Attitudes to the road toll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doug3030

I really would like it to be effective but in reality I doubt it will make a shred of difference. Texans are still drink driving at an average cost of $25000 per offence.

---

Maybe, but having an interlock device is much more restrictive than a fine. Firstly the device must be fitted to your car prior to going to Vic Roads to gain a new licence (as the old is cancelled) and then regularly blowing into the device before it can start and then at regular intervals to keep the motor going.

Monthly reports are to be sent to Vic Roads verifying that you have not attempted to drive whilst having alcohol in your system and complying with the conditions imposed on your new licence.

It's a very restrictive way of driving, much worse then paying fines. We will know soon of the effect as the new legislation was passed by parliament this month and the bill received royal assent only last week. If not the government will get even tougher as they are determined to reduce the road deaths.

Peter.

Adr 18-03

Quote:

---

5.3. The speed indicated shall not be less than the true speed of the vehicle. At the testspeeds specified in paragraph 5.2.5. Above, there shall be the following relationshipbetween the speed displayed (v1 ) and the true speed (v2).0 ≤ (v1 - v2) ≤ 0.1 v2 + 4 km/h

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Maybe, but having an interlock device is much more restrictive than a fine. Firstly the device must be fitted to your car prior to going to Vic Roads to gain a new licence (as the old is cancelled) and then regularly blowing into the device before it can start and then at regular intervals to keep the motor going.

Monthly reports are to be sent to Vic Roads verifying that you have not attempted to drive whilst having alcohol in your system and complying with the conditions imposed on your new licence.

It's a very restrictive way of driving, much worse then paying fines. We will know soon of the effect as the new legislation was passed by parliament this month and the bill received royal assent only last week. If not the government will get even tougher as they are determined to reduce the road deaths.

Peter.

---

This only works if the offender applies for a new license. I have a daughter that works in the courts system and many people come back 6 months after the license cancellation to apply for a new license having never had an interlock fitted. These are expensive to have fitted and most offenders from the lower socioeconomic areas don’t have the funds to fit and maintain the devices so continue to drive with no license.

WRT spedo's, surely the diameter of your tyres changes the speed quite a bit?

e.g. My car comes standard with 60 series tyres, but I always fit 40's. (They sure a harder ride!)... the diameter change on an 18" rim would be substantial.

Additionally, if you have your speedo calibrated for new tyres, as they wear you'll be reading quite a bit faster. If a tyre can wear 5 or 6mm before being changed....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jimfish

This only works if the offender applies for a new license. I have a daughter that works in the courts system and many people come back 6 months after the license cancellation to apply for a new license having never had an interlock fitted. These are expensive to have fitted and most offenders from the lower socioeconomic areas don’t have the funds to fit and maintain the devices so continue to drive with no license.

---

As with all things, punishments are disproportionately punitive to the poor.

Finland has an interesting approach: A sliding scale proportional to income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

WRT spedo's, surely the diameter of your tyres changes the speed quite a bit?

e.g. My car comes standard with 60 series tyres, but I always fit 40's. (They sure a harder ride!)... the diameter change on an 18" rim would be substantial.

Additionally, if you have your speedo calibrated for new tyres, as they wear you'll be reading quite a bit faster. If a tyre can wear 5 or 6mm before being changed....

---

Generally you'd change the rims and tyres together to keep the overall size within a few % of OEM. If you're only changing tyres there would be a significant change. On a 245/40R17, 6mm of wear changes the circumference by about 2%, which should still be well within tolerance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

As with all things, punishments are disproportionately punitive to the poor.

Finland has an interesting approach: A sliding scale proportional to income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

---

Boo hoo, someone offends enough times to warrant an interlock being fitted to their car gets no sympathy from me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Additionally, if you have your speedo calibrated for new tyres, as they wear you'll be reading quite a bit faster. If a tyre can wear 5 or 6mm before being changed....

---

Supposing your tyres when brand new have a diameter of 700mm (mine are 2 weeks old and approximately that) then the circumference of the tyre is 2,199mm. If that wears down 6 mm then the diameter becomes 688mm because it wears 6mm on both ends of the tape when you measure the diameter, giving a circumference of 2,161mm. 2161/2199 * 100 = 98% so the speedo reading changes by 2% over the life of the tyre in that example.

Now for a smaller car with say 500mm new tyre diameter then the new circumference is 1570mm and the worn circumference is 1533 or a 3% change in the speedo reading for a given speed over the life of the tyre. Tyres bigger than 700mm will obviously have a change of less than 2%.

Different profiles of tyres which can be fitted to a vehicle would potentially have a far bigger impact on the speedo reading than whether the tyre is new or worn.

What I like about the speedo on the GPS is that it doesn't care what the tyres look like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

WRT spedo's, surely the diameter of your tyres changes the speed quite a bit?

e.g. My car comes standard with 60 series tyres, but I always fit 40's. (They sure a harder ride!)... the diameter change on an 18" rim would be substantial.

---

I think you might find that this is not a legal modification. AFAIR, if the tire/rim combination fitted is not listed on the tire pressure plate, the vehicle can be defected (declared unroadworthy) on the spot.

It would pay to check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

As with all things, punishments are disproportionately punitive to the poor.

Finland has an interesting approach: A sliding scale proportional to income: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ticket/387484/

---

Well in that case, when the speed camera fine turns up in the post, I can always tell them that my useless dole bludging son-in-law was driving my car at the time. He has next to no income so the fine would be minimal. I could slip him a couple of hundred to take the rap and still be heaps in front.

Cheeers

Doug

Seems like Texas must be a place to use alternative transport other than driving yourself ,something we are considering ( driving) across some of the Southern States soon.
Always concerns me of the traffic coming towards me with folk still cannot get it out of their heads that mobile use, or inattention not only compromises their safety but also other folk trying to get somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Seems like Texas must be a place to use alternative transport other than driving yourself ,something we are considering ( driving) across some of the Southern States soon.
Always concerns me of the traffic coming towards me with folk still cannot get it out of their heads that mobile use, or inattention not only compromises their safety but also other folk trying to get somewhere.

---

You must drive to survive here, i.e. think like a motorcyclist, always be on the lookout, never assume that the other drivers can see you, never assume that others will behave in a logical, reasonable or rational way and stay as far away as possible from other road users.

Another big issue locally is road debris. There's an extremely large informal handyman workforce here due to lax employment laws and consequent minimal job security that has given rise to an army of individual fixer-upper types that load all manner of kit onto any and every available type of four wheeled motorized vehicle, often with no load restraints. Thus there is a huge amount of stuff dropped on the roads. I've seen and sometimes had to swerve to avoid everything from ladders to mattresses. Particularly dangerous are the ladders, I've seen at least several hundred on the highways in my years here. There've been some notable incidents where occupants of vehicles have been killed or seriously injured by construction related road debris but drunks are still the most serious hazard. If at all possible I try to get off of the road by 9 in the evening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rob streeper

You must drive to survive here, i.e. think like a motorcyclist, always be on the lookout, never assume that the other drivers can see you, never assume that others will behave in a logical, reasonable or rational way and stay as far away as possible from other road users.

---

So a lot easier than surviving on the roads in Melbourne then.

I agree the above would not only give the police more respect I challenge any driver to get out and about and not have incidences talk about road rage.

I think I'm going to be hated by many Australians after what I have to say, but what the hell, I can only say it as I've experienced it.

I've been here for 20 years, coming from Europe, and sorry to say a lot of the driving thinking / mentality here is very disappointing.

Way way too many people following blindly instead of THINKING for themselves. And they follow stupid and/or dangerous driving habits without THINKING why they are doing so. Take turning right at a roundabout for instance. In my 20 years I have not noticed anyone indicating correctly to turn right at a roundabout. They do things the lazy way of just leaving their right indicator on for the duration of the turn. This means other drivers waiting to come onto the roundabout think the car is still turning right so they wait, only to find the car turns off at that exit. Where is the changing of the indicator to the left one to tell other drivers they are exiting the roundabout. I've just done my truck test and we are still being taught to correctly indicate at roundabout, yet why does hardly anyone do it.
Now here's where the thinking bit comes in !! Nearly all drivers must have been the victim of this laziness/stupidity, and you would think it would remind them that they themselves should indicate correctly at a roundabout when turning right. Unfortunately that's not what I've observed and it seems the blind follow the blind and keep on doing this dumb act. Now are they dumb or do they simply not care, and just can't be arsed ???

Like I say, many people might hate me after this but I'm only telling what I've seen continuously for 20 years.

Merging !! Holy crap this one gets me and is a clear embarrassing example of how many drivers do not THINK. Once again we are taught how to merge correctly, yet once many people have their license they do not think and they just blindly follow what many dumb drivers do. In their infinite wisdom they somehow think merging at 80 ks into traffic doing 90-100 is the way to do it (cough, gag). They just keep at that dumb speed and don't do any pre-emptive driving to get themselves in a position where there's a gap in the traffic. They don't look over their shoulder but just look in their wing mirror instead. I've talked to many drivers who are under the mistaken impression that the drivers on the freeway are supposed to give way. I've had a few drivers honking at me because I refused to give way (i.e. I'm on the freeway) when I've had over 100m ahead and behind of me, yet the stupid merging driver has it in his limited grey matter that he must do nothing except drive at his fixed set pace in the merging lane, staying right at my side, and the freeway traffic will just get out of the road. Once again where do the huge quantity of drivers that do this get it from. They were not taught this so obviously it's another case of the blind following the blind without THINKING why. Every time I go onto a merging ramp, my first thing is to get up to the same speed as the freeway traffic, then find an open spot to merge into, and position myself to get into it. Problem is most time I can't get above 80 Ks because the driver(s) in front of me have accelerated to 80 then just stay at that speed. It's infuriating when other dumb arses won't allow you to drive safely and correctly.
Notice something else with merging that happens regular as clockwork. The merging cars become a "connected" road train, making zipping onto the freeway traffic very chaotic. I do the opposite and deliberately leave a gap in front of me when I'm in the merging lane. This allows me to accelerate forward or drop back to move into a gap. Of course what happens when you leave a gap like this in front of you ??? You get tailgated because the dumb sod behind you only knows about driving up the of the vehicle in front and if you aren't doing that then you are just holding up traffic. They obviously can't work it out that although you have a gap in front of you, you're actually doing the same speed as the vehicle in front of you.

Look at overtaking. Where I come from, when overtaking, the driver generally pulls out a good distance behind then after overtaking, pulls back in a good distance ahead. The culture here seems to be to stupidly and needlessly drive up close to the vehicle you're overtaking, pull out and overtake, then pull back in way to close. Where did this come from, was it taught, or is it just another case of people not thinking, and blindly following stupid and dangerous driving "techniques". It even happens on empty freeways (a trip to Canberra we did). Several times my wife got worked up when yet another overtaking driver approaching from kms behind us has to come right up our backside before pulling out to overtake.

Tailgaiting - this one has to be the holy grail here. You are not allowed to slow down before a turn. You are not allowed to keep to the speed limit, especially when overtaking and a pratt behind you wants you to go an extra 10 ks or so faster, etc, etc. Tailgating seems to be like a national sport here, and is indicative of the aggressive, confrontational mentality of way to many people here.

Cutting off - another very common dangerous driving act, and one that's cause me to slam the anchors on many times.

Lane hogging on freeways - wow, back home drivers would go nuts at this, it is just completely unacceptable there. Here, I regularly come across drivers sitting in the overtaking lanes and they won't budge. I've came behind them and flashed my lights and even honked my horn because I'm stuck and can't overtake anywhere. Still, they just sit there blocking the lane, it's just pure arrogance.

Lane changing - the infamous move THEN indicate, or at best put the indicator on at the same time as they commence the move to pull in front of you (dangerously close of course, as usual) and cut you off. To add insult to injury you often only see a flash or two of the indicator. Yet another case of the blind following the blind, and doing the same stupid dangerous acts. They obviously don't realise that if they were captured on a cam, their indicating means nothing because it's something like 4 seconds or 4 indicator flashed must have occurred before the vehicle move occurs. The driving rules also state that the indicator must remain on until the move has completed.

Chaotic lack of driving structure - the amount of times I've seen close calls because of the free-for-all lane changing on freeways. You've got a car in the middle lane then the 2 other cars overtake on either side and both of them try to pull over to the middle lane at the same time. Absolutely no structure of stay in the left most lane unless overtaking, and get back in the left most lane immediately after overtaking. And everyone must have seen the general hoon like driving in peak hour, where they act like they're on a race track and are darting through narrow gaps from lane to lane.

Friday after work fever in peak hour - obviously some alcohol and parties to rush home for and kill someone on the way there.

Pushing in to get one single car space further. We all know how many greedy drivers there are, pushing in where 2 lanes merge, and taking advantage of the ruling that if my vehicle is ahead of your vehicle, you must let me in. Of course they raced up and the merging lanes have almost became one, and you had to slam your anchors on to "let" him in. While on that matter, in conversation I've also noticed many drivers think they have right of way when their vehicle is in front of the other, even when the merging lanes are separated by broken lines.

Crook like government that does stuff-all about the real issues that have been happening forever, but will fine for going a tad over the speed limit. Put this and everything else together and you have a great recipe.

Another thing I've noticed is how many Australians love to blame the Asians for the wreckless driving here. My personal observations are the aggressiveness comes from whites of ALL ages. I know because I make it a point to always observe the driver. But perhaps all those whites are immigrants too, as I had one Australian said to me. I will admit that I've noticed a few Asians drive as though they are not aware there are any other drivers on the road, and they'll do something quite dangerous and infuriating, and seem shocked when the victim driver gets angry with them. But they aren't aggressive and confrontational like too many of the whites.

I think we have anger issues here too. I recently came across a thread talking about "angry aggressive Australians". It created a lot of posts and the thing I noticed is how a lot of the respondents were blaming the government for them getting angry. It's almost as though they were justifying their behaviour towards others. That's really going to solve a lot of problems.

Until the large quantity of drivers who drive as mentioned above, start to care, and THINK and change their attitude, I believe we'll continue to have too many accidents. The other problem is way too many people don't seem to notice what I've talked about, and therefore don't perceive it as an issue. Is it because they are born into this chaos and thus don't realise how bad it is. Coming from a country where I consider the driving vastly better and more organised, I see all the above like I see and feel a brick hitting me in the face.

I think we need to admit we have a cultural problem here. Not even being aware of the real problems, not caring, not thinking, following dangerous driving practises blindly, anger, aggression, blaming immigrants. Our government don't care and only want to rip us off so the only solution is we all need to care and voice out about this in general conversation, putting political correctness aside.

Let the attacks begin. Now waiting for typical reply of, "F-off back to your own country", etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

a lot of the driving thinking / mentality here is very disappointing.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

I've came behind them and flashed my lights and even honked my horn because I'm stuck and can't overtake anywhere. Still, they just sit there blocking the lane, it's just pure arrogance.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

I think we have anger issues here too. I recently came across a thread talking about "angry aggressive Australians".

---

[/QUOTE]

enough said.

Wow Beefy, if you think Australians are aggressive you never want to drive in Texas as you'd likely blow a couple of o-rings.

Most of the above post (beefy) should be termed "common sense", but unfortunately that phrase became an oxymoron a few years ago, and has fallen into disuse.

Look, since many drivers here can't even KEEP LEFT on the freeway, there's no chance of changing some of the more ridiculous habits (merging, roundabouts, tailgating, etc.). Presumably they are either (a) too stupid to understand simple instructions posted on huge signposts, or (b) so ignorant that they think the rules only apply to other people, and not to themselves. These people are indeed "special", just not in a good way.....:rolleyes:

I'll add another one which is prevalent in our area; people turning right off a main road onto a side road, who just stop in the middle of their lane until a gap appears in oncoming traffic. This causes traffic to bank up behind them, whereas if they had positioned their car as far to the right of their lane as possible, other traffic would have been able to continue past them on the left. In our area we have the additional problem that drivers won't attempt to drive through a gap unless it is at least twice the width of their own car.... :D

Oh, I nearly forgot about "duelling trucks" on the freeway, i.e. one truck travelling at 110.01 km/h trying to pass another truck doing 110.00 km/h. This can completely block a 2 lane freeway for many, many kilometers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

Look at overtaking. Where I come from, when overtaking, the driver generally pulls out a good distance behind then after overtaking, pulls back in a good distance ahead. The culture here seems to be to stupidly and needlessly drive up close to the vehicle you're overtaking, pull out and overtake, then pull back in way to close. Where did this come from, was it taught, or is it just another case of people not thinking, and blindly following stupid and dangerous driving "techniques".

---

Ever see those signs on the highways that say "Keep Left Unless Overtaking"? That's why they don't pull out until the last minute and then cut in a couple of metres in front of you. Its the only law or sign that they obey to the letter and it was not meant to be read that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

Chaotic lack of driving structure - the amount of times I've seen close calls because of the free-for-all lane changing on freeways. You've got a car in the middle lane then the 2 other cars overtake on either side and both of them try to pull over to the middle lane at the same time. Absolutely no structure of stay in the left most lane unless overtaking and get back in the left most lane immediately after overtaking. And everyone must have seen the general hoon like driving in peak hour, where they act like they're on a race track and are darting through narrow gaps from lane to lane.

---

So - which way do you want it?

Beefy, I agree with most of what you said.

CHeers

Doug

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

---

You should have been there 25 years ago - Its a pleasure driving in Canberra now. I much prefer it to Melbourne.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.

---

I don't think that's possible. All gaskets were blown a long time ago LOL.

You know what, it's very interesting about Sydney vs Melbourne as far as aggressiveness goes. My first few years were in Sydney and I never noticed the level of aggressiveness there that I did when I came to Melbourne. While in Sydney I knew a guy from Melbourne and he called Melbourne the land of the fast drivers. I never knew what he meant until I arrived here. Ha ha, "fast" is not the word I'd use to describe it. My first day on the roads here and I was in shock at the way I was getting cut off all the time.

Funny thing is when Melbournians go to Sydney, they think Sydney is bad. Maybe things have got worse there, don't know. I was an import without bias to either city, yet I've found Melbourne is atrocious and Sydney wasn't as bad by far. Maybe Sydney drivers have been used to a more congested and less organised/planned (zillions of one-ways, as the crow fly roads, etc) roads for a long time, and they've learned to just deal with it and not go crazy. I remember being in Sydney at 7.00 pm after work, stuck at a traffic light for 15 mins. Coming to Melbourne and the roads were much less congested yet so many drivers were incredibly aggressive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

I don't think that's possible. All gaskets were blown a long time ago LOL.

You know what, it's very interesting about Sydney vs Melbourne as far as aggressiveness goes. My first few years were in Sydney and I never noticed the level of aggressiveness there that I did when I came to Melbourne.

---

I have been in Melbourne for over eight years now. When I drive outside of Melbourne - even to the close-by cities like Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo, I have to keep reminding myself not to drive so aggressively. You need to drive aggressivley in Melbourne or you won't stand a chance.

Sydney is not so bad. Brisbane is casual and relaxed like a big country town by comparison to Melbourne. Adelaide is probably worse than Sydney but no where near as bad as Melbourne. I have driven in some of the largest cities in Asia and it is only in Melbourne that I feel as if I am taking my life into my own hands just by getting behind the wheel.

Cheers

Doug

Whilst I agree with Beefy about some driver attitudes, especially tailgating, I disagree with others.

In regard to freeway on ramps, the ones in my area are signposted as 80 k hence you must merge at that speed until you are on the freeway when it becomes 100 k. Don't blame drivers for obeying the law blame the law.

Lane hogging on freeways is another point, each lane is legally a separate road, so you don't need and often are not able to drive on the left lanes. Overtaking lanes are usually only on highways and only if so signposted.

Indicating on roundabouts is fine if it is a decent roundabout but with most roundabouts in the suburbs being only 1 or 2 metres in diameter I leave the indicator on. I fail to see any problems with that as only one car can be on such roundabouts at any time.

Peter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sturdee

Whilst I agree with Beefy about some driver attitudes, especially tailgating, I disagree with others.

In regard to freeway on ramps, the ones in my area are signposted as 80 k hence you must merge at that speed until you are on the freeway when it becomes 100 k. Don't blame drivers for obeying the law blame the law.

Lane hogging on freeways is another point, each lane is legally a separate road, so you don't need and often are not able to drive on the left lanes. Overtaking lanes are usually only on highways and only if so signposted.

Indicating on roundabouts is fine if it is a decent roundabout but with most roundabouts in the suburbs being only 1 or 2 metres in diameter I leave the indicator on. I fail to see any problems with that as only one car can be on such roundabouts at any time.

Peter.

---

Fair enough, but you seem to be looking for the exceptions rather than the general stuff.

I don't expect people to break the law if the merging speed states a max of 80, and haven't said they should so you can't disagree with a statement I haven't made. I completely agree with you that the law needs changing in those cases. Forcing a merging speed of 80 onto a road with a speed limit of 100 is just typical of the stupidity we can get from our government. It's also in disagreement with the Victorian Road Rules book which tells you to accelerate to the same speed as the traffic you'll be merging with.

Maybe I'm using the wrong words and mean highway when I said freeway. I associate the word freeway with motorway, highway, etc so apologises if I'm using incorrect terms. But in general I'm talking about highways where we are supposed to keep left unless overtaking.

Fair call on tiny little roundabouts in built up housing areas, etc, but I'm talking about roundabouts in general which are normally bigger than that and leave plenty time/distance to change indicators and thus inform other road users. Like I say I have NEVER noticed anyone changing their indicator from right to left during a right turn to signal their intention that they will be leaving the roundabout at the next exit.

For everything I've said, if you look hard enough you'll easily be able to find exceptions to counteract what I've said. But generally speaking I hold to what I've said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Beefy, should you drive in Canberra you would completely blow all 16 gaskets.

This place is the absolute bees-knees of incompetence, ignorance, unthinking, tailgating, non-blinker-use, non-merging, speeding, puttering, red light running, dull-minded bumblers, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement, entitlement and entitlement.

As a Sydney driver, coming here was simply the most incredible experience I've ever had.

It's another world, entirely.

---

Is Chatswood a suburb of Canberra?

Most people treat suburban roundabouts as normal intersections. I'll only indicate left to exit from freeway roundabouts or ones with weird street angles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Most people treat suburban roundabouts as normal intersections. I'll only indicate left to exit from freeway roundabouts or ones with weird street angles

---

Freeway roundabouts? They must all be in the eastern suburbs. Another good reason not to cross the bridge. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doug3030

Freeway roundabouts? They must all be in the eastern suburbs. Another good reason not to cross the bridge. :rolleyes:

---

Highway. My bad...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker

Is Chatswood a suburb of Canberra?

---

:) Chatswood is an exception. There, the incompetence is catastrophic. I've seen people run over, people walk directly in front of cars, cars going into shop windows and even a couple of fights. I used to live in Neutral Bay and Mosman for 20 years and visited most weekends for shopping.

One thing with Sydney is, although people are fast and its very busy, but so is everyone. When you need to pull into the traffic from an off-street you are let in (NOT Canberra), if you need to merge you zipper together (NOT Canberra) and if you make a mistake you can quickly rectify without agro (NOT Canberra). Other abominable behaviours here are: people actively accelerate if you indicate to move into their lane to deliberately block you off; they utterly refuse to cooperate at on-ramps (they accelerate to match your velocity to force you behind them), they indicate WHEN they turn or move lanes (not before) and go through blatantly red lights at literally every intersection (I absolutely kid you not).

Here, if you are in a small car you are actively hassled. I see it first hand... I drive my black HSV and no one gives me stick, if I drive my MIL's little blue Mazda they are up my butt , pushing in and won't give way.

Sydney was rushed, but nobody was belligerent. There may have been rudeness borne of frustration, but in Canberra the roads are so empty, big and unused there is zero excuse for their behaviour other than being arseholes.

In response to an earlier post re vehicle Speedos not being allowed to be 100% accurate. That is not the case. Speedos are covered by ADR 18/03 which changed in July 2007 on all model vehicles and July 2006 on all new model vehicles.

It basically states that a vehicle cannot travel at a greater speed than indicated on the Speedo. The Speedo may show a speed greater than that being travelled by no more than 10% + 4Km/hr.
There is nothing in the rules to say it can’t be 100% accurate.

Previously an accuracy of +- 10% was required at speeds above 40km/hr.

The ADR also spells out tyre sizes, air pressure etc etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

people actively accelerate if you indicate to move into their lane to deliberately block you off

---

Which is why they have learned to:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by woodPixel

they indicate WHEN they turn or move lanes (not before)

---

Makes sense to me. I learned that the first week in Melbourne.

Red light running was not so bad in Canberra last time I was there (July) but when I was living there in the 1990's if I stopped at a red light people used to change lanes behind me to go through the red light.

How many of us acquaint ourselves with the driving regulations when we drive interstate?I guess like a lot of us I have'nt done so but merely stick to what I would deem to be as courteous as possible not always easy to do when you live in a State where all the bad habits on the road are evident.
Have not driven in central Melbourne with the requirement to pull over to the left to make a right hand turn ,but that is one that I am aware of as my sister drove us through the city there.
I do agree with the comments above regarding bad drivers ,like most of us we have seen it very evident.Intolerance & bad manners, a need to be somewhere yesterday without timely planning is given over to ignorance of any other road user once some personas hop behind a steering wheel of a vehicle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Saxton

Have not driven in central Melbourne with the requirement to pull over to the left to make a right hand turn ,but that is one that I am aware of as my sister drove us through the city there.

---

Our famous hook turns, whilst they scare of interstaters they make absolute sense to us. It is to stop trams being held up by drivers wanting to turn right in front of trams.

There are quite a number of different road laws between Victoria and other states and it is always wise to acquaint yourself with other states road laws.

Peter

We've recently got ourselves a cute little 1500cc car for fuel economy and we're loving the hugely reduced petrol costs. Our Territory hardly gets used now. Got to say I've also noticed the cowardly acts of drivers tailgating more when I'm in this little car vs the Territory. We went to the Great Ocean Road a few days ago and got tailgates a lot around the suburbs near the Ferry terminal. I committed the big sin of travelling at the speed limit LOL. I deal with these jerks by slowing down at least 10 Ks and making it very obvious I'm looking at them in my mirror. Anyway the road rules book does say that when tailgated you should slow down for safety. Lots of times they then back off once its clicked with them what I'm doing. Little car with angry scowling male driver.

I recommend using reverse psychology when merging onto a packed crawling highway in peak hour. I've found when you make it obvious you are waiting for the kindness of another driver to let you in, someone normally does. Their's often a few selfish dicks that won't help you but in the end someone sees you are making zero attempt to push in and they open up a gap for you. I wind my window down afterwards and gesture a thanks. If only we could gravitate to this a little more.

It doesn't seem to work so good with overtaking though. When I lived in Singapore some drivers had this really dumb mentality called "Kiasu". If a driver overtook you, or pulled in front of you, etc, etc, they had "won". Never thought I'd see such stupidity in a supposedly civilised western country. There's countless times I've pulled out to overtake a driver doing say 90-95 Ks. As I overtake them I notice I'm not getting anywhere yet I'm at 100. I go up to 105 and still I'm not gaining. So up to 110 and I manage to get past them. Finally I pull back in the lane and reduce speed to 100. Now they start dropping behind me so obviously they sped up when I started to overtake and only reduce speed afterwards once they've enjoyed screwing me for no reason. So this ridiculous Kiasu is alive and strong here. I really don't understand what the f*&k is wrong with a lot of people. We live in a wonderful country and yet so many are angry and confrontational and wanting to screw each other for the sake of it.

Then our wonderful government puts that infuriating advert on TV, showing a driver giving abuse to another driver, while his kid is sitting in the back seat observing it all. Problem is a lot of the time the driver giving the abuse is the victim, and he's venting off because of the relentless crap that gets thrown at him every day. I'm one of those frustrated drivers. It probably makes the good drivers spit the dummy when our government basically tells us to stay calm and civil while Mr Hoon repeatedly rams us up the bum bum. Wonderful solution using taxpayers money for ads that say, "don't be like that", instead of tackling the real problem. The police force could have plain cars all over the place collecting fines for generally bad/aggressive driving. I'm sure it would pay for the costs. If drivers knew these cops were out doing this I reckon we'd see a big difference in a relatively short time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

We've recently got ourselves a cute little 1500cc car... got tailgates a lot... I committed the big sin of travelling at the speed limit...

---

Have you checked the speedo against a GPS? Took wife's new Golf for a run and had people passing us constantly. Checked the speedo and it's fully 7kms/hr off. Speedo says 100, we're doing 93.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by matt_s

Have you checked the speedo against a GPS? Took wife's new Golf for a run and had people passing us constantly. Checked the speedo and it's fully 7kms/hr off. Speedo says 100, we're doing 93.

---

Yep, in my car when I am doing 100 km/h by the GPS the speedo reads 109. But that is legal (can read lower by up to 10% plus 4 km/h - you can have your speedo reading 100 and actually be doing 86 and the speedo is within the tolerances.) That standard came in a few years ago. Cars I had prior to the standard generally had a speedo which was out by reading under, so the speedo could read 100 and I could have actually been doing 110 in an older car. Speedo is legal but you still get booked for it.

Is it any wonder drivers get frustrated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beefy

There's countless times I've pulled out to overtake a driver doing say 90-95 Ks. As I overtake them I notice I'm not getting anywhere yet I'm at 100. I go up to 105 and still I'm not gaining. So up to 110 and I manage to get past them. Finally I pull back in the lane and reduce speed to 100. Now they start dropping behind me so obviously they sped up when I started to overtake and only reduce speed afterwards once they've enjoyed screwing me for no reason. So this ridiculous Kiasu is alive and strong here. I really don't understand what the f*&k is wrong with a lot of people. We live in a wonderful country and yet so many are angry and confrontational and wanting to screw each other for the sake of it.

---

I often find when driving on the open highway there will be a vehicle going along at 90 km/h or so - until you get to an overtaking lane where you think you can finally get past them. As soon as you get onto the overtaking lane they speed up to 110 and stay there until you can't pass them any more then drop back to 90 again. Happens all the time.

Rob, I've never driven in Texas, but I'd be interested in hearing your comments on LA driving. I'd never driven in the USA before this year, but a few Americans had warned me about LA driving, so I wasn't looking forward to navigating my way in an unfamiliar car, to LA Int'l Airport during the evening peak hour.

Frankly, I found it far less terrifying than expected. Sure, it's fast, and the drivers sit close behind, but they'll let you change lanes, and I didn't notice any road rage. (Also, the roads are well signposted.)

Alex,

LA drivers can be extremely fast, particularly at peak commuting hours but as you observed they often know how to drive fast. I've found that you must be ready to go-with-the-flow or you'll be run down.

The major US coastal cities are all similar in that way. I remember driving on the DC beltway at about 85 mph at rush hour, my tires skipping and squealing on the pavement joints with surrounding cars so closely packed that they were literally within touching distance. If anybody had made a false move it would have been mayhem. It's likely that the demands of highway driving quickly weed out those whose skills aren't up to snuff. BTW, beware of cars bearing diplomatic plates in the DC area if you go, they don't have to obey the laws - diplomatic immunity.

Drivers in the major cities of Texas are also very fast but with the critical difference that many of them are extremely unskilled. We've also had a couple of road rage shootings recently in SA. The only place where I think drivers may be worse is Arizona.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rob streeper

BTW, beware of cars bearing diplomatic plates in the DC area if you go, they don't have to obey the laws - diplomatic immunity.

---

We get the same in Canberra, Rob