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Ah well. Sorry to get your hopes up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
You can also quite easily get a limited plumbers license to install water heaters too I believe. Plumbers can get a limited sparkies license to do the same. There's money in that and you can keep the plumbers honest with their charges. They're generally a lot dearer than sparkies and chippies since they've got to keep their yachts sailing. :wink:
Its a difficult situation, i still have some doubts about weather i will use the licence at any time and if its worthwhile. I know people say it increases job oppertunities etc, but sometimes im not sure if i even want to do airconditioning:?.. Im happy doing electrical and dont mind that kind of work. And at times i think i should do the course so i dont miss this opportunity. While at other times i feel like just enjoying life and being carefree.. has pawnhead said in earlier posts.
Well that's quite a confused post and it's hard to give advice beyond what's already been said by all. The course may not be any benefit to you at all, but it may be very useful. No one has a crystal ball and no one knows where you will be in seven years. It all depends on your conviction.Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
When you make a decision, as we are all forced to at various stages of our lives, the most important thing is to make it with conviction. You must be sure of yourself even if you’re not, if you know what I mean. If you can’t convince yourself that you’ve made the right decision then you’ll have much less chance of being successful in anything.
The next most important thing is, don’t look back in remorse. If you’ve convinced yourself that you’ve made the right decision, then that’s what it was and you should have no regrets. If you end up broke, and destitute in old age because you’ve partied all your life and tried to do whatever has made you happiest from moment to moment, then you should have no regrets. It’s better than being miserable in your work and piling up wads of dough. You don’t need much to be happy if you’ve got the right outlook.
As others have said, it may be most prudent to do the course then set up your own electrical/airconditioning company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.
It may be best to do overtime instead so you’ll be financially secure when you set up your own electrical contracting company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.
It may be best, after you’ve obtained your license, to do a Clerk of Works course, and obtain a full builders license, then set up your own building/electrical company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.
It may be best to spend your time doing whatever you enjoy most. That’s the best decision because pride and money have nothing to do with it. You’re doing what you want and you’d be the envy of a lot of people who are miserable in their lives. It doesn’t matter at all what anyone else thinks. The most important opinion of all, and the only one that really matters, is your own, and you have no regrets.
You may start the course, then change your mind. You may have an offer to set up a a partnership if you devote all of your time to it. If you decide to quit, then do it with conviction and have no regrets. At the time it was the best decision you could have made.
The worst decision that you may make in the future, is to choose to have regrets about your past. You must live with the consequences and life’s too short to waste wallowing in self pity.
If after pondering the options, you still aren’t convinced with yourself, then I’d suggest a backpack, and seek what you may be looking for. It could be as simple as surfing the net for possibilities, and alternatives.
Whatever you do, keep a smile on your dial. :)
Thanks alot for the post pawnhead, it gives me alot to think about.
Today i spoke with my boss and clearly outlined why i beleive it would be beneficial to the company for him to provide me with appropriate training if im required to do refrigeration and air conditioning work in addition to electrical. He hasnt given a definite answer yet, but it seems he is starting to see that providing me with the training may be a good idea for him.
Perhaps it's not the end of it just yet. This is the complete section from that pdf: -Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
And this is a definition of Trade Recognition that I've found: -Quote:
Full Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Licence
Licence can be obtained if you have any of the following:
Successful Completion of an Apprenticeship as a Refrigeration Mechanic e.g. Certificate of Completion, Proficiency Certificate, or a
Trade Recognition Certificate: Refrigeration Mechanic.
MEM30205 Certificate III in Engineering Mechanical Trade (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
MEM30298 Certificate III in Engineering (Mechanical - Refrigeration and Air Conditioning).
UTE30999 Certificate III in Electrotechnology Refrigeration and Air Conditioning.
Any Certificate having a trade outcome in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning e.g. Journeyman's Certificate, or Allied Trades
Certificate and detailed evidence of at least 4 years relevant industrial experience working as a Refrigeration Mechanic.
http://www.arctick.org/pdf/Licence%2...tions%20V1.pdf
Quote:
What is Trade Skills Recognition?
Many people with trade skills and experience do not have formal qualifications. There are opportunities for these people to have their skills assessed and formally recognised.
Trade recognition in NSW is conducted in accordance with Part 3 of the Apprenticeship and Traineeship Act 2001. Fees are established by regulation under this Act.
Who can apply?
If a person has experience working in a particular recognised trade but does not have formal qualifications in that trade, he/she can apply to have his/her trade skills assessed and formally recognised by the NSW Vocational Training Tribunal (VTT) and receive trade certification. They may do this if they:
• have worked in the particular trade for at least four years (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed an apprenticeship or other trade training (either in Australia or Overseas), or
• have completed a recognised industry assessment program or
• have acquired an appropriate qualification
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...radeskills.htm
Maybe, but perhaps not. Post the email that you sent to them and post the complete response if there's any more to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
Perhaps you just need a bit more conviction when you approach them. :wink: They may be reluctant to show you a shortcut because they want you to pay for their course. The person that responded to you may not be aware of it, or there could be other reasons.
I obtained a carpenter's license without any formal education at all. It was before I sat for my builder's course. Four years experience + references + sitting for an exam, are all that's required nowadays I believe. Why bother learning a whole lot of crap that you're never going to use, I thought, so I taught myself only what I needed to know (roofs, staircases, framing, etc).
The squeaky wheel gets the oil so I'd try to get to the bottom of this if I were you.
Thats the complete reply. I dont have a copy of what i sent, but it went something like:Quote:
Maybe, but perhaps not. Post the email that you sent to them and post the complete response if there's any more to it.
"i am currently doing the 3rd year of my electrical apprenticeship. The company i work for does electrical and aircon/refrigeration. What am i required to do to recieve a licence. Send a letter signed by my employer highlighting my experience in the trade? The 3 year tafe course?"
Ive been doing alot of thinking about my options.
Ive done calculations to see how much money i will be giving up if i do the tafe course. Works out to be around $10,000 pay lost over the 3 years, plus tafe fees, text books, travel expenses (most of which can be claimed on tax i beleive).
My boss is not willing to pay for the course, or the time i spend away from work (which is understandable, but still a little frustratng), and i will receive very little extra pay on the completion of the course.
I also have taken into consideration finding another employer and just doing electrical when i finish my electrical apprenticeship.
And finally, the things relating to variety of work vs. money. Doing the course would mean i am better qualified in a larger variety of work, but at the same time, i only need the qualification to do the extra work if i start my own business.
I have also considered the possibility of starting a business in the future and still am weighting up weather or not its a sensible option. Being that i give up holiday pay, super etc, but at the same time gain a few other things like flexible hours, ability to choose my work etc.
These are all the things im considering, and at this point im still undecided. :oo::?:oo:
But im not letting it stress me, just weighing up the options and ill see what happens.:)
It's interesting to see you do the research and work through your thinking. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you.
Good Luck!
Wendy
I don't think this is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
To work as a refrigeration mechanic you either need to be licensed or be an endentured apprentice under the direct supervision of a licensed refrigeration mechanic.
Cheers, Jack
Technically, i agree. But in my boss' mind.. it doesnt matter. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
Aah yes, but what about your next boss.:qQuote:
Originally Posted by cross
Another point to consider, licenses never becom easier to attain, generally they become harder and harder to attain. If you get the qualifications and license now it may save you a lot of grief and work further down the track.
Mick
How true, some years ago I could have just applied to get my domestic builders licence no questions asked, but I didnt bother.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman Mick
Al :(
Al,
I should have gotten mine a few years ago, would have been a fee and a bit of paper work but I had no interest in building houses anymore. The way licensing has gone in Qld now the carpenter's contractor license is very restrictive in what work you can perform for the public. So I'm probably going to have to pull my finger out and do a huge stack of paper work and pay a lot more money to get the same bit of paper (well it's a plastic card now)
Mick
Thanks to everyone for their advice.
Ive made my decision. Im not going to do the course. After alot more discussion with my boss he is no longer even willing to guarentee that he will provide me with the training for the refrigeration side of things. Leaving me with limited options.
I plan to finish my apprenticeship with him (1 year to go) and then seek another employer.
Thanks again.
Cross,
something else to consider:
It's much easier to study when you're young, your brain has a greater capacity to learn the younger you are (bad timing as you've got less motivation, generally:rolleyes: ).
The course will only cost you more, should you consider doing it later on.
The license will only ever be harder to get.
Job security; in this day and age job security is almost non existant.
If you want to work on wages for the rest of your life, that's fine, but you'll be more employable with dual qualifications.
Dual qualifications will mean more jobs are open to you.
If you want to work for yourself then there are more options open to you and a larger client base.
Perhaps your boss withdrew his offer to fund the course because you don't seem committed. Decide, really decide what you're going to do and then do it. If it means doing the course then tell him and you may be pleasantly suprised. If you decide not to do the course, fine, just be very sure that whatever you decide you won't look back and say: "if only......"
Mick
Cross,
what happened to the post you put up saying you were still in two minds? Get your act together!:~
Mick
Thanks for the replies Mick.
I dont think my lack of "commitment" is the problem with my boss. My seemingly constant change of mind about what im doing has only been in my mind and on this forum. I have only discussed with my boss that i wanted to do the course. It is his inability to give me a clear answer that causes me to keep changing my mind. In all fairness he is dealing with some personal problems at the moment so i dont blame him for not being able to give me an answer and put my question at the top of his list of priorities.
I have until the start of next year to make my choice. I still am not really convinced either way. If i find that my boss is willing to provide me with the training then i would commit 100% to doing the course.
I will continue to stay open to all the options and see what happens at the end of the year.
Cross,
$10K over 3 years = less than $65 per week.
Now I know that on apprentice wages that's a bit, but it's not impossible. If you wait a few years until you've got a wife and kids it will cost more and it will be much harder to find the time.
Ask yourself:
If I do the course instead of work, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of party, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of travel, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course now, will I regret it down the line?
Mick
The problem is. No matter how much i want to do the course, unless my boss actually wants to spend the time training me and give me the time off to do it, then i dont have the option.Quote:
If I do the course instead of work, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of party, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course instead of travel, will I regret it down the line?
If I do the course now, will I regret it down the line?
Well have you looked into the links I provided? Have you rung anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by cross
I followed the links and came up with this: -
And from the pdf: -Quote:
UTE30999 Certificate III in Electrotechnology (Refrigeration and Air Conditioning)
Applicants for trade recognition should provide evidence to demonstrate at least 4 years practical experience in the following trade competencies.
In addition to any other evidence supporting an application for trade recognition, applicants are encouraged to use this checklist as a self assessment competency guide and lodge it with the application.
For further information and a guide to assist applicants for Trade Recognition in this trade, click here (PDF 80KB).
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...s/UTE30999.htm
And the MEM18.86A is a very short course: -Quote:
If you are seeking trade recognition as a Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Mechanic
you must provide evidence that you have successfully complete a recognised course,
module or unit of competency on the safe handling of refrigerants in Australia.
That means that you must have completed either of the following (or equivalent):
Recognised Training Course: CFC/HCFC Accreditation course required for
State/Territory CFC/HCFC User Authorisation, prior to 1st July 2005
National module: NR03 Refrigerants
Unit of Competence: MEM18.86A Test, Evacuate and Charge Refrigerants.
Unit of Competence: UEENEE008A Recover, Pressure and Leak Test, Evacuate
and Charge Refrigeration Systems
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...9_appinfo3.pdf
I'd certainly be ringing around to find out what this Trade Recognition Certificate is all about if I were you.Quote:
Course Name: Split Air-Conditioning Systems
Fees: $650 (GST Exempt) (No concession)
Times and Dates:
Length: Feb 1 - Feb 3, Thu - Sat 8am - 4pm, 3 x 7hrs
http://www.shortcourses.vic.gov.au/s...619&prv_id=170
There's a document here that I haven't looked at. : -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...kills_0905.pdf
Another one here: -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au...99_sept_05.pdf
And in this document: -
http://apprenticeship.det.nsw.edu.au/html/tradelist.htm
Refrigeration/Air Conditioning (Mechanic) is listed as a trade that can be certified by a Trade Recognition Certificate.
I might be getting your hopes up, but it doesn't sound like you've done any real inquiries into taking a short cut to your license.
You've got to have a license to be a painter, but very few of them have done the four year course at Tech. I couldn't think of a bigger waste of time than spending four years learning how to push a roller and slop a bit of paint on a wall. with four years training you ought to be able to re-pant the Sistine Chapel (no offense to any painters out there.:wink:)
If you don't ask, then you'll never find out. Don't listen to Arktic. They just want your money. Ring TAFE. You never know. You may just have to pass that test they're talking about in that link I provided, and get your boss to sign off that you've been installing air cons for the last four years?
I have spoken with another tradesman who is in a similar position with me and found out about a short course that allows you to gain the restricted licence for split system install and decommisioning up to 18kw.
The reason he is doing this course is because the company he works for doesnt do a large enough variety of work to warrant or allow him to do the full refrigeration course. Having looked back over my recorded work experience i also notice that the majority of work i have done has been split system installs. I am enquiring to see weather or not the restricted licence allows you to work unsupervised, or if you still need the additional licence from the department of fair trading if you plan to do installs without the coverage of a fully licenced installer.
I think doing this course may be an acceptable compromise, being that i most likely wont recieve the full range or quality of training to undertake the full refrigeration course.
Am still finding out futher information regarding the course and what is included under the licence.
Have found out futher info regarding the course and licences etc.
To work on airconditioning and refrigeration unsupervised in nsw you require a licence from actick and a licence from the department of fair trading. Having only the restricted licence from actick doesnt make you eligible to obtain a licence from fair trading, so the restricted course wont be much use.
It may be best, after you’ve obtained your license, to do a Clerk of Works course, and obtain a full builders license, then set up your own building/electrical company. That’s the best decision and you should be proud of yourself and attack your seven year plan with zeal.
Hi pawnhead,
Just a quick question, would you happen to know what the equivalent in QLD would be for the "Clerk of Works" course.
Little background about me........have been off the tools for quite sometime and now back working fulltime on the tools as a Sparky on the Gold Coast, I am in the process of starting my "Electrical Contractors Course" via correspondance to enable me to eventually work for myself. Now I am a little older (34) and have a few more dollars in the bank, I will be trying to get involved with small property development (walkups/townhouses etc). Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
Chris,
I believe the Clerk of works course/position has disappeared in Qld. Up until recently to get a builders license you needed to be a carpenter or bricklayer and do the appropriate course. Now it doesn't matter if you have any trade qualifications or not, you need to do the appropriate course and work for a builder for two years in`a supervisory position. Alternatively if you have worked two years or more as a supervisor you can get Recognition of Prior Learning (which will cost about as much as doing the course:rolleyes: ). Tafe and HIA run courses, probably others as well.
Mick
Chris,
check out the QBSA website for requirements, from my reading you need to do 2 years supervisory work if you're a carpenter or brick/block layer or 4 years for any one else. Go here and see if you can make any sense of it.
Mick