

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Originally Posted by bricks

Make sure you comply with all back flow requirements.

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Well I've installed a new charged gully out the back, that's 100mm below FFL, and there's an existing gully out the front that's a good 1.5 metres below FFL. Backflow won't be a problem.

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Originally Posted by bricks

In S.A. if your renevation is more than 50 square meters you have to install expensive water saving devices also so check your local rules.

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I don't really care, and no one else will. It was like that before I moved in. I just re-tiled the joint is all I did. Honest Injun guvna. :wink:

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Originally Posted by pharmaboy2

no-one mentioned kemblas Kwik fittings yet

http://www.kembla.com.au/plum_kwikfit.html

easy peasy, fine for behind wall use, and re-useable, reconnectable - best find I ever made in a hardware store!

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Wow, that looks pretty cool alright. I wonder how they work, and how you get them apart again. :?
Would sure make my job a lot easier so long as they don't cost the Earth.

This is what all plumbers dread, thats why they make it so you must have a licence to do the job.

With all these new easy push together fittings, life is so much easier for the DIYer.

Al :2tsup:

It may be easier but hell you don't get to play with the pretty flame.

I built a water feature last year with push on fittings - plastic pipes the bloody thing failed after 3 months and I had to demolish and rebuild the thing to replace one elbow. Actually It was only about 3 hrs work but that is three hours I could have spent praying at church or doing other things

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

Wow, that looks pretty cool alright. I wonder how they work, and how you get them apart again. :?
Would sure make my job a lot easier so long as they don't cost the Earth.

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they have a little clip that pushes in to create the seal which when removed (takes 2 seconds max) allows the fitting to be removed. I'm from Newcastle which has a reputation for high water pressure, and they have all worked a treat - seems to work by the more pressure there is, the tighter the seal gets - whats that joke about a penguin and blowing a seal? :D

They are between $5 and 10 each fitting. As Ozwinner notes, plumbers hate them - I asked a plumbing place about them, and the guy said no way was he displaying them, or promoting them, and Bunnings dont seem to deal with kembla at all (or Kembla pipe wont deal with Bunnings perhaps), so you are left with the home Hardware chain pretty much, who usually stock a fair bit of plumbing stuff.

Pawny in S.A. plumbers, builders, etc are only allowed to work up till the boundary of a property. Roads, footpaths, water mains, sewer mains are publicly owned infastructure, I dont think anyone will let you touch it, digging in roads requires proper certification, I dont have it. As far as i know only government water authority contractors are allowed to do it anywhere in this country.
The back flow i was talking about was in your water supply not sewer, you need to ensure nothing from your water supply can end up in the town water supply.

Celeste Theres nothing stopping you from turning off your water supply and going hulk hogan on you own stuff. But id tee it up with the plumber, ask him to come out first and show you anything he doesnt want you to touch, Get him to start on monday and spend your weekend ripping it out yourself tiles and all , youll save the two days labour for the plumber.

Id rather use Kinco's everywhere than one push fit fitting, they are absolute rubbish.!!!!

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Originally Posted by silentC

A 26 year old who knows it all! Who would have thought :rolleyes:

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Whereas, of course, a 41 year old REALLY knows it all, eh?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, when yer get to be 60........:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

Now, when yer get to be 60........:D :D :D

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You have forgotten it all.
Now what were we talking about?:roll:

Pipe down you young wipper snappers I'm trying to get my rest....

Hey did you like that pipe down .... get it.

I may be old but....I......what was i going to say?

[quote=bricks;459366] Roads, footpaths, water mains, sewer mains are publicly owned infastructure, I dont think anyone will let you touch it, digging in roads requires proper certification, I dont have it. As far as i know only government water authority contractors are allowed to do it anywhere in this country.
It is different in victoria.Anyone can dig up the footpath or road after obtaining a road opening permit.Most councils (but not all) require proof of public liability ,and possibly a traffic management plan as well before they will issue the permit.The tapping of water mains needs to be done by the authority, but stormwater tappings can be done by anyone.

Tools

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Originally Posted by celeste

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.

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You have to connect the drainage and bed the bath in first, then lay the brickwork around it. If it's framed up in timber then you can build the frame first (with the bath in place), and bed it in before you line the framework.

Tools youll notice i didnt include stormwater in the mix but,,, the storm water infastructure is still publicly owned. In S.A. you can do stormwater under a building liscence, permit, or owner builders can too (average joe's) but in S.A. if you have stormwater in the street you need to aplly to the relevant authority for a connection on your property same as 4 sewer/water and gas.

Just as an example, what if pawny tunnels under the road, ( is he still going to block the road off for OH&S), How does the relevant authority know pawny knows which pipe is storm water ( they not labeled), what happens when pawny hits power, telstra, foxtel, fibreoptic, sewer, fire ect. As a plumber i have done stormwater connections as part of major building works, the relevant authority always help out with this in terms of technical support and they always inspect it. Roads need to be tested to make sure of load ratings compaction etc.

Plus roads are a structural item, they need to be engineered and certified as both safe to protect the services within and adequate for the loads of cars, and at least a 12 ton firetruck.

Yes you may be able to do your own stormwater, Its not plumbing, but i have a very difficult time believing that any person at alll can connect to stormwater mains. the only thing in S.A. you can do is put your stormwater into the gutter and therefore go across footpaths to do it, that's it thats all i can do.
What happens if pawnys connection method means the connections in front of his are no longer working, the cost to investigate and fix would probably be more than pawny you and I could come up with between us.

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Originally Posted by bricks

What happens if pawnys connection method means the connections in front of his are no longer working, the cost to investigate and fix would probably be more than pawny you and I could come up with between us.

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A bit of duck tape will fix it.

Didn't you know? You can do just about anything with a roll of duck tape, a can of WD40 and some barbed wire. :wink:

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Originally Posted by celeste

Hi all

A question for the master plumber - is it legal for me to disconnect all the tapes and sinks etc ready for the plumber to move and or reconnect the new gear?

Can you also, tell me what order do you use when installing a bath with a brick hob.

Celeste

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Yeah, rip you stuff out it's not illegal, just make sure you tee it up with the plumber first so you dont wreck something. Good way to save money.

Pawnys method above is pretty good. If your using timber make the frame first, youll want about 40 mm minimum of mortar under your bath minimum, use a UFO connector/ bath adaptor. put some bubble wrap in the bath and do the hippy hippy shake for a minute or two this will settle the bath into the mixture nicely, I set the timber low enough that i get villa board and tile under the bath edge. it makes cutting tiles easier.

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

A bit of duck tape will fix it.

Didn't you know? You can do just about anything with a roll of duck tape, a can of WD40 and some barbed wire. :wink:

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Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

Tools that is why people arnt allowed to do it.

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Originally Posted by bricks

I set the timber low enough that i get villa board and tile under the bath edge. it makes cutting tiles easier.

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I set the villaboard under, but I try to get the tiles flush with the edge.

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Originally Posted by bricks

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

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I'm just trying to rev you up bricksie. If I put my mattock through a gas line then I'm not going to fix it with duck tape and barbed wire. I promise (fabric gaffa tape is stronger).

I know that pawny but Weve already established that your not an idiot, but that word was created because some people are.

And i just though of a better reason why you cant do anything in the road.
YOU DONT OWN IT!

sewer gas water stormwater connections are yours because you pay for them to be done the correct way ( they are there to be connected to...)

Digging in the road is like digging through your neibours loungroom, you cant do it, and you cant connect onto his sewer line either, that is why your house has a boundary.

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Originally Posted by bricks

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

Tools that is why people arnt allowed to do it.

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Maybe not in SA, but as I said, in Victoria you can.

An example of requirements for road openings:

http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/ro...ng_permit.html
http://www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/ro...ng_permit.html

Note page two where it says "A road opening permit is issued when a plumber,builder or someone from the public requires to cut open council assets such as footpath,road or nature strip.Common reasons for road opening permit are:
- water tappings
- stormwater connections
-water main construction
- sewer main construction"

Naturally there are fees and conditions and inspections required, but anyone can do it.


With water tappings, as I also said, the tapping must be done by the authority, but the preparation and excavation is done by others (including beyond the property boundary), be they the plumber,builder,owner,or whoever.

http://www.citywestwater.com.au/abou...l_tappings.pdf

Page two talks of the requirements for preparing for the authority.

http://www.citywestwater.com.au/abou...l_tappings.pdf

Stormwater tapping are similar.There are permits required, fees and inspections, but anyone can do it.

http://www.bayside.vic.gov.au/roads_storm_water.htmhttp://www.bayside.vic.gov.au/roads_storm_water.htm

New sewer connections are done by the authority or its contractors, who usually also do any excavations.

Tools

I think in NSW you can do it yourself if you have the right qualifications and get the right permits and inspections before backfill.
They certainly make you jump through the hoops to get all the paperwork. I spent 4hrs at a Sydney Water counter once in order to get a permit to drill a main in a footpath!

EDIT I think gas and telecomunications are the only exceptions, they want their own contractors to carry out the work.

Bleeding, I think a lot depends on the council.I got a permit a few weeks ago to run stromwater across a road to a pit,and all they wanted to see was what we wanted to do...no insurances,no traffic management plan.

Tools

Tools that goes up here too. Also the size of the job - you say you want to lower sewer manhole and they insist on doing it themselves but you can do a subdivision and place all the mains in and its not a problem.

Go figure?

Just though id re-inforce what i started this thread for.

People who want to know how to's or tips or what ever.

The legal aspect of this obviously seems to be at least different or in some areas non-existent depending on where you are in this grand country. From now on my response will be "if you cant work out the legal aspect of your job PAY someone who does"!

There has also been a lot of slinging about how tradies feel about home owners diying their projects.
I dont mind, if i did i certainly would'nt give you advice.

You know who i hate, people who carry out businesses without liscences or outside of their liscence, duping unaware people and leaving dogey jobs. Theese people should be strung up and shot...

I ve also noticed some people wish to pick apart my advice and seem for some reason to be hell bent on making me look like a halfwit.
My advise is good, my ideas will work,

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS THOUROGHLY INVESTIGATE ANY ADVICE ESPECIALLY ON AN OPEN FORUM LIKE THE INTERNET.

i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here, it stands to reason that posters of those ideas will think the same of my ideas. You dont have to listen, you dont have to take my advise,

Thats not directed at you TOOLS,

No problem.I didn't take it that way,just wanted to clarify the situation in victoria.

Tools

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Originally Posted by bricks

I ve also noticed some people wish to pick apart my advice and seem for some reason to be hell bent on making me look like a halfwit.

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Well you may be refering to me, so I'll just add that the only person that can make you look like a halfwit is yourself. I'd give people more credit than to take someone else's word for it. You're judged by what you say and I don't think you're a half wit.

It doesn't matter to me who makes a post. If I believe there's a better way, or if I believe that there's something wrong with the advice that they're giving then I'll say so.

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Originally Posted by bricks

i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here,

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Well you should just point it out wherever it is then. I'm sure it would be a benefit to the forums if there's dodgy advice there somewhere. I haven't trawled through your post history, but the only thing I can see you've criticized is my suggestion of using duct tape on a gas pipe. Of course that's dodgy and I wasn't really being serious, although it would stop a leak until the proper authorities could come to fix it.

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Originally Posted by bricks

......................i started this thread because i though that there was alot of bad info being displayed here...................

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Bricks,
don't know if you thought that my advice to use an "O" ring to seal a spout or what ever to a nipple was "bad info", but I'll happily defend it against all comers. I've seen it used by many plumbers, some of which I've worked with, on and off, for many years so I know their work and trust their judgement.

Edit: Bricks, I refer you to this thread:https://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=44220
where you say: "Do not use o-rings, washers, or anything else they may wreck your tapware." Please explain how using an "O" ring in the way I suggest will wreck your tap ware and/or any reasons you may have against my suggested use.
Mick

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Originally Posted by bricks

Some people genuinly think that way, and your trying to tell me that anyone can mess around with public infastructure.

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How do you convert that to personal criticism?
It's a fact pawny, some people will actually do things like duct tape and wire for a repair.

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

I'm just trying to rev you up bricksie. If I put my mattock through a gas line then I'm not going to fix it with duck tape and barbed wire. I promise (fabric gaffa tape is stronger).

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Is this your normal response when someone criticizes you? sounds like you know exactly how i meant it.

Ok everyone, time for a chill pill.

Al :2tsup:

C'mon this was destined to be a 10 pager from the first post!! :)

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Ok everyone, time for a chill pill.

Al :2tsup:

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Well I'm ready to kiss and make up.

How about you bricksie? :kissing:

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Originally Posted by OBBob

C'mon this was destined to be a 10 pager from the first post!! :)

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:roll: I know that. :roll:

Just dont get into a slanging match..

Al :)

Like i said pawny, your definately no an idiot,
Maybe someone could post a real question again and we might get back to what i intended.

No hard feelings pawny you just give me the %$#Ts and i think you know what pushes my buttons.

Kiss Kiss hug hug all that jazz.

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Originally Posted by bricks

...............Maybe someone could post a real question again and we might get back to what i intended..............

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Bricks,
I've posted a real enough question about "O" rings and your aversion to my use of them.

Mick

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

It doesn't matter to me who makes a post. If I believe there's a better way, or if I believe that there's something wrong with the advice that they're giving then I'll say so.
Well you should just point it out wherever it is then. I'm sure it would be a benefit to the forums if there's dodgy advice there somewhere. I haven't trawled through your post history, but the only thing I can see you've criticized is my suggestion of using duct tape on a gas pipe. Of course that's dodgy and I wasn't really being serious, although it would stop a leak until the proper authorities could come to fix it.

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This duct tape idea may not be as "far fetched" as you all would believe. I had a gas leak at my place recently, it was the pipe feeding into our property. I rang energex who came out and verified I had a serious problem. An hour later (seriously) out came an energex crew with a tip truck and an excavator, ready to dig up the front yard.

Luckily I knew where the pipe was from my previous experience in laying ag pipe, so we found it quickly. They cut through the gas pipe while it still had gas in the line and sealed it up with a rag and DUCT TAPE! :oo: - these guys were energex contractors:2tsup: :oo: .

The pressure of the gas blew the rag out of the end of the pipe twice, before they secured it in place with a trusty screwdriver taped into the pipe with the rag :no: :o (like a plug!).

I was watching this in amazement the whole time, but the best part was the guy who came back with their lunch and stood about 6-8 metres from the pipe with a lit ciggie!!!

So in my experience the duct tape works, because if it didn't I wouldn't have the house and the computer to post this story.!!:D :D :D